Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXVII: It's the Final Countdown

[EpicDing]

What difference does a degree make in this scenario? Seriously, a degree in like 'business' or whatever goes about as far in America as a GED ten years ago. Miller would take the 2.7mil he'd racked up as a player and put that to work.

And without that business degree that's only worth a GED you're only finding slightly above minimum wage jobs in data entry or retail. It's worth giving himself as much of a head start as he can. Would I like to see him sign? Of course, but he still needs to set himself up for life after hockey.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

What difference does a degree make in this scenario? Seriously, a degree in like 'business' or whatever goes about as far in America as a GED ten years ago. Miller would take the 2.7mil he'd racked up as a player and put that to work.

If he was forced into retirement early due to injuries (we will say at the end of his ELC). He wouldnt have anywhere near that much money. He'll likely be starting in the AHL where his pay will likely be sub $100K. He'll lose close to 40% from taxes and agent fees.

But say he jumps right into the NHL. He'll lose that 40% to taxes and agent fees (if not more). That $2.7MM is now $1.7MM. That's not enough to live the rest of your life on at 24 years old.

It's his own life and he can do whatever he wants, we can only hope he has a solid circle of people advising him.

Depending on your industry a undergraduate degree in that field hold much more value then a GED or high school degree. If you wanted to way the opportunity cost if you had to foot the bill for your college degree that's another story.

Then there is always trade work where one can make a very good living without a college degree.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

There were a few articles calling Neal the cream of the crop Ong unsigned defensemen that year.

Not to diminish your prediction, but that was a publicized view.

Yeah I guess I'm just more referring to pundits talking about Aston-Reese and Veechione as the real prizes, when it was clearly Pionk

 

[TheDirtyH]

2.7m? Okay. Let's go with that, because that's the money from his ELC, right?

Each year of that ELC, assuming Miller spends all 3 years in the NHL and gets paid the full $832,500 base salary, he pays $138k in escrow, $40 in agent fees, $316k in tax, leaving him with a net income of $430k a year for 3 years.

That's assuming the agent fees are only 5% and escrow at 15%

Is that enough to live on, and put enough money aside to "make it work"?

lol. I know you're not from America, so this may shock you: 430k a year for three years is more than many many many many (most), people make in a lifetime. The median household income is like 33k -- 58k here.

Yes, it's very much enough.

 

[Leetch3]

2.7m? Okay. Let's go with that, because that's the money from his ELC, right?

Each year of that ELC, assuming Miller spends all 3 years in the NHL and gets paid the full $832,500 base salary, he pays $138k in escrow, $40 in agent fees, $316k in tax, leaving him with a net income of $430k a year for 3 years.

That's assuming the agent fees are only 5% and escrow at 15%

Is that enough to live on, and put enough money aside to "make it work"?

and thats only if he's in the NHL for the full year...he'll make like $70k in the AHL

 

[EpicDing]

lol. I know you're not from America, so this may shock you: 430k a year for three years is more than many many many many (most), people make in a lifetime. The median household income is like 33k -- 58k here.

Yes, it's very much enough.

It's not enough to live the rest of your life off of after getting that for 3 years, which is the point AK was making.

 

[TheDirtyH]

If he was forced into retirement early due to injuries (we will say at the end of his ELC). He wouldnt have anywhere near that much money. He'll likely be starting in the AHL where his pay will likely be sub $100K. He'll lose close to 40% from taxes and agent fees.

But say he jumps right into the NHL. He'll lose that 40% to taxes and agent fees (if not more). That $2.7MM is now $1.7MM. That's not enough to live the rest of your life on at 24 years old.

It's his own life and he can do whatever he wants, we can only hope he has a solid circle of people advising him.

Depending on your industry a undergraduate degree in that field hold much more value then a GED or high school degree. If you wanted to way the opportunity cost if you had to foot the bill for your college degree that's another story.

Then there is always trade work where one can make a very good living without a college degree.

You guys are mixing principles with pragmatics. At 24, with a million or more dollars already banked, without substantial student loan debt, KAndre is set up better than 90% of people with a college degree.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

You guys are mixing principles with pragmatics. At 24, with a million or more dollars already banked, without substantial student loan debt, KAndre is set up better than 90% of people with a college degree.

I would agree with this

You're not set for life by any means, but you have an incredibly good foundation to build on assuming you're smart (or have smart people guiding you)

 

[TheDirtyH]

It's not enough to live the rest of your life off of after getting that for 3 years, which is the point AK was making.

Yes, but in reality, those dollars are worth much much more than a college degree. The lionization of the degree is silly. What matters most in securing future earnings is past earnings, the degree is almost meaningless. Like, if he were 24, with a college degree, he would be, like most graduates, set up to jump into a part-time, minimum wage service industry job. What would be different for him would be the absence of loan payments, the MILLION dollars in his Bank Account, and his professional network / experience which would be much more extensive than the vast majority of not just 24 yos, but Americans period.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I still think it would be silly to throw a school year away to play a couple months in Hartford, I'm really doubtful they would be so blind to throw him into a playoff race in the NHL.

 

[RGY]

Yes, but in reality, those dollars are worth much much more than a college degree. The lionization of the degree is silly. What matters most in securing future earnings is past earnings, the degree is almost meaningless. Like, if he were 24, with a college degree, he would be, like most graduates, set up to jump into a part-time, minimum wage service industry job. What would be different for him would be the absence of loan payments, the MILLION dollars in his Bank Account, and his professional network / experience which would be much more extensive than the vast majority of not just 24 yos, but Americans period.

What Professional / Network experience? Because he played hockey? The least liked of the 4 major sports in America? Because the NHL is just going to be offering jobs to a hypothetically failed prospect who never made it, regardless of the reasons, over other failed prospects?

This kid already doesnt value school. At 24, with no degree, his only experience playing a sport, where is he going with the $1.7 million? Which by the way, not sure what state you live in, but that money will disappear pretty fast.

What a degree often does is get your foot in the door to an interview in the field your prefer to work in. As opposed to settling for whatever field will take you and hating it the rest of your life. Or being just content with it at first but hating it over time because you had to work twice as hard.

Let’s say he decides to go back to school. He certainly will have the money to finish his education. But that is no easy task either. The last time he had been in school, he was taking online courses because for him school was just a means to get to the NHL. Hopefully. He is now going to all the sudden find the drive to finish after years away from something he already didnt care for?


Like Kreider had done, for his sake, I hope he finishes his education and gets his degree while he is playing so that there is one less thing to have to even weigh or consider should hockey not workout. He’ll have his degree and then can either decide to find an industry to work in or find a passion for something and go for his Masters.

 

[True Blue]

you do not need an education to succeed in life. Some of the most successful people I know have 0. He should choose hockey and with that experience he will have enough for life after hockey.

Need? No. But it certainly helps you. Far more success comes from getting an education and a degree than not.

 

[Edge]

Not necessarily interested in diving into the college degree debate, or Miller's academic interests, but the single biggest factor in this debate is the one that was touched upon by a few posters such as @Leetch3 - and that's whether a player makes it to the NHL or not.

If he they can get even few years of full-time work in the NHL, it gives them a decent cushion. They'd still have to work toward a sustainable future, but it gives them a decent head start.

If they don't make it to the NHL, and wash out in the AHL, that hill becomes significantly steeper. Especially once you consider taxes and other expenses.

The gamble for any young player leaving school early to play hockey is how quickly they can get to the NHL, and stay there for a while. That's the difference between being 24 years old with a million in the bank, or being 24 with $80K in the bank.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Miller shouldnt play in the nhl this year, he isn't ready and we have other guys like Hajek that can fill in for now.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

lol. I know you're not from America, so this may shock you: 430k a year for three years is more than many many many many (most), people make in a lifetime. The median household income is like 33k -- 58k here.

Yes, it's very much enough.

That's IF he plays in the NHL for 3 full years. Is it enough to live of for the rest of your life? Because that's what was suggested. All I am saying is that there's a good reason for Miller to graduate. To have a backup plan. Higher touted prospects have earned less than their ELC max.

 

[TheDirtyH]

What Professional / Network experience? Because he played hockey? The least liked of the 4 major sports in America? Because the NHL is just going to be offering jobs to a hypothetically failed prospect who never made it, regardless of the reasons, over other failed prospects?

This kid already doesnt value school. At 24, with no degree, his only experience playing a sport, where is he going with the $1.7 million? Which by the way, not sure what state you live in, but that money will disappear pretty fast.

What a degree often does is get your foot in the door to an interview in the field your prefer to work in. As opposed to settling for whatever field will take you and hating it the rest of your life. Or being just content with it at first but hating it over time because you had to work twice as hard.

Let’s say he decides to go back to school. He certainly will have the money to finish his education. But that is no easy task either. The last time he had been in school, he was taking online courses because for him school was just a means to get to the NHL. Hopefully. He is now going to all the sudden find the drive to finish after years away from something he already didnt care for?


Like Kreider had done, for his sake, I hope he finishes his education and gets his degree while he is playing so that there is one less thing to have to even weigh or consider should hockey not workout. He’ll have his degree and then can either decide to find an industry to work in or find a passion for something and go for his Masters.

This is the point right here. He literally doesn't find school interesting and his preferred field of work IS SPORTS.

It's honestly amazing to witness you shrug off participating in a multi-billion dollar professional industry like it belongs under the 'hobbies and interests' section on your linkedin--meanwhile, $1.7 MILLION DOLLARS, is like allowance for 2 years.

Degrees matter insofar as you have no means of otherwise establishing yourself in a professional capacity. This notion that K'Andre's life would be appreciably improved 'after hockey' by virtue of his having a degree is ridiculous. It relies on so many patently debunked ideas about what a degree means both in a socio-economic context and a personal one. It's 2020 not 1960--if K'Andre's hockey career was tragically cut short by injuries or what have you, he would still be in a better position than the vast majority of people in this country.

Would he live the most fulfilling life he could? Would he live like a multi-millionaire for the rest of his life? If those are the big questions facing getting a degree or not, it just emphasizes how pointless the degree is. If your degree doesn't matter to you aside from 'industry' why would a job in that industry be fulfilling to you? And if the point of his getting a degree is to make sure he can provide for himself for the rest of his life, than a degree is hardly necessary to make that happen considering his earnings to that point as well as the professional (yes) network he's inscribed within. Will he live like a king? that's beside the point. Not many do, college degree or not.

 

[Ola]

Couldn’t a player like Miller take his entire AHL salary, bet against HFD a few games in a row and score a few own goals in those games and become rich?

 

[TheDirtyH]

If I were K'Andre and I were that worried about my future earnings, I'd be inquiring about some of my teammates' sisters (or brothers) since professional hockey as a whole represents an enormous concentration of wealthy people. Marriage remains a much more secure and unequivocal means of wealth than a degree.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I were K'Andre and I were that worried about my future earnings, I'd be inquiring about some of my teammates' sisters (or brothers) since professional hockey is as a whole represents an enormous concentration of wealth. Marriage remains a much more secure and unequivocal means of wealth than a degree.

I can't tell if all of your posts are serious or satire. It's entertaining though.

 

[Ola]

So who would do Sergachev and Gourde for Nils Lundkvist and Kravtsov?

Strome to Minny for Greenway and a 2nd

Hank retires, buy-out Staal and Smith.

Kreider-Ziba-Buch
Panarin-Gourde-Kakko
Greenway-Chytil-Gauthier
Lemieux-Howden-Fast
Sergachev-Trouba
Lindgren-Fox
Hajak-TDA
Shesty
Geo

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

So who would do Sergachev and Gourde for Nils Lundkvist and Kravtsov?

Strome to Minny for Greenway and a 2nd

Hank retires, buy-out Staal and Smith.

Kreider-Ziba-Buch
Panarin-Gourde-Kakko
Greenway-Chytil-Gauthier
Lemieux-Howden-Fast
Sergachev-Trouba
Lindgren-Fox
Hajak-TDA
Shesty
Geo

No interest in Gourde. 28 years old having a down year. Rather keep Strome at least we know he has chemistry with Panarin. Hes younger as well then Gourde and would cost the same.

Sergachev is also going to need a decent raise this summer.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Offersheeting Cirelli is something I could get behind. Obviously wouldn't give him an AAV that would require a 1st round pick, but Tampa needs to clear money somehow if they want to keep their team mostly in tact

 

[bobbop]

I just checked this thread and for a minute, I thought it was August.

 

[mas0764]

2.7m? Okay. Let's go with that, because that's the money from his ELC, right?

Each year of that ELC, assuming Miller spends all 3 years in the NHL and gets paid the full $832,500 base salary, he pays $138k in escrow, $40 in agent fees, $316k in tax, leaving him with a net income of $430k a year for 3 years.

That's assuming the agent fees are only 5% and escrow at 15%

Is that enough to live on, and put enough money aside to "make it work"?

The counter argument to me is that you have to strike while the iron is hot in terms of making real money, though.

Just one contract from the NHL, even from the AHL, would be more than you would make in many years of regular employment, or even a lifetime, of work with a "degree." Even many doctors and lawyers these days do not make 6 figures for many years, sometimes ever, after school. It's no guarantee that a student athlete, especially one who is already not academically inclined like Miller, would make a boat load of money with whatever degree he pursues.

You always have to be smart with your money in whatever you do, but if you can get an ELC now, and that's $2.7m guaranteed, as you said, that's $430 a year for 3 years, meaning $1.2m - and that's after tax by your numbers. Still, that's way more than ten years of income for most people with a "degree." For a lot of them, it's more than twenty years of income with a degree. For people without a degree it may be more than a lifetime of income.

Take that $1.2m and set some aside. If the hockey career takes off, great, you've won the lottery. If not, go back to school, pay for your education with $100k of that money, and enjoy your free extra million dollars and a lifetime of memories.

But if you dogmatically stay in school because "degrees are important" and you blow out your knee, well, you just lost a lot of money that you'll never recoup. Whereas the education can be acquired later if you get the money up front.

So I'd never presume to tell someone who chooses to forego a degree for a big contract that they are making the wrong move. The wrong move would be not saving for the future if their sports career doesn't pan out.

 

[mas0764]

Incredibly shortsighted.

And who are you to say his hockey experience will be enough for life after it? What experience is that? What if that experience is being a middling player who shuffles between the NHL and AHL for 7-8 years? Sure he probably makes enough money to pay for college if he wants to go back or to own a home and get by for the first few years after he has retired but then what? He is just going to find a career like the select few people who you know that were fortunate? And he is going to do it starting at age 27-28 with no actual work experience in the industries he applies to (likely sales) hoping to be hired over someone who has?

Hockey is not everything.

I don't think potential employers are gonna hold it against him that he would be "joining the work force" a few years after a 22 year old. First of all, if he doesn't have to join the work force till 28, that means he has a good number of minimum-salary ELC and NHL salary years floating him.... at nearly a million a year, he's probably got some savings, that should be invested and working for him. Starting with even a hundred grand at that age in a 401k or other retirement account, he's gonna be a millionaire many times over by time he's 50 or 60 years old, even if he works a very meager job going forward.

Secondly, again, starting a new career path under 30 years old is not something employers are likely to hold against him. When you are 40 or 50, yeah, employers don't love that. At 27, he might even be an asset to an employer cause he will have more maturity than many of the young-20's he is competing against.

And furthermore, we cannot discount the fact that if you list professional sports on a resume, you have an instant edge as well.

Professional athletes have a world of opportunities at their disposal that us regular folks do not have and can barely understand, sometimes. It's why a lot of these ex-athletes end up millionaire businessmen once they retire: Everyone wants to be in business with them because they have the air of pro sports circulating around them.