Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXVIII:

[mas0764]

Theodore isn't nearly as dynamic as DeAngelo and this comparison also shows why using percentiles for player comparisons is ridiculous and if you want to make a uniform scale standard scores will show you a much more accurate picture.

Player	P/60	G/60	A1/60	A2/60
DeAngelo	1.77	0.53	0.59	0.65
Theodore	1.01	0.43	0.1	0.48
Difference	75.25%	23.26%	490.00%	35.42%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Theodore is in the 92nd percentile for goals and DeAngelo in the 94th, a minuscule diefference right? Not at all, DeAngelo has scored at a 23% higher rate.

Vegas better be adding Glass to the deal if we are getting Theodore in return for DeAngelo. Funny how you have people drooling over Makar's impact in Calder/Fox discussions when DeAngelo is as good/dynamic offensively while having a more well rounded game (and being several years older).

Yeah, I was thinking maybe I didn't understand how good Theodore was, but that doesn't do much for me in a DeAngelo trade.

I was advocating for a scenario where we get a future #1 center in the deal -- the hypothetical was ADA for #2OA, which is, Stutzle or Byfield. Again, either of those guys are probably #1 centers on par with like a Zegras or better. And that proposal was shot down as not enough value due to uncertainty.

For Theodore? Is he a #1D? I don't know about that.

 

[Anthony5967]

Ya but we wasted a call up on Fogarty. He isn't a solution to offense if another top 6 forward goes down.

He's going to forecheck, battle on the boards, and give you a whopping handful of minutes. They're not calling Kravtsov up to play six minutes in a playoff push. Fogarty is the Pack captain and is experienced up here, at least.

 

[Anthony5967]

Trading DeAngelo for Theodore is ABSURD.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

He's going to forecheck, battle on the boards, and give you a whopping handful of minutes. They're not calling Kravtsov up to play six minutes in a playoff push. Fogarty is the Pack captain and is experienced up here, at least.

This would be the ideal time to give Kravtsov some experience especially when his minutes would be limited. Could even slide him in on pp2 where we are gonna miss Chytil. Not saying its Kravtsov I would have called up but I'd have even taken Letteri over him due to his shot for the pp, not a fan of much that Fogarty does at the NHL level.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

KB's crusade to trade DeAngelo has gone from hilarious to sad.

What did he do to you?

 

[Leetch3]

Theodore isn't nearly as dynamic as DeAngelo and this comparison also shows why using percentiles for player comparisons is ridiculous and if you want to make a uniform scale standard scores will show you a much more accurate picture.

Player	P/60	G/60	A1/60	A2/60
DeAngelo	1.77	0.53	0.59	0.65
Theodore	1.01	0.43	0.1	0.48
Difference	75.25%	23.26%	490.00%	35.42%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Theodore is in the 92nd percentile for goals and DeAngelo in the 94th, a minuscule diefference right? Not at all, DeAngelo has scored at a 23% higher rate.

Vegas better be adding Glass to the deal if we are getting Theodore in return for DeAngelo. Funny how you have people drooling over Makar's impact in Calder/Fox discussions when DeAngelo is as good/dynamic offensively while having a more well rounded game (and being several years older).

no complaints about getting glass too lol

 

[Anthony5967]

This would be the ideal time to give Kravtsov some experience especially when his minutes would be limited. Could even slide him in on pp2 where we are gonna miss Chytil. Not saying its Kravtsov I would have called up but I'd have even taken Letteri over him due to his shot for the pp, not a fan of much that Fogarty does at the NHL level.

I want Gauthier on the PP for Chytil.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I still think Nils is like a gazillion times more likely to get moved for a now player than DeAngelo is.

He's going to have a ton of appeal across the board, whether it be for rebuilding teams or teams up against the cap who may need a quality bottom pair option in the immediate-not to distant future.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

teams up against the cap who may need a quality bottom pair option in the immediate-not to distant future.

Is this not the Rangers though? If Fox and DeAngelo command what we all are expecting?

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Theodore is a significantly better defensive player than DeAngelo, locked into an outstanding contract ($5.2MM AAV for 5 more years after this one), and an excellent offensive player in his own right. And oh by the way, he's 6'2", 195 lbs.

By no means should the team be trading DeAngelo "just to trade him", but a deal centered around a guy like Theodore is precisely the sort of thing I mean when I mention "rationalizing assets" in regards to the team's roster construction, and specifically the glut on RD.



Also, he spells "Shea" correctly.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Is this not the Rangers though? If Fox and DeAngelo command what we all are expecting?

We have so much money coming off of the books over the next 2 years. We should be looking to keep our best players, not move them unless we have no other choice.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Lundqvist is not here. You cannot realistically start to have a discussion and include him when he has yet to step a toe on North American ice.

Can we start spelling his name correctly to avoid confusion?

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

We have so much money coming off of the books over the next 2 years. We should be looking to keep our best players, not move them unless we have no other choice.

I would agree that you should keep your best players but saying that there is so much money coming off the books feels like it's glazing over the fact that a good chunk of this roster are going to be up for a new contracts in the next 2 summers.

If some of these players are going to be as good as we think, they're not signing for chump change

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Also I didn't think it would happen to begin with, but there's like what, maybe a 5% chance now the cap goes up to somewhere in that 84 to 88 million range for next season.

As it was I thought that number was high, but now you have teams potentially playing regular season and/or playoff games to a fraction of the fans (or no fans) the rest of the season.

 

[Edge]

Theodore is a significantly better defensive player than DeAngelo, locked into an outstanding contract ($5.2MM AAV for 5 more years after this one), and an excellent offensive player in his own right. And oh by the way, he's 6'2", 195 lbs.

By no means should the team be trading DeAngelo "just to trade him", but a deal centered around a guy like Theodore is precisely the sort of thing I mean when I mention "rationalizing assets" in regards to the team's roster construction, and specifically the glut on RD.



Also, he spells "Shea" correctly.

And keeping in mind that some of this will be tied into how the Rangers approach balancing salaries and the roster as well.

Echoing what you said, it's not about trading ADA for the sake of trading him. The question was who is "most likely" to be traded if indeed we end up with a log jam at RD. And with ADA as one of the two most likely candidates, the question then becomes what type of deal the Rangers might be looking at, more or less. Theodore is a name that multiple people have suggested, and I think it's definitely in the neighborhood.

I'm reiterating all of this to head-off people getting very worked up about something that is more of a point of illustration than an actual rumor.

 

[Raspewtin]

Theodore is a significantly better defensive player than DeAngelo, locked into an outstanding contract ($5.2MM AAV for 5 more years after this one), and an excellent offensive player in his own right. And oh by the way, he's 6'2", 195 lbs.

By no means should the team be trading DeAngelo "just to trade him", but a deal centered around a guy like Theodore is precisely the sort of thing I mean when I mention "rationalizing assets" in regards to the team's roster construction, and specifically the glut on RD.



Also, he spells "Shea" correctly.

should use relative stats because VGK have been by far the best statistical team since the new year.

 

[True Blue]

KB's crusade to trade DeAngelo has gone from hilarious to sad.

What did he do to you?

You know. Logjam due to someone skating in Sweden.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I would agree that you should keep your best players but saying that there is so much money coming off the books feels like it's glazing over the fact that a good chunk of this roster are going to be up for a new contracts in the next 2 summers.

If some of these players are going to be as good as we think, they're not signing for chump change

Right, but the contracts we have coming up are pretty big ones too.

Regardless, I don't think the Rangers moved Skjei with the intention of moving DeAngelo.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Right, but the contracts we have coming up are pretty big ones too.

Regardless, I don't think the Rangers moved Skjei with the intention of moving DeAngelo.

I guess we'll see. I'm not as convinced

If DeAngelo doesn't sign long term this summer, I think it's a coin flip between him and Lundkvist being moved within the next 18 months

 

[True Blue]

For Theodore? Is he a #1D? I don't know about that.

See, that you can talk me into. Pair Theodore up with Trouba and there's your top pairing. Then comes Fox and Lindgren. Werenksi...Theodore.....those are names that I would view as fitting a return profile for DeAngelo; one that does not push back competing and has merit for the way the team is to be built long term.

 

[True Blue]

Regardless, I don't think the Rangers moved Skjei with the intention of moving DeAngelo.

I think that he was moved to help with Kreider's pay and to create space for DeAngelo's salary

 

[Tawnos]

should use relative stats because VGK have been by far the best statistical team since the new year.

Didn't look at anything except CF% Rel, but Theodore is 7th among D with 400+ minutes played. DeAngelo is 45th.

Fox is 1st.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Can we start spelling his name correctly to avoid confusion?

Some people can’t even spell Staal or Stepan. I think you’re asking too much.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Didn't look at anything except CF% Rel, but Theodore is 7th among D with 400+ minutes played. DeAngelo is 45th.

Fox is 1st.

45th while carrying Staal.

Look at his numbers with and with out Staal (and vice versa.) Marc is dragging him down significantly.

 

[Edge]

Right, but the contracts we have coming up are pretty big ones too.

Regardless, I don't think the Rangers moved Skjei with the intention of moving DeAngelo.

Keep in mind that if the Rangers moved ADA, it will likely be for a very good player, and thus a significant salary as well. So ADA being moved wouldn't be a cap clearing move (though it might result in a slightly lower returning salary). It would be about spreading salaries out.

The Rangers expressed significant interest in upgrading their LD position at the TDL. If that holds true, it's possible they could (eventually) prefer to flip ADA's budget to the left side, knowing they can back-fill the RD position with a top prospect on an entry level contract.

That approach could be preferable to moving Lundkvist and then taking on a salary at LD.