Speculation: Roster Building Thread VI (2021 Offseason) - Nobody fickles, under Coach “lookalike to Don Rickles”!

[duhmetreE]

It seems like Kreider's mindset/gameplay changed once Panarin came along.

Before that he was driving play and a big reason for Zibs success IMO.

 

[NYR Viper]

I've said this a few times, Rangers need to make a call on both Zib and Strome this summer. No self renting for this season. Commit or move them.

With how decisive Drury has been up to this point, I am not expecting a 'wait and see' approach on either of them. I could see them self-renting Strome should they trade Zibanejad just due to the flux on the roster. In saying that, if Zibanejad stays, I don't see a way in which they should keep Strome. So for me, my expectation next season is to see:

Strome
Chytil
_____
Rooney

Or

Zibenajed
Chytil
_____
Rooney

I think I would prefer option 1 as I am not in love with paying Zibenejad long term at all.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Wonder if the report of us cooling on Eichel is just a ploy to get the price lower

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Wonder if the report of us cooling on Eichel is just a ploy to get the price lower

Don't think Carp has the connections into the organization to do that but who knows. Brooks used to do that when Sather was the GM. He'd get fed stuff to put in his columns.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Wonder if the report of us cooling on Eichel is just a ploy to get the price lower

Quite possibly. Or at least a reflection on Buffalo's ask vs an actual reduced desire to land him.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Wonder if the report of us cooling on Eichel is just a ploy to get the price lower

Hájek
Rooney
The rights to Rykov
Cond 6th round pick in 2022

*Pick turns into a 5th if Eichel takes over as GM in the next 12 months

 

[bleedblue94]

Yeah but that’s different. They don’t need permission from their team to do that during that period. Hamilton is being told he can go talk to other teams well before that period has even started. Well before that period has even started. It’s not the same thing.

Like I said, different method but same mechanism. In those instances if teams were so worried about a player getting to the courting period they would panic and up offers prior. I mean if you think about it this way if Hamilton is trying to get petro money bc he sees himself as a complete d man, and the canes see him more of a offensive guy that needs the right partner and are thinking he is worth krug money, than what is to be lost by letting him talk to other teams? What if he goes out there and finds no one is willing to pay him petro money, or the only one(s) that are willing to are actually in cities/teams he doesn't want to play in. Not every other team is going to have a slavin quality player to compliment against his deficiencies, and when you think back to even last year petro ended up with a much smaller group of suitors than most thought he would have. I'm not saying this move will absolutely work out for the canes, but I'm just saying it is a calculated move. If hamilton is set on 8 or 9+ per year and they are set on a number starting with 7 and wont budge than this is a way to say go see what else you can get. If you think about it another way, they have that 8th year hammer right, so if he ends up waiting till he's ufa and goes to talk to teams and comes back to the canes and says I can get X but if you match it I will stay, doing this now while they still have the 8th year option allows them to play that piece as a way to get the aav down slightly. Like I said before, no player is going to make the same aav on their last contract starting at age 35 or 36 as they do during the prime of their career which is the period that he is signing for now. So if he can get the 8th year and it still averages all out to be a net gain for him versus what he thinks he would score in 7 or 8 years on him last contract he still comes out winning and so does the team bc it could lead to a lower aav. I guess I just dont see the harm in letting him talk to other teams, especially if the canes believe they are making a fair offer or feel his demands are out of touch with reality. The other possibility is they know he isnt resigning so they are letting him get out and talk to other teams as early as possible to hopefully secure a decent return. I just think this is a move so he can get actual number from other teams so they arent negotiating against hypotheticals from his agent

 

[bleedblue94]

Wonder if the report of us cooling on Eichel is just a ploy to get the price lower

it follows the reports from LA. If you want to bring the price down having the two most natural suitors basically say they arent pursuing him may force adams to lower his demands

 

[Trxjw]

So are we all in agreement then? Sign Nosek and Goodrow as depth guys who can move all over the line-up. Trade Howden or Hajek for McNabb. Trade Buch for futures to help alleviate cap concerns.

HF isn't the gospel but if you look around the boards you can see that virtually every fan base is talking about guys like Coleman, Goodrow, Nosek, Oleksiak, etc. These aren't under the radar signings like Rooney or Blackwell. These are the guys who are going to get overpaid because cup contenders think they're the missing piece. I think the front office did a great job landing the aforementioned role players last summer. They're here for another year, depending on how expansion goes. I don't see much point in trying to dip into free agency just to shore up the 4th line.

Had we stuck with the previous coaching staff, I'd be more inclined to maybe overpay a bit for a guy like Goodrow and see if he can add a different look to the top-9 as a Fast-type guy. However, since we have a new coaching staff, I think we owe it to some of the players we have to give them a look with fresh eyes. Can Gauthier be a Goodrow at ES? Absolutely. The tools are all there. In fact, I think he can be a better player if the pieces come together. So why not give him a chance? Lets see what Barron looks like after some pro hockey and a full summer. Richards looked like he could be a great find for the 4th line. Perhaps Ronning has actually turned the corner.

With this forward group, Igor, and a healthy blue line plus a solid vet LD addition, I think we're a bubble team. If we can get a big step forward from Laf or Kakko, I we could actually make a bit of noise. Just not convinced we need to look outside the org for those role guys just yet.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Like I said, different method but same mechanism. In those instances if teams were so worried about a player getting to the courting period they would panic and up offers prior. I mean if you think about it this way if Hamilton is trying to get petro money bc he sees himself as a complete d man, and the canes see him more of a offensive guy that needs the right partner and are thinking he is worth krug money, than what is to be lost by letting him talk to other teams? What if he goes out there and finds no one is willing to pay him petro money, or the only one(s) that are willing to are actually in cities/teams he doesn't want to play in. Not every other team is going to have a slavin quality player to compliment against his deficiencies, and when you think back to even last year petro ended up with a much smaller group of suitors than most thought he would have. I'm not saying this move will absolutely work out for the canes, but I'm just saying it is a calculated move. If hamilton is set on 8 or 9+ per year and they are set on a number starting with 7 and wont budge than this is a way to say go see what else you can get. If you think about it another way, they have that 8th year hammer right, so if he ends up waiting till he's ufa and goes to talk to teams and comes back to the canes and says I can get X but if you match it I will stay, doing this now while they still have the 8th year option allows them to play that piece as a way to get the aav down slightly. Like I said before, no player is going to make the same aav on their last contract starting at age 35 or 36 as they do during the prime of their career which is the period that he is signing for now. So if he can get the 8th year and it still averages all out to be a net gain for him versus what he thinks he would score in 7 or 8 years on him last contract he still comes out winning and so does the team bc it could lead to a lower aav. I guess I just dont see the harm in letting him talk to other teams, especially if the canes believe they are making a fair offer or feel his demands are out of touch with reality. The other possibility is they know he isnt resigning so they are letting him get out and talk to other teams as early as possible to hopefully secure a decent return. I just think this is a move so he can get actual number from other teams so they arent negotiating against hypotheticals from his agent

It’s completely different, and not comparable at all. Please tell me who are the players who were granted permission by their current team to talk to other teams, not during the free agency interview period that doesn’t require that permission, and then re-signed with their old team. That is my point.

I mean, we are still over a month away from free agency. It’s not like it’s a week or two to go. Hamilton is an absolute goner who will get paid.

 

[bleedblue94]

It’s completely different, and not comparable at all. Please tell me who are the players who were granted permission by their current team to talk to other teams, not during the free agency interview period that doesn’t require that permission, and then re-signed with their old team. That is my point.

I mean, we are still over a month away from free agency. It’s not like it’s a week or two to go. Hamilton is an absolute goner who will get paid.

We will see.

Let me ask you, if you are the canes and you've been working with him and his agent from months now and you believe he is worth just say 7.5x8 and he is demanding 9x8 what's your play? To just wait it out till the deadline and then what? And once he gets to ufa and you lose your only X factor with the 8th year then you DO know he is gone. So if they are really apart on money and neither side is willing to move anymore than what would your move be?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Wonder if the report of us cooling on Eichel is just a ploy to get the price lower

Could be, but I don't think they're really hot for him either.

They were last summer, but that was under a different group at a different time. Really do believe that ship has sailed.

 

[CLW]

It’s completely different, and not comparable at all. Please tell me who are the players who were granted permission by their current team to talk to other teams, not during the free agency interview period that doesn’t require that permission, and then re-signed with their old team. That is my point.

I mean, we are still over a month away from free agency. It’s not like it’s a week or two to go. Hamilton is an absolute goner who will get paid.

He will get paid. That's the obvious point. Carolina does not want to be the team that overpays for Hamilton for years. That's just sanity and common sense, much like people here are reluctant to overpay for Zib's UFA years.

You can't have it both ways, Carolina being poorly run because they let Hamilton talk to other teams and stupid and uncommitted to winning because they don't want to overpay for Hamilton.

 

[bleedblue94]

It seems like Kreider's mindset/gameplay changed once Panarin came along.

Before that he was driving play and a big reason for Zibs success IMO.

I think it more changed once he got his contract. Leading up to the contract he was absolutely driving play.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

We will see.

Let me ask you, if you are the canes and you've been working with him and his agent from months now and you believe he is worth just say 7.5x8 and he is demanding 9x8 what's your play? To just wait it out till the deadline and then what? And once he gets to ufa and you lose your only X factor with the 8th year then you DO know he is gone. So if they are really apart on money and neither side is willing to move anymore than what would your move be?

Friedman on 31 thoughts podcast just now basically said the owner is saying "go out and see if you can get what you want because I'm not paying it" then talked about a bunch of teams being interested, including Seattle. Carolina is losing this guy.

 

[bleedblue94]

Friedman on 31 thoughts podcast just now basically said the owner is saying "go out and see if you can get what you want because I'm not paying it" then talked about a bunch of teams being interested, including Seattle. Carolina is losing this guy.

So exactly what I have been saying. You want more than we think you're worth, we aren't negotiating against hypotheticals (what you want), see what you can get and come back to us. Exactly what I've been saying...

 

[TheBloodyNine]

He will get paid. That's the obvious point. Carolina does not want to be the team that overpays for Hamilton for years. That's just sanity and common sense, much like people here are reluctant to overpay for Zib's UFA years.

You can't have it both ways, Carolina being poorly run because they let Hamilton talk to other teams and stupid and uncommitted to winning because they don't want to overpay for Hamilton.

How are those two points at odds with each other? Every UFA gets overpaid, especially the big time ones. That's the cost of doing business. They don't wanna over pay, that's fine - who is taking his minutes?

 

[McRanger92]

Doubtful the Rangers are out on Eichel until he gets traded elsewhere, and they are surely the odds on favorite at the moment.

Would love to add McNabb, Reaves or Nosek. Possibly all 3? Swinging a trade for McNabb/Reaves for picks would give LV the cap to bring back Martinez (who has been fantastic), and Nosek to me would be a cheaper option than even Goodrow.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

So exactly what I have been saying. You want more than we think you're worth, we aren't negotiating against hypotheticals (what you want), see what you can get and come back to us. Exactly what I've been saying...

Except you're saying he won't get that and now we already know that Carolina ain't paying it. My point is that this guy is going to get paid what he wants.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Doubtful the Rangers are out on Eichel until he gets traded elsewhere, and they are surely the odds on favorite at the moment.

Would love to add McNabb, Reaves or Nosek. Possibly all 3? Swinging a trade for McNabb/Reaves for picks would give LV the cap to bring back Martinez (who has been fantastic), and Nosek to me would be a cheaper option than even Goodrow.

On 31 thoughts podcast just now Marek asked Elliotte if the Rangers were still the favorite and his response was "I heard don't be surprised if Buffalo ends up with another high pick" he then mentioned Anaheim. Marek brought up Columbus but Friedman said they are going into draft and develop mode. Then mentioned LA but for Reinhart potentially.

It's a really vague answer but for whatever it's worth. I would say it leans more to what Carp was saying without taking the Rangers fully out of it.

 

[NYR Viper]

HF isn't the gospel but if you look around the boards you can see that virtually every fan base is talking about guys like Coleman, Goodrow, Nosek, Oleksiak, etc. These aren't under the radar signings like Rooney or Blackwell. These are the guys who are going to get overpaid because cup contenders think they're the missing piece. I think the front office did a great job landing the aforementioned role players last summer. They're here for another year, depending on how expansion goes. I don't see much point in trying to dip into free agency just to shore up the 4th line.

Had we stuck with the previous coaching staff, I'd be more inclined to maybe overpay a bit for a guy like Goodrow and see if he can add a different look to the top-9 as a Fast-type guy. However, since we have a new coaching staff, I think we owe it to some of the players we have to give them a look with fresh eyes. Can Gauthier be a Goodrow at ES? Absolutely. The tools are all there. In fact, I think he can be a better player if the pieces come together. So why not give him a chance? Lets see what Barron looks like after some pro hockey and a full summer. Richards looked like he could be a great find for the 4th line. Perhaps Ronning has actually turned the corner.

With this forward group, Igor, and a healthy blue line plus a solid vet LD addition, I think we're a bubble team. If we can get a big step forward from Laf or Kakko, I we could actually make a bit of noise. Just not convinced we need to look outside the org for those role guys just yet.

I understand this line of thinking, although I'm not sure I'm in love with so much youth. I think they need to add at least 1 veteran plug-and-play forward.

 

[rangers1314]

On 31 thoughts podcast just now Marek asked Elliotte if the Rangers were still the favorite and his response was "I heard don't be surprised if Buffalo ends up with another high pick" he then mentioned Anaheim. Marek brought up Columbus but Friedman said they are going into draft and develop mode. Then mentioned LA but for Reinhart potentially.

It's a really vague answer but for whatever it's worth. I would say it leans more to what Carp was saying without taking the Rangers fully out of it.

He's teased the ducks for a while...if I'm betting, thats where my money is.

 

[bleedblue94]

Except you're saying he won't get that and now we already know that Carolina ain't paying it. My point is that this guy is going to get paid what he wants.

You keep saying that and how do you know that? If he wants 10mil do you think anyone is giving him that?

He goes out and sees what the market is actually willing to pay him. If he goes back to the canes and says I can get this and the canes work the 8th year so that in total the contract is worth 5mil more than he believes he will get once he hits ufa than he prob resigns. The point is that letting him talk to other teams mean they are now negotiating against actual numbers and not just hypotheticals and baseless demands.

 

[CLW]

How are those two points at odds with each other? Every UFA gets overpaid, especially the big time ones. That's the cost of doing business. They don't wanna over pay, that's fine - who is taking his minutes?

Somebody else will take those minutes. Their cup runs don't hinge on one player, a year or two from now they will have a new player taking those minutes at probably a much better price. Carolina's core is extremely young still, no reason to paint themselves into the cap hell corner prematurely.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I definitely understand and agree with the notion that overpaying guys like Coleman, Goodrow, Nosek, etc on the UFA market is often a bad strategy. From a few angles - cap investment / impact, age / odds of breaking down, and perhaps most importantly the mental impact of giving essentially a final big $ contract to players whose effectiveness is predicated on effort.

I also think Gallant coming in could be a significant upgrade across the entire team and as much as possible want to see players get a chance under a new regime. I do however struggle to buy in to the fantasies of "Kreider becoming Tuch" or Gauthier figuring out how to grind...IMO both just have flaws in their toolbox that make that unrealistic. Kreider more so obviously.

Ultimately I would be extremely disappointed if they just brought back the same group. There will be natural growth and improvement given how young this team is, for sure, but they don't just need improvement along the same trajectory. In my opinion they need an overhaul in a few areas specifically they need to bring in some more diverse skillsets (i.e. grinding). If the fear is that the UFA route represents "bad buys", I would hope for a "talent/prospect for depth" type of trade that @Edge has long hinted at (not sure if still holds up w/Drury) to identify the next Goodrow, Carrier, etc.