Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[haohmaru]

This is a bit ambitious. Zib is more creative and a better shooter.

Chytil should really spend all his time working on his shot. He can settle in as a 30-30 player which is a massive win with a 21 oa pick.

Zibanejad's stats his first year in NY, at age 24, look remarkably similar to Chytil's this year.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I've seen them both benched for defensive miscues, while vets get a free pass. We all have. It happens consistently. At this point both of them play low-risk hockey because they end up getting benched when they don't. If you choose not to see it idk what to tell you.

Vets get benched for bad defense as well as other things. Did CK play the 4th line at times? That does not mean that Laf can not be creative. There is no master conspiracy among numerous coaches, GMs, etc to stop Laf from being creative. Did they all conspire to make him skate slower than others as well? I want Laf to succeed as much as anyone but just like Krav it is up to Laf to step up. I can't put the effort, training and desire in for him. He has to do it himself. Instead of posting himself drinking I'd love to see him posting clips of him skating 4 hours a day.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Zibanejad's stats his first year in NY, at age 24, look remarkably similar to Chytil's this year.

Scoring was lower then and he had a better overall skill set. Still does but that’s most of it between those 2 imo.

I think highly of Chytil but a #1 center he is not nor will he likely ever be. Would be glad to have him prove me wrong.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Zibanejad's stats his first year in NY, at age 24, look remarkably similar to Chytil's this year.

at a younger age.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Vets get benched for bad defense as well as other things. Did CK play the 4th line at times? That does not mean that Laf can not be creative. There is no master conspiracy among numerous coaches, GMs, etc to stop Laf from being creative. Did they all conspire to make him skate slower than others as well? I want Laf to succeed as much as anyone but just like Krav it is up to Laf to step up. I can't put the effort, training and desire in for him. He has to do it himself. Instead of posting himself drinking I'd love to see him posting clips of him skating 4 hours a day.

Gallant benched kakko and laf and chytil at times for defensive misplays. he would also sit the kids at key moments in games. Overload with the first line, and stuff like that.

One thing that stuck with me from lavi's press conference is that the kids need to feel like they're counted on by the team, that they're part of the core of the team. That the team depends on them.
And he's entirely correct. You have to show some level of faith in them, and give them a real opportunity.
I know that when you look at their pure counting stats their production has been disappointing for a 1/2 overall picks. But last year I thought both of them had solid years for what they were given in terms of time.
Kakko and laf both coming near 40 points at even strength with the amount of time they were given is a fairly good year.

I dont want to say that they're finished developing because they're not, but I think if you start feeding them some legit power play time, they're going to explode.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Gallant benched kakko and laf and chytil at times for defensive misplays. he would also sit the kids at key moments in games. Overload with the first line, and stuff like that.

One thing that stuck with me from lavi's press conference is that the kids need to feel like they're counted on by the team, that they're part of the core of the team. That the team depends on them.
And he's entirely correct. You have to show some level of faith in them, and give them a real opportunity.
I know that when you look at their pure counting stats their production has been disappointing for a 1/2 overall picks. But last year I thought both of them had solid years for what they were given in terms of time.
Kakko and laf both coming near 40 points at even strength with the amount of time they were given is a fairly good year.

I dont want to say that they're finished developing because they're not, but I think if you start feeding them some legit power play time, they're going to explode.

I think most players have their ice time reduced if they play badly. That could be offensively or defensively. That is coaching.

In regards to Laf and KK I do not think they should be bunched together so often. They both may play hard. They both may play bad or one may play better than the other. We should look at them individually despite both being around the same age. I do not care about stats. Last offseason I was a bit let down by KK and optimistic about Laf. This offseason that has reversed. Their stats were nearly the same but I felt KK upped his effort level while Laf's effort level declined. I want to see the hunger. I want to see the effort. I want to see the improvement in skills that can only come with putting in the work.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

If we’re talking lias and Krav? Yeah, I’m with you. The people responsible for this are now in Montreal doing dumb things.

In regards to Laf and Kakko? Everyone takes them 1 and 2. They dont get buried on the depth chart by most teams and are actually given opportunities to grow into key roles by other teams.



Yes the guy who makes 11.6 and has been a no show in the playoffs 2 years in a row with a declining production rate is not a problem.

You got me.

Panarin aint the issue here.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Panarin aint the issue here.

He isn't THE issue, there are multiple or were, I'm pretty confident they addressed a few of them on Saturday.

He has been one of them though, ESPECIALLY in the playoffs. Theres no debating the latter, hes been bad on both runs.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Tim wouldn't be burried at all. You watch Tim play and produce. We would have been excited and wanted more.

With the coaching staffs the Rangers have had, I'm not convinced they would've played him more than Lafreniere/Kakko. Lol

 

[Profet]

Tim wouldn't be burried at all. You watch Tim play and produce. We would have been excited and wanted more.

You say that, but what's his heart rate like?

 

[nsvoyageurs]

I understand that. But that doesn’t change that being overpaid puts a bullseye on him. And it’s valid to be unhappy with that. And of course saying he sucks is ridiculous. It’s circumstance. If Pan was getting 3 mil less a year we’d all be cool with him. If Laf, as another example, was drafted 25th overall we’d all be thrilled with him... They are still the players they are, but there are factors that make them disappointing.


I don’t think a single scout had Stutzle penciled in for 1OA. If anyone even had Byfield there it was an outlier. Laf was consensus.

I don't think anyone else had someone other than Lafreniere as the top pick either, but Stutzle was an intriguing prospect to me (not that I'm any NHL Draft prospect expert! LOL) If the Rangers had developed Lafreniere properly, and Lafreniere took some initiative in his own development, this wouldn't be an issue.

If Jeff Gorton had traded down in the Laf draft, we here on this board, maybe myself included, would've screamed blue murder, but, maybe in retrospect, it might have been the right decision.

I know hindsight is 20/20 and the answer to the above scenario will never be known. Odds are the NYR will try to trade to Stutzle in about 5-10 years when he gets sick of losing in Ottawa.

 

[Machinehead]

I can't picture Stutzle being a star here. How many forwards need to get worse here before the team is the problem?

 

[NickyFotiu]

With the coaching staffs the Rangers have had, I'm not convinced they would've played him more than Lafreniere/Kakko. Lol

Tims minutes went up as he earned them in OTT. He didn't start out playing 18 plus minutes.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Tims minutes went up as he earned them in OTT. He didn't start out playing 18 plus minutes.

His rookie year he put up 29 points in 53 games and 12 of those came on the pp.
he may not have gotten 18 minutes (that came the following season)
But he was getting power play time early.
a lot of us have said Laf needed pp time to open up creativity. On the pp players automatically have time and space, and it gives them time to figure things out. Laf never had that.

 

[GAGLine]

Tims minutes went up as he earned them in OTT. He didn't start out playing 18 plus minutes.

To date, Laf has played 216 regular season games and Stutzle has played 210.

Year	Stutzle				Lafreniere
	PP TOI/G	PP Points	EV TOI/G	EV Points	PP TOI/G	PP Points	EV TOI/G	EV Points
2020-21	2:52	9	12:52	20	1:17	0	12:36	21
2021-22	3:14	26	15:02	31	1:11	2	12:46	29
2022-23	4:01	28	16:00	59	1:23	4	13:49	35

Through their first 2 years, Laf had 50 EV points and Stutzle had 51, with Stutzle averaging significantly more EV time in the 2nd season.

Yes, Stutzle exploded in year 3, but he has consistently gotten significant PP time from day 1. I think people underestimate how much that helps players, not just to pad their stats, but to give them confidence in their game.

None of this is to say that Laf would have done as well with the same opportunities, just to point out that he hasn't had the same opportunities.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Watching them from the moment they stepped on NHL ice it was clear that Stutzle had elite physical tools like skating, which Laf does not. I think we are doing a poor job of developing but I don't think a Stutzle, Hughes, etc suddenly forget how to skate had they been drafted by the Rangers. Skating is the most important thing in the new NHL and the Rangers are allergic to it.

 

[NickyFotiu]

To date, Laf has played 216 regular season games and Stutzle has played 210.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Year[/TD]
[TD]Stutzle[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]Lafreniere[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]PP TOI/G[/TD]
[TD]PP Points[/TD]
[TD]EV TOI/G[/TD]
[TD]EV Points[/TD]
[TD]PP TOI/G[/TD]
[TD]PP Points[/TD]
[TD]EV TOI/G[/TD]
[TD]EV Points[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2020-21[/TD]
[TD]2:52[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]12:52[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]1:17[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]12:36[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-22[/TD]
[TD]3:14[/TD]
[TD]26[/TD]
[TD]15:02[/TD]
[TD]31[/TD]
[TD]1:11[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]12:46[/TD]
[TD]29[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2022-23[/TD]
[TD]4:01[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]16:00[/TD]
[TD]59[/TD]
[TD]1:23[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]13:49[/TD]
[TD]35[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Through their first 2 years, Laf had 50 EV points and Stutzle had 51, with Stutzle averaging significantly more EV time in the 2nd season.

Yes, Stutzle exploded in year 3, but he has consistently gotten significant PP time from day 1. I think people underestimate how much that helps players, not just to pad their stats, but to give them confidence in their game.

None of this is to say that Laf would have done as well with the same opportunities, just to point out that he hasn't had the same opportunities.

Im not arguing about stats for or against Laf. I keep repeating myself to no avail. I don't care about stats. When I see Hughes playing even strength, I see the skills. When I see Tim playing even strength I see the skills. It not about stats. Its not about minutes on PP. Its not about minutes 16-18. In minutes 1-15 Hughes shows his skill. So does Tim. Id like to be able to say that much more often about Laf. Wouldn't you?

 

[NickyFotiu]

His rookie year he put up 29 points in 53 games and 12 of those came on the pp.
he may not have gotten 18 minutes (that came the following season)
But he was getting power play time early.
a lot of us have said Laf needed pp time to open up creativity. On the pp players automatically have time and space, and it gives them time to figure things out. Laf never had that.

Its not about points, minutes or PP. Watch the players. Id like to see Laf bring more. There are guys you see and go wow that guy is good. Im hoping to see that much more. We saw a little in Lafs second season so I was optimistic. I was disappointed in his 3rd season. Hopefully he works hard and shows much more in his 4th season.

 

[GAGLine]

Im not arguing about stats for or against Laf. I keep repeating myself to no avail. I don't care about stats. When I see Hughes playing even strength, I see the skills. When I see Tim playing even strength I see the skills. It not about stats. Its not about minutes on PP. Its not about minutes 16-18. In minutes 1-15 Hughes shows his skill. So does Tim. Id like to be able to say that much more often about Laf. Wouldn't you?

Hughes and Stutzle both have something Laf does not. They are both great skaters.

Laf has skills, but it's hard to use them when he doesn't have time and space. That is the biggest challenge for any young player, learning how to create time and space for themselves at the NHL level. What worked for Hughes and Stutzle in lower leagues works for them in the NHL. The same isn't true for Laf. He needs to adjust his game. I can't imagine that's easy for any player, let alone a guy who had so much success prior to the NHL.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Hughes and Stutzle both have something Laf does not. They are both great skaters.

Laf has skills, but it's hard to use them when he doesn't have time and space. That is the biggest challenge for any young player, learning how to create time and space for themselves at the NHL level. What worked for Hughes and Stutzle in lower leagues works for them in the NHL. The same isn't true for Laf. He needs to adjust his game. I can't imagine that's easy for any player, let alone a guy who had so much success prior to the NHL.

That is fair. Im just hoping for more. I want to see Laf at his best by him putting in the work. Crosby has been in the league forever. Who shows more hunger on the ice? Crosby or Laf last season? Who do you think is working harder to improve in the offseason? The guy with nothing to prove or the guy with a lot to prove. I want Laf to be the best he can be. I want Laf to be so good next season that we can all be proud of his improvement.

 

[bernmeister]

Who is taking Trouba's spot? Scheider? No thanks. And then who is taking Schneider's spot?

We could've had Zadina for nothing, and now we're trading one of our top 4 defenseman for Zadina and Gettinger of all people?

Never change, Bern.

it's for cap relief

 

[PuckLuck3043]

That is fair. Im just hoping for more. I want to see Laf at his best by him putting in the work. Crosby has been in the league forever. Who shows more hunger on the ice? Crosby or Laf last season? Who do you think is working harder to improve in the offseason? The guy with nothing to prove or the guy with a lot to prove. I want Laf to be the best he can be. I want Laf to be so good next season that we can all be proud of his improvement.

I think he hears the noise and knows this is a very important season for him. I would hope that he is working hard this off season and ready to show what he's got when camp opens.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

One of the great things about Laffy is that he has a good personality. Sure, he may be a bit immature but he's a competitor, he doesn't whine or feel bad for himself. He doesn't seem like some big ego guy who can't take criticism either. I think that all bodes well for him growing up a bit and having some self awareness on the things that need improvement. The mental aspect of growth is JUST as important as the physical.

 

[Alluckks]

I'd be happy if Laf just became a consistent 30 goal, 55 point player. That wouldn't be what we hoped for with a 1st overall but I think that is well within reach.

Kakko could end up following the Buchnevich development path.

 

[RangerBoy]

Jason Robertson is not a very good skater. His skating ability hasn’t prevented him from becoming one of the best young players in the NHL.