Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[PuckLuck3043]

I would have drafted Laff and Kakko 1st and 2nd along with everyone else. Unfortunately, the Rangers “lucked” into the top two picks in back to back mediocre drafts. Now with hindsight do I pick them 1st and 2nd overall? Absolutely not. Do you? A lot of luck goes into these picks. And historically the Rangers don’t have a lot of that lol.

And please don’t add things that I’m not saying. I’m not overly hopeful with these two. But that doesn’t mean I’m giving up all hope. I’ll be pulling for them yet again this season.

You were complaining that it was a drafting problem but then you admit that you would have drafted them right where they were drafted just like every other GM. The problem is GM's don't have the luxury of 20/20 hindsight. My point is it really wasn't a drafting problem with Laf and Kakko who I still believe both with carve out very nice NHL careers when all is said and done. Chytil, Miller, and Schneider have also been pretty decent late first rounders. Most of Drury's selections look pretty good at this stage also which I already mentioned. IMO drafting has not been the problem. More of an argument can be made about player development and asset management.

 

[GAGLine]

See thats not a drafting issue though, thats an asset allocation issue.
They hit on 2/3 first round picks in a draft. both of their hits happened to be in the mid 20's.
The top 10 of that draft is wonky AF too.
Look at who's missed in that draft.
Zadina just cleared waivers and he went ahead of kratsov, hayton is just starting to look like a top pick. Kotkaniemi wouldn't go in the top 15 of that draft in a re-draft.

Miller might end up a top 5 pick in a re-draft in another 5 years.

That's a fair point, though it should also be noted that Lundkvist didn't have a spot on this team and hasn't yet earned a permanent spot on Dallas either, so the jury is still out as to whether he was a hit or miss.

 

[McRanger92]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yesterday from 32T yet, but Friedman mentioned what he’s been hearing about an Evan Bouchard extension for Edmonton. Would be really helpful for negotiating with Key

Between this and the Byram contract, I’d be surprised if Miller gets more than 4 on a 2 year deal

 

[bhamill]

This is pure speculation. You have no basis for knowing who will be gone. I can tell you now that if Kreider continues to produce at a level near the last 2 years there is a great chance he retires as a Ranger. The guy keeps himself in shape and no way he won't be playing beyond the 2025/2026 season. And the big assumption is that FC , KK and AL will start living up to form. Big assumption.

I’m a fan of Kreider retiring a NYR. His contract is not bad and I don’t see him falling off of a cliff.

 

[McRanger92]

Proves he sucks

Rangers ruined Zadina’s development too eh?

 

[Bruner4329]

The Andersson wiff is mitigated by hitting on Chytil.
The kratsov wiff is heavily mitigated by hitting on both miller and lundkvist.
The Rangers surprisingly have done well for drafting.

We hit on Chytil? A bit premature and its only taken him 5 years to shows some life. Maybe when he stops disappearing for long stretches can we declare victory. I mean where was he in the playoffs this year. I need to see a lot more for a first round pick. Until then that year's selection of Lias and FC is still disappointing.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

We hit on Chytil? A bit premature and its only taken him 5 years to shows some life. Maybe when he stops disappearing for long stretches can we declare victory. I mean where was he in the playoffs this year. I need to see a lot more for a first round pick. Until then that year's selection of Lias and FC is still disappointing.

Lmao what?

Considering where he was selected, Chytil was a fine pick.

He goes cold, but he hardly disappears for long stretches.

 

[Profet]

I want to feel this way but it's fool me once shame on you... but fool me 20+ times...

20+ years (since the dark ages) of the Rangers prioritizing aging vets over drafted young forwards. I have a hard time believing it will suddenly change. But I'll be very pleasantly surprised if it does.

Even when a drafted young forward blossoms into what they want or start to, they get traded. Dubinsky + Anisimov for Nash, Callahan for St. Louis, Miller for literally nothing, Savard for Hlavac, Amonte for Noonan and Matteau (yay we got a goal out of it), Kovalev for Nedved and Tamer, Duclair for Yandle, Kravtsov for nothing, Doug Weight ... among others.

I really want to believe Wheeler is used as a role 3rd-4th liner while the kids are leaned on and allowed to grow in leadership roles. But, the past evidence suggests otherwise.

Malhotra for Rucinsky

 

[Synergy27]

Eh I dunno if this is the right way to look at it.

I'd rather have Chytil and Suzuki than just Chytil.

I'd rather have Farabee and Miller than just Miller and a few games of Tarasenko. Farabee is really the only good forward from that 1st round taken after the top 4 so that makes that miss hurt less. Doesn't mean they couldn't have taken a D but it is what it is.

We got Bobrov'd and I'm glad hes taken his act to Montreal (where surprisingly, they passed on the Russian who is actually good this year.)

I’m as much of a draft revisionist as anyone, but you can’t just cherry pick the guys that turned out good.

In the Kravtsov draft, most people had us linked to Wahlstrom and people were very happy that he dropped to us. Farabee wasn’t on the radar as a top ten pick even though a few is of us here heavily advocated for trying to trade up to get him too. Wahlstrom is a meh player.

The Andersson draft was certainly a weird one. By all accounts our scouts rightly assessed Pettersson to be the guy to get but they couldn’t make it happen. The other rumored links were to Mittelstadt and maybe Necas. Suzuki was not a consideration at 7 by anyone that I am aware of. Yes I’d obviously rather have one of those other two guys but Suzuki wasn’t happening.

Take this all the way back to 2010 and McIlrath over Tarasenko. That one hurts so bad because it was so obvious and dumb from the moment the pick was made. But you can’t complain that they didn’t pick Kuznetsov or Toffoli or Stone.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Panarin has scored heaps. The frustration is that he does that while leaving so much on the table. He’s capable of far more. And of course he’s done relatively poorly in the playoffs for us. When we need him to be a game breaker most.

He was brought here because of his dynamic offensive skills. People act like he's been bad since he's been here and that is simply not true. He is their most dynamic offensive player and his first 2 years here were really really good. 92 points last year in a "bad" year. Can he do more and be better and not be as risky with the puck? Sure but that is unfortunately how he creates scoring opportunities also. Maybe everyone else can be a little better also. Mika scored 1 lousy goal in the series against the Devils. Lots of blame to go around.

 

[bhamill]

He was brought here because of his dynamic offensive skills. People act like he's been bad since he's been here and that is simply not true. He is their most dynamic offensive player and his first 2 years here were really really good. 92 points last year in a "bad" year. Can he do more and be better and not be as risky with the puck? Sure but that is unfortunately how he creates scoring opportunities also. Maybe everyone else can be a little better also. Mika scored 1 lousy goal in the series against the Devils. Lots of blame to go around.

Sure, pretty much everyone underperformed this past postseason, but it’s two running for Pan. Again, Im not saying he’s not our most dynamic player. I’m saying he could be, and has been in the fairly recent past, much better. We can argue some fine points about his level of play, but I don’t think its arguable that he’s being paid like the number 2 (I think) player in the league, but he is not playing anywhere near that good. Hasn't since his near Hart season. It is a legitimate gripe. Pan at 8.5 and you’d see a LOT less complaining.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Rangers ruined Zadina’s development too eh?

Some fans wanted this bust

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Between this and the Byram contract, I’d be surprised if Miller gets more than 4 on a 2 year deal

I think he gets 3.75 on a 2 year deal

 

[Fitzy]

I think I would have entertained trading down for Byfield or Stutzle given our needs in 2020 but of course it’s easy to say that now

 

[PuckLuck3043]

I think he gets 3.75 on a 2 year deal

Same here.

 

[Fitzy]

I think he gets 3.75 on a 2 year deal

That’s a lot of space left at the deadline then

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Sure, pretty much everyone underperformed this past postseason, but it’s two running for Pan. Again, Im not saying he’s not our most dynamic player. I’m saying he could be, and has been in the fairly recent past, much better. We can argue some fine points about his level of play, but I don’t think its arguable that he’s being paid like the number 2 (I think) player in the league, but he is not playing anywhere near that good. Hasn't since his near Hart season. It is a legitimate gripe. Pan at 8.5 and you’d see a LOT less complaining.

Problem is most FA's are overpaid, especially pre covid and flat cap. If we didn't sign him the Piles would have and were offering more.

That’s a lot of space left at the deadline then

Not really. They have about 7 million left and they have to sign Laf also.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

That’s a lot of space left at the deadline then

3.75 key
2.3-5 Laf

Somewhere like 600-700K going into the season prob (depending on how many they use total)

 

[lakeshirts37]

Please sign zadina

 

[haohmaru]

He was brought here because of his dynamic offensive skills. People act like he's been bad since he's been here and that is simply not true. He is their most dynamic offensive player and his first 2 years here were really really good. 92 points last year in a "bad" year. Can he do more and be better and not be as risky with the puck? Sure but that is unfortunately how he creates scoring opportunities also.

Who is the all time New York Rangers leader in assists/game?

 

[GAGLine]

Regarding Panarin, he has clearly declined. His first year with the Rangers, he was 100% worth his contract. He was great in all situations and played a 200 foot game. His 2nd year wasn't quite as good, but still worthy of that contract. Since then, he hasn't been nearly as good. His points the last 2 years have been propped up by a strong power play.

These are his points per 60 numbers at 5 on 5 since he's been a Ranger:

2019-20: 3.28
2020-21: 3.06
2021-22: 2.52
2022-23: 2.45

That's a clear decline in his 5 on 5 play.

These are his even strength numbers (all EV situations) and league ranks (among forwards):

2019-20: 71 in 69 games (1st)
2020-21: 40 in 42 games (10th)
2021-22: 59 in 75 games (18th)
2022-23: 56 in 82 games (25th)

25th among all forwards might seem good, but he's had the 2nd highest cap hit in the league all 4 years (MacKinnon's new contract starts this coming year, dropping Panarin to 3rd).

These are his plus/minus numbers:

2019-20: +36 (69 games)
2020-21: +14 (42 games)
2021-22: +21 (75 games)
2022-23: +4 (82 games)

I know people say plus/minus is meaningless, but it says something that a 92 point player was only a plus 4, particularly on a team that finished with 107 points. Mika managed to be a +25, Kreider +21, and Chytil +15 on the same team. Even Jimmy Vesey was +13.

Panarin is not currently worth his cap hit. He needs to be better if we want to win a cup.

 

[GAGLine]

Please sign zadina

Zadina is already under contract @ 1.825 mil for the next 2 years.

Maybe Detroit would be willing to trade him @ 50% for future considerations, but we already have enough young players who need to get opportunities. Let's get them going first before we worry about taking on another project.

 

[lakeshirts37]

Zadina is already under contract @ 1.825 mil for the next 2 years.

Maybe Detroit would be willing to trade him @ 50% for future considerations, but we already have enough young players who need to get opportunities. Let's get them going first before we worry about taking on another project.

Yup thought there was another buyout window coming up and assumed he’d be a candidate. Fair enough on your second point

 

[Shadowtron]

You were complaining that it was a drafting problem but then you admit that you would have drafted them right where they were drafted just like every other GM. The problem is GM's don't have the luxury of 20/20 hindsight. My point is it really wasn't a drafting problem with Laf and Kakko who I still believe both with carve out very nice NHL careers when all is said and done. Chytil, Miller, and Schneider have also been pretty decent late first rounders. Most of Drury's selections look pretty good at this stage also which I already mentioned. IMO drafting has not been the problem. More of an argument can be made about player development and asset management.

A drafting problem that is a combo of bad luck (Laff and Kakko) and bad drafting (Lias and Krav). The reason why I’m not sold on it being a development problem (or not solely one) is because like you said, Chytil and Key are both decent. Fox was a Norris trophy winner in year 2. They can and do develop players.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Yea ok. You let me know who you would have drafted 1st and 2nd OA at the time Laf and kakko were drafted when every single team in the league would have done the same exact thing. Also I guess it's time to give up on a 21yo and 22yo right? No way they can develop and get any better. Some of you guys are just so damn smart.

You could make the case for Stutzle, but he wouldn't have had the same opportunities with the Rangers as he's had with the Senators. He'd still be buried on the 3th-4th line.