Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[lakeshirts37]

Start with this….then at the deadline upgrade 3RW, add depth F and D?



Panarin - Zibanejad - Kakko
Lafreniere - Chytil - Wheeler
Kreider - Trocheck - Vesey
Goodrow - Bonino - Pitlick

Miller - Fox
Gustafsson - Trouba
Lindgren - Schneider

 

[bernmeister]

Zadina is already under contract @ 1.825 mil for the next 2 years.

Maybe Detroit would be willing to trade him @ 50% for future considerations, but we already have enough young players who need to get opportunities. Let's get them going first before we worry about taking on another project.

something along lines of Trouba retained 2.5 per = 5.5
we take Zadina and Gettinger full pop = ballpark 2.5+
5.5 - just over 2.5 = 3ish m cap relief
also we take Rasmussen who is out "indefinitely" and may never play again.

ny gets cap relief, and we can futz w/Zedina, or unload

 

[haohmaru]

Who is taking Trouba's spot? Scheider? No thanks. And then who is taking Schneider's spot?

We could've had Zadina for nothing, and now we're trading one of our top 4 defenseman for Zadina and Gettinger of all people?

Never change, Bern.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

You could make the case for Stutzle, but he wouldn't have had the same opportunities with the Rangers as he's had with the Senators. He'd still be buried on the 3th-4th line.

Yes, he has gotten more minutes and PP time on a bad team from the start but Laf was still the consensus No. 1 pick pre draft and I believe every single GM would have selected him 1OA.

 

[lakeshirts37]

Anyone who is saying they would have traded down in 2020 is lying.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Who is the all time New York Rangers leader in assists/game?

That would be Mr. Panarin through his first 4 seasons with the team.

 

[NickyFotiu]

You were complaining that it was a drafting problem but then you admit that you would have drafted them right where they were drafted just like every other GM. The problem is GM's don't have the luxury of 20/20 hindsight. My point is it really wasn't a drafting problem with Laf and Kakko who I still believe both with carve out very nice NHL careers when all is said and done. Chytil, Miller, and Schneider have also been pretty decent late first rounders. Most of Drury's selections look pretty good at this stage also which I already mentioned. IMO drafting has not been the problem. More of an argument can be made about player development and asset management.

A lot of drafting is timing. We weren't lucky in that regard. No Crosby, McDavid, Ovechin, or Bedard in our draft year at #1.

 

[NickyFotiu]

You could make the case for Stutzle, but he wouldn't have had the same opportunities with the Rangers as he's had with the Senators. He'd still be buried on the 3th-4th line

Tim wouldn't be burried at all. You watch Tim play and produce. We would have been excited and wanted more.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Regarding Panarin, he has clearly declined. His first year with the Rangers, he was 100% worth his contract. He was great in all situations and played a 200 foot game. His 2nd year wasn't quite as good, but still worthy of that contract. Since then, he hasn't been nearly as good. His points the last 2 years have been propped up by a strong power play.

These are his points per 60 numbers at 5 on 5 since he's been a Ranger:

2019-20: 3.28
2020-21: 3.06
2021-22: 2.52
2022-23: 2.45

That's a clear decline in his 5 on 5 play.

These are his even strength numbers (all EV situations) and league ranks (among forwards):

2019-20: 71 in 69 games (1st)
2020-21: 40 in 42 games (10th)
2021-22: 59 in 75 games (18th)
2022-23: 56 in 82 games (25th)

25th among all forwards might seem good, but he's had the 2nd highest cap hit in the league all 4 years (MacKinnon's new contract starts this coming year, dropping Panarin to 3rd).

These are his plus/minus numbers:

2019-20: +36 (69 games)
2020-21: +14 (42 games)
2021-22: +21 (75 games)
2022-23: +4 (82 games)

I know people say plus/minus is meaningless, but it says something that a 92 point player was only a plus 4, particularly on a team that finished with 107 points. Mika managed to be a +25, Kreider +21, and Chytil +15 on the same team. Even Jimmy Vesey was +13.

Panarin is not currently worth his cap hit. He needs to be better if we want to win a cup.

At the present time entering his 5th season he isn't worth 11.5 million but when you look at the life of the contract and the fact that he has averaged around 1.2 points per game and was a Hart trophy finalist his worth is pretty high.

 

[Bruner4329]

Lmao what?

Considering where he was selected, Chytil was a fine pick.

He goes cold, but he hardly disappears for long stretches.

4 goals in the last 31 regular season games and 0 in the last 13. I am LMAO too. The stats don't lie. That is a long stretch basically almost 40% of the season.

 

[UnSandvich]

Tim wouldn't be burried at all. You watch Tim play and produce. We would have been excited and wanted more.

You say that, but do you really think Quinn and Gallant would've accepted his rather lacking defensive commitment over his first couple seasons?

 

[Bruner4329]

4 goals in the last 31 regular season games and 0 in the last 13. I am LMAO too. The stats don't lie. That is a long stretch basically almost 40% of the season.

Oh and just so it does not seem like I am being selective, the prior year in the last 40 games he had 5 goals in the last 40 games or basically the last half of the season.

 

[NickyFotiu]

You say that, but do you really think Quinn and Gallant would've accepted his rather lacking defensive commitment over his first couple seasons?

Tim would have played more and more while they worked on him on defense. He wouldn't start at huge minutes but they would have increased all 3 seasons. Sometimes we have to believe our eyes. Bread isn't a defensive giant. He plays. Just watching Tim play would have had fans and media asking for more.

 

[haohmaru]

4 goals in the last 31 regular season games and 0 in the last 13. I am LMAO too. The stats don't lie. That is a long stretch basically almost 40% of the season.

Chytil had 2 goals in his last 10 games. Oh, you're combining regular + post season. Never mind.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Lol at people discussing Lafreniere and Kakko like they are 30 years old already. They are both developing power forward types, those types typically need time to gain the strength needed to play the same game as they did in the minors. Lafreniere is only 21 ffs, fox never joined this team until he was 22 or 23. People need to step back from the ledge and let things unfold, if Lafreniere gets to 25 and hasn't gotten to 70 points then we got a problem, all this Sather like donkey talk and impatience is silly.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Chytil had 2 goals in his last 10 games. Oh, you're combining regular + post season. Never mind.

Yeah and it’s dumb.

He went ice cold for a stretch after being the hottest player in the league but he was getting a ton of chances despite not finishing.

You weren’t saying it, but that’s not being invisible. He’s been one of our top generator of high danger chances for years. He isn’t a great finisher, but he’s always gotten his chances.

 

[haohmaru]

Yeah and it’s dumb.

He went ice cold for a stretch after being the hottest player in the league but he was getting a ton of chances despite not finishing.

You weren’t saying it, but that’s not being invisible.

Yeah, agree. Chytil's only 23 and it's not like he's a 1OA. His progression has been fine and it's not like he's getting a crazy amount of ice time either (14 minutes a game).

 

[UnSandvich]

Tim would have played more and more while they worked on him on defense. He wouldn't start at huge minutes but they would have increased all 3 seasons. Sometimes we have to believe our eyes. Bread isn't a defensive giant. He plays. Just watching Tim play would have had fans and media asking for more.

Panarin was also a UFA signing, and is making 11.5 mil per season. Saying b/c he plays, Stutzle would is not even remotely applicable.

Kakko & Lafreniere were both significantly more creative players before the Rangers stifled it out of them in the name of defensive commitment. I struggle to think that they would not have done the exact same thing with Stutzle

 

[bhamill]

Problem is most FA's are overpaid, especially pre covid and flat cap. If we didn't sign him the Piles would have and were offering more.

I understand that. But that doesn’t change that being overpaid puts a bullseye on him. And it’s valid to be unhappy with that. And of course saying he sucks is ridiculous. It’s circumstance. If Pan was getting 3 mil less a year we’d all be cool with him. If Laf, as another example, was drafted 25th overall we’d all be thrilled with him... They are still the players they are, but there are factors that make them disappointing.

You could make the case for Stutzle, but he wouldn't have had the same opportunities with the Rangers as he's had with the Senators. He'd still be buried on the 3th-4th line.

I don’t think a single scout had Stutzle penciled in for 1OA. If anyone even had Byfield there it was an outlier. Laf was consensus.

 

[haohmaru]

I can see being disappointed with Panarin's post seasons over the past couple of years.

But he's worth his contract. Period.

Two NHL All Star Team selections in 4 years. 3 90+ point seasons. Highest assist/game in Rangers history.

People forget that the likes of Tavares, Doughty, Kane, Toews, Price, Kopitar, Bob the goalie, etc... are/were all in the same $ range.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Panarin was also a UFA signing, and is making 11.5 mil per season. Saying b/c he plays, Stutzle would is not even remotely applicable.

Kakko & Lafreniere were both significantly more creative players before the Rangers stifled it out of them in the name of defensive commitment. I struggle to think that they would not have done the exact same thing with Stutzle

Nobody is stopping Laf nor KK from being creative once they hit the ice. That is a fans narrative. We occasionally have seen Laf make some creative plays. You really think he comes back to the bench and the coaches yell at him for it? That is some tin foil hat stuff. The only guy I have ever heard bark at successful creativity was Tortorella as a commentator and he looked foolish.

Everyone wants Laf and KK to step it up. There is no conspiracy among Gorton, Drury, Quinn, Gallant and others to stop that. The better Laf and KK play they better our coaches and management look.

 

[McRanger92]

Yeah and it’s dumb.

He went ice cold for a stretch after being the hottest player in the league but he was getting a ton of chances despite not finishing.

You weren’t saying it, but that’s not being invisible. He’s been one of our top generator of high danger chances for years. He isn’t a great finisher, but he’s always gotten his chances.

Chytil is going to develop into a Zibanejad type with less of a defensive game. When he is hot, he’s raging hot like Mika. He carried us for a stretch in 2022 playoffs.

I also think he’s grown into a leader. Signing him to that contract was great he’s a core player.

 

[UnSandvich]

Nobody is stopping Laf nor KK from being creative once they hit the ice. That is a fans narrative. We occasionally have seen Laf make some creative plays. You really think he comes back to the bench and the coaches yell at him for it? That is some tin foil hat stuff. The only guy I have ever heard bark at successful creativity was Tortorella as a commentator and he looked foolish.

Everyone wants Laf and KK to step it up. There is no conspiracy among Gorton, Drury, Quinn, Gallant and others to stop that. The better Laf and KK play they better our coaches and management look.

I've seen them both benched for defensive miscues, while vets get a free pass. We all have. It happens consistently. At this point both of them play low-risk hockey because they end up getting benched when they don't. If you choose not to see it idk what to tell you.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Chytil is going to develop into a Zibanejad type with less of a defensive game. When he is hot, he’s raging hot like Mika. He carried us for a stretch in 2022 playoffs.

I also think he’s grown into a leader. Signing him to that contract was great he’s a core player.

This is a bit ambitious. Zib is more creative and a better shooter.

Chytil should really spend all his time working on his shot. He can settle in as a 30-30 player which is a massive win with a 21 oa pick.

 

[GAGLine]

4 goals in the last 31 regular season games and 0 in the last 13. I am LMAO too. The stats don't lie. That is a long stretch basically almost 40% of the season.

Oh and just so it does not seem like I am being selective, the prior year in the last 40 games he had 5 goals in the last 40 games or basically the last half of the season.

The prior year, he took a step back for sure, but he picked it up in the playoffs. Development isn't always linear.

This past year, he set career highs in goals, assists and points while only playing 74 games. Was he inconsistent as a scorer? Yes. That's why he scored 45 points instead of 85. But he didn't get much PP time and almost none on the 1st unit. Only 5 of his 45 points were on the PP.

He was 3rd on the team in p/60 5 on 5 (min 10 games) at 2.24. Only Panarin (2.45) and Motte (2.56 in 24 games) were higher.

Expecting a 23 year old player to score consistently without significant PP time seems unrealistic. By all metrics, he had a good year.