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Speculation: Roster Building Thread XIII

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If the Blues want Buch I would ask for no less than ROR. Maybe Buch + Jones for ROR and a good pick. Would be the perfect 2C.
 
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egelband said:
I think Buch is worth more than that, honestly. What are the odds the number eight pick becomes as good as Buch? Serious question, is the average eighth overall as good as Buch? I kind of doubt it. But considering it’s also a bit of a crapshoot, I would want more than the 8. Maybe Buch and 15 (or a later pick) for a legit center prospect and 8?
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The #8 pick in this year's draft isn't worth Buch. Would you trade Buch for Lias Andersson? Because essentially that's the equivalent. It's a real crapshoot after the 3rd pick. If we are trading Buch, I want a more sure bet. I don't want a lottery ticket. If we traded Buch. It would be for an established player and a pick. Or a pick that would go in, say, an Eichel trade. But that seems like poor asset Management if we're only getting once piece for Buch that is getting moved to Buffalo with at least 3 other pieces.
 
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Everyone calling Danault an offensive black hole...

Sidney Crosby's 5v5 points/per 60 1.83
Ryan O'Reilly's 5v5 points/per 60 1.85
Phillip Danault's 5v5 points/per 60 1.77

That's good for 53rd among centers.

He had the 14th most PP minutes of any Montreal forward at only 19 seconds per game.
Used as a 2C with PP time and a role that isn't purely shut-down focused, Danault can score 50+ points and has already had 47 and 53 point seasons.​

If the cost to lock him up is 5.5M as reported, I move Strome and do that immediately. Play Danault with Panarin and give him PP time and he's putting up points. He's been used in a purely shutdown role with no PP time in Montreal. Strome will cost at least 1-1.5M more to lock up and the upgrade from Danault to Strome in every other aspect of the game is substantial.

Edit: By the way, Ryan Strome's 5v5 points/per 60 1.84 playing with Panarin, whose 5v5 pts/per 60 is 3.06, good for third in the league. Danault is a downgrade of .07 for superior grit, physicality, faceoffs, defense, penalty killing, etc. Just winning the draw on the PP will get him more points lol

Strome played 3:14 on the PP per game last year. Danault played 0:19.

Strome scored 18 points on the PP, 29 at EV.

Danault scored 0 points on the PP, 23 at EV.

Danault PK 2:20 per game regular season/2:46 playoffs.

Strome was 43% on faceoffs. Danault was 53%.

We all know Danault is the better two way player, faceoff man, penalty killer, etc. 6 points of production at EV is marginal. Panarin changes a lot. The full 3 minutes of PP time Strome had over Danault is a big deal. And Danault actually winning possession on PP faceoffs would be a big deal. Zib on one wing, Kreider on the other, Fox and Panarin at the point. Winning the draw and getting set up on the PP would get Danault PP points off that alone.


Last year Ryan Strome had 40 EV points playing with Panarin. Danault had 43 EV points. The difference was Strome had 18 PP points while playing 2:57 per game on the man advantage.
 
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Oscar Lindberg said:
Frankly if the Rangers can get Kyrou and a second I would consider that a win
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Buch is likely worth more than that this year. A mid 2nd round pick this year is like a 3rd or 4th round pick in a normal year with a full development season and robust in person scouting. This year is like playing bingo moreso than any other year. The value of a mid-late 2nd rounder is debatable. If Buch was an UFA and this was a deadline move, then Kyrou and this year's 1st or next year's 2nd might work. But with 1 year of control and a possible extension, Buch needs to be traded for an equivalent asset. First line wing, top 6 center, etc. Kyrou is developing though, I will admit that. I just don't know that he's the player we need for our team right now. We need centers or players that can be flipped to acquire one. I would not use Buch to lure a depth forward or depth D. that's a waste at this time.
 
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gravey9 said:
The #8 pick in this year's draft isn't worth Buch. Would you trade Buch for Lias Andersson? Because essentially that's the equivalent. It's a real crapshoot after the 3rd pick. If we are trading Buch, I want a more sure bet. I don't want a lottery ticket. If we traded Buch. It would be for an established player and a pick. Or a pick that would go in, say, an Eichel trade. But that seems like poor asset Management if we're only getting once piece for Buch that is getting moved to Buffalo with at least 3 other pieces.
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I wouldn't trade him for Lias, but I'd trade him for Nick Suzuki, who also could have been picked at our spot in 2017. Just because the wrong player was picked in a spot doesn't mean their isn't a right or better player to be picked or can be picked in a draft going forward.
 
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duhmetreE said:
Thomas actually has a great shot
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Yes, he does need to shoot more and learn to create space for himself to get his shot off but there’s a lot to like in his game. I believe he played through a wrist injury last year but he has speed, can play a two way game and his transition game is sexy.
 
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NYR Viper said:
Say the Rangers acquire a 1st from St Louis, that gives them (2) 1st's this year at around the mid-point in the 1st round. How much more would need to be added to get #2...
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I can't see Seattle dropping down that far, but going by the Draft Sim trade function, #2 is worth 40,000, #15 is worth 12,400 and #16 is worth 11,600. That's a total of 24,000, so we'd still need to add something significant. If we can also acquire the 11th overall pick (worth 16,000) we are golden.
 
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TheBloodyNine said:
I wouldn't trade him for Lias, but I'd trade him for Nick Suzuki, who also could have been picked at our spot in 2017. Just because the wrong player was picked in a spot doesn't mean their isn't a right or better player to be picked or can be picked in a draft going forward.
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If the Rangers knew Nick Suzuki would become what he is, they would have taken him. Hence why it's a crapshoot
 
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Uninstaaled said:
Kyrou would be great, but I don't see it.

I think Thomas is for sure attainable though.
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So we are selling high on a guy to buy thomas or kyrou on a low? There better be some big time adds to this deal if im sending Buch to either Nashville or Blues.

SHIT, ill send buch our 15th and jones for ROR. Other than that.. i have no real interest in either Nash or Blues as a trade partner
 
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TheBloodyNine said:
I wouldn't trade him for Lias, but I'd trade him for Nick Suzuki, who also could have been picked at our spot in 2017. Just because the wrong player was picked in a spot doesn't mean their isn't a right or better player to be picked or can be picked in a draft going forward.
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Yes, but with limited viewing of prospects this year and in a weaker draft class, you don't make this move unless you are really targeting a player and they are there RIGHT BEFORE the pick. I doubt there's anyone at 8 that will be there that is worth Buch. last year when Lundell was sitting there yes. This year -- the chances of landing an equivalent prospect to Nick Suzuki at 8 is a real crapshoot. And highly unlikely. Mason McTavish? Is he really going to be as good as Suzuki? I dunno.
 
UAGoalieGuy said:
Thomas, Sundqvist and 2nd

Or

Kyrou and a 2nd
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Thomas, Sundqvist and a second any day of the week. Especially given that I believe Thomas name has been floating around by the blues and not Kyrou’s

Trade for Larkin (assuming a package around Kravstov and the 15th)

Sign Nosek

sign a vet left d or trade for McNabb

Panarin Larkin Kakko
Lafrieniere Zibby Thomas
Krieder Chytil Goodrow
Barron Nosek Sundqvist

Lindgren Fox
Miller Trouba
McNabb Lundkvist

Shesty
 
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TheBloodyNine said:
The Rangers liked Suzuki at this pick, just made the wrong choice. Doesn't mean much or make my point any less valid.
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actually it does make your point less valid. Buch is a surefire first line wing or top 6 forward on any team in the league right now.

Nick Suzuki wasn't just passed up by the Rangers and others, he was then traded by the team that drafted him. The draft is a crapshoot. Prospect evaluation is limited this year. Almost everyone drafted outside the top 2 will be going back to Juniors/Europe for a few years. The pick likely doesn't become a true impact player for 5 years from the moment they're drafted. We need to open our window in the next year or two. This is bad asset management unless the pick is HIGHLY valued by a team who is looking to trade a current NHL impact player for said pick.
 
Loki Dog 74 said:
Everyone calling Danault an offensive black hole...

Sidney Crosby's 5v5 points/per 60 1.83
Ryan O'Reilly's 5v5 points/per 60 1.85
Phillip Danault's 5v5 points/per 60 1.77

That's good for 53rd among centers.

He had the 14th most PP minutes of any Montreal forward at only 19 seconds per game.
Used as a 2C with PP time and a role that isn't purely shut-down focused, Danault can score 50+ points and has already had 47 and 53 point seasons.​

If the cost to lock him up is 5.5M as reported, I move Strome and do that immediately. Play Danault with Panarin and give him PP time and he's putting up points. He's been used in a purely shutdown role with no PP time in Montreal. Strome will cost at least 1-1.5M more to lock up and the upgrade from Danault to Strome in every other aspect of the game is substantial.

Edit: By the way, Ryan Strome's 5v5 points/per 60 1.84 playing with Panarin, whose 5v5 pts/per 60 is 3.06, good for third in the league. Danault is a downgrade of .07 for superior grit, physicality, faceoffs, defense, penalty killing, etc. Just winning the draw on the PP will get him more points lol
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What are his same numbers in the playoffs?
 
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gravey9 said:
actually it does make your point less valid. Buch is a surefire first line wing or top 6 forward on any team in the league right now.

Nick Suzuki wasn't just passed up by the Rangers and others, he was then traded by the team that drafted him. The draft is a crapshoot. Prospect evaluation is limited this year. Almost everyone drafted outside the top 2 will be going back to Juniors/Europe for a few years. The pick likely doesn't become a true impact player for 5 years from the moment they're drafted. We need to open our window in the next year or two. This is bad asset management unless the pick is HIGHLY valued by a team who is looking to trade a current NHL impact player for said pick.
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The point I'm making about Suzuki is that you can't look at X draft position and expect Y player every time - that's not how it works. And to your point about it being a crapshoot, that works the other way as well, where someone drafted 8th ends up being better than someone drafted before him.

And let's be clear here, I wouldn't trade him for just the 8th, but it would have to be a part of the package. And it really doesn't matter when they come in the league because in 3 or 4 years the Rangers are going to be competing and have many high priced salaries on their books that will make so they need to add low cost high talent young players to their team.
 
haveandare said:
What are his same numbers in the playoffs?
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Lower points per/60 but higher in the ranking for centers.

Also led all Montreal forwards in ice time despite playing even less PP time; only 7 seconds per game. Played even heavier PK minutes in the playoffs, and he was already first on the team.

Considering you have to get to the playoffs to have playoff stats and he's an upgrade on Strome in every area besides production, but their 5v5 production rates are similar (.07 drop) and Panarin would be his linemate, who ranks 3rd in the league in 5v5 production, plus giving him PP time which he saw less of than Laf/Kakko last year... I feel comfortable he could produce adequately while providing an upgrade in all other areas at a lower cap hit.

Strome played 3:14 on the PP per game last year. Danault played 0:19.

Strome scored 18 points on the PP, 29 at EV.

Danault scored 0 points on the PP, 23 at EV.

Danault PK 2:20 per game regular season/2:46 playoffs.

Strome was 43% on faceoffs. Danault was 53%.
 
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TheBloodyNine said:
The point I'm making about Suzuki is that you can't look at X draft position and expect Y player every time - that's not how it works. And to your point about it being a crapshoot, that works the other way as well, where someone drafted 8th ends up being better than someone drafted before him.

And let's be clear here, I wouldn't trade him for just the 8th, but it would have to be a part of the package. And it really doesn't matter when they come in the league because in 3 or 4 years the Rangers are going to be competing and have many high priced salaries on their books that will make so they need to add low cost high talent young players to their team.
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Just saying the #8 pick in this year's draft should not be the centerpiece of a Buch trade unless that pick is being flipped. OR the Rangers are really really keen on a specific draft target. That Lias trade was bad because we made the deal without knowing if we could actually draft our target.

The great thing about Buch is... he has tremendous value in a hockey trade. If we are moving him because we have redundancies then use him to fill another current need on the team. I don't want to be using up all of depth in prospects/young players/picks to plug all the deficiencies in the lineup.
 
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