Speculation: Roster Building Thread V (2021 Offseason) - Hold them horses, only 45 days left until the draft!

[NYRangers16]

I think the Rangers are in good position assets-wise to make a godfather offer for the guy they really want. I think that’s what we’re going to see this summer. I’m not talking a McDavid level guy but a very good player who fills that leadership and grit role but with skill. Maybe someone like Ryan O’Reilly.

So a grand-uncle offer, rather?

 

[NYRangers16]

I love both and I do absolutely believe both will be great players, but my God can we let them perform before we set 10M aside for them? lol

So you’d rather lose them in 4-5 years than have them here in their prime? This is why Buch will be traded. He’s the perfect example. If we hadn’t done the bridge deal and had invested more money earlier we wouldn’t be looking at this situation. But here we are. How do you think you get a Lindholm contract, or a Tuch, or many others. Bridges are great when rebuilding because you aren’t planning on keeping them. But when you want to actually compete, they end up in situations where either the player walks or you overpay or have to trade them. The only way to get a value contract is to sign players early that you believe in.

 

[GAGLine]

As for the salary cap, I just think that the team is in the window now. The prospects are all here, we're not waiting for them to cook anymore. The organization (rightfully) wants to start winning. Cap space isnt going to cause the NY Rangers to lose anyone they consider a core player, thinking otherwise is an irrational fear.

How are we in our window when we haven't even made the playoffs yet? And we are absolutely waiting for them to cook. Laf, Kakko, Kravtsov, Miller, Chytil, Barron, Jones, Lundkvist, Schneider, Robertson. None of these players have come close to their peak potential yet. None of them are performing at a level that will be needed to be cup contenders.

There's nothing irrational about worrying about the cap. It's math. It's not real difficult to see how adding a 10 mil center will affect our cap situation now and in the future. Some people just refuse to do the math and prefer to just cross their figures and assume it will all work out.

 

[bbny]

So you’d rather lose them in 4-5 years than have them here in their prime? This is why Buch will be traded. He’s the perfect example. If we hadn’t done the bridge deal and had invested more money earlier we wouldn’t be looking at this situation. But here we are. How do you think you get a Lindholm contract, or a Tuch, or many others. Bridges are great when rebuilding because you aren’t planning on keeping them. But when you want to actually compete, they end up in situations where either the player walks or you overpay or have to trade them. The only way to get a value contract is to sign players early that you believe in.

It's a little bit different than Buch because of draft position pedigree. We can't assume #1 and #2 overall picks would be interested in locking up long term for less right off their ELC. They probably believe in their abilities more than to sell themselves short on their next contract. If Kakko has a decent year next year, say 50 points, it would be unwise for him to rush into some 7yr x 5M deal. He's better off signing a 2yr x 3-4M bridge believing he's going to land a 7yr x 8M off the bridge. I think this path is already written for Kakko after two disappointing years (while year 2 was much better analytically than year 1, the production to get paid is still missing).

I do think it's too early to determine Lafreniere's contract path though. If he blows up this year and next he becomes a guy you pay long term off the ELC in 2 years and it wouldn't be cheap. Big if though.

 

[haohmaru]

This is hyperbole. Unless they are calling to joke around there are very few teams in the league that can actually complete the trade so even if every team called that means nothing at the end of the day.

And... this is true for nearly every trade in the NHL. It has to work for both teams.

 

[Vitto79]

I do find it annoying that a year after not giving Fast 3 yrs x 2 that they are going after a similar player in free agency

Gorton wanted to stay the course
Dolan is telling Drury to speed this process up

 

[IDvsEGO]

I do find it annoying that a year after not giving Fast 3 yrs x 2 that they are going after a similar player in free agency

Gorton wanted to stay the course
Dolan is telling Drury to speed this process up

what player is similar to fast that we're going after?

 

[Vitto79]

what player is similar to fast that we're going after?

bottom 6 grinder ? Can likely find a lot

not exactly the same player but this board has thrown out names like Goodrow, Nosek , Martinook

I kinda like Paquette for cheap

Also I would say Rooney and Blackwell did a good job as the Fast replacement

Hyman and Coleman are perfect but will cost more

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

How are we in our window when we haven't even made the playoffs yet? And we are absolutely waiting for them to cook. Laf, Kakko, Kravtsov, Miller, Chytil, Barron, Jones, Lundkvist, Schneider, Robertson. None of these players have come close to their peak potential yet. None of them are performing at a level that will be needed to be cup contenders.

There's nothing irrational about worrying about the cap. It's math. It's not real difficult to see how adding a 10 mil center will affect our cap situation now and in the future. Some people just refuse to do the math and prefer to just cross their figures and assume it will all work out.

I think that Sather is in the cross your fingers camp on this one

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Rather than pay two bottom 6ers $3.5 million for four years and hope they don't break down and check off all the areas you want (hits, agitates, 15G-15A, PKs, leadership, etc.) the Rangers can use the Expansion Draft to pick one up, maybe even someone on an ELC or second contract for $.50 on the $1. Someone a team is going to lose.

I mentioned Kolesar on Vegas as someone the Rangers can target. That's one example. This is where analytics can help.

 

[Vitto79]

Rather than pay two bottom 6ers $3.5 million for four years and hope they don't break down and check off all the areas you want (hits, agitates, 15G-15A, PKs, leadership, etc.) the Rangers can use the Expansion Draft to pick one up, maybe even someone on an ELC or second contract for $.50 on the $1. Someone a team is going to lose.

I mentioned Kolesar on Vegas as someone the Rangers can target. That's one example. This is where analytics can help.

Vegas is exempt from the expansion draft

I’d like to see NYR grab a LD to protect and expose Hajek but I don’t think that happened much or at all last expansion draft

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Vegas is exempt from the expansion draft

I’d like to see NYR grab a LD to protect and expose Hajek but I don’t think that happened much or at all last expansion draft

It was an example. Someone like Kolesar. I don't have time to go through all the rosters. I'm not paid for that.

Trent Frederic.....better?

 

[NYSPORTS]

I do find it annoying that a year after not giving Fast 3 yrs x 2 that they are going after a similar player in free agency

that was a concern. Lose to a gritty Carolina team then lose one of your few grit players. The cost to replace him i figured would be more yet they never actually replaced him. Instead Jack Johnson gets some cash and TDA gets sent home. That cash could have been used for Fast or a like player.

 

[jay from jersey]

I love both and I do absolutely believe both will be great players, but my God can we let them perform before we set 10M aside for them? lol

no no no lol, not 10. But I’d do the same think the Avs did with Mack with LaF and Kakko. Especially LaF. MacKinnon is on one of the best value deals in the league right now and 6.3 mill a year. I would absolutely pay that type of contract and bank on potential. They both have the goods. Not only that, after we sign shesty to either 5 or 6 years for around 5-6 mill I would make sure we draft a stud goalie 2,3,4 years down the road.
Hank was amazing for us, but we can’t always count on getting a Hank. Between the pipes we shouldn’t spent more then 5-6 ever on the player IMO. It’s a waste of resources that can be better allocated elsewhere.

 

[NYRangers16]

It's a little bit different than Buch because of draft position pedigree. We can't assume #1 and #2 overall picks would be interested in locking up long term for less right off their ELC. They probably believe in their abilities more than to sell themselves short on their next contract. If Kakko has a decent year next year, say 50 points, it would be unwise for him to rush into some 7yr x 5M deal. He's better off signing a 2yr x 3-4M bridge believing he's going to land a 7yr x 8M off the bridge. I think this path is already written for Kakko after two disappointing years (while year 2 was much better analytically than year 1, the production to get paid is still missing).

I do think it's too early to determine Lafreniere's contract path though. If he blows up this year and next he becomes a guy you pay long term off the ELC in 2 years and it wouldn't be cheap. Big if though.

I’d agree with you, but we lose Lindgren in 2 years due to his bridge. We’ll also lose Buch and Strome this year. And if Shesty signs a bridge we’ll lose him too, or have to overpay a goalie. Cap and asset management matters.

 

[NYRangers16]

no no no lol, not 10. But I’d do the same think the Avs did with Mack with LaF and Kakko. Especially LaF. MacKinnon is on one of the best value deals in the league right now and 6.3 mill a year. I would absolutely pay that type of contract and bank on potential. They both have the goods. Not only that, after we sign shesty to either 5 or 6 years for around 5-6 mill I would make sure we draft a stud goalie 2,3,4 years down the road

Exactly. They didn’t bridge him. They paid him up front and now can ice a full team. These bridge deals are what will keep us from achieving a cup.

 

[jay from jersey]

Enter exhibit A: the St. Louis blues. They checked all of those boxes.

yep. And the main thing they got was amazing goaltending out of nowhere. I don’t think Binnington has performed that well since, or maybe ever again. But for their cup run he was key. That can’t be disputed

 

[NYR Viper]

It was an example. Someone like Kolesar. I don't have time to go through all the rosters. I'm not paid for that.

Trent Frederic.....better?

Count me in for Frederic if he was available…

 

[jay from jersey]

I do find it annoying that a year after not giving Fast 3 yrs x 2 that they are going after a similar player in free agency

Gorton wanted to stay the course
Dolan is telling Drury to speed this process up

I said this very thing last year, and I was told he was easily replaced and that I was making a huge deal out of nothing. This was 1 of Gorts worst moves. Fast isn’t really old and he was well respected in the room, on the ice, by coaches, and fans. Losing all of that for an extra year of 2mill is just straight dumb

 

[IDvsEGO]

Exactly. They didn’t bridge him. They paid him up front and now can ice a full team. These bridge deals are what will keep us from achieving a cup.

Thats a bad argument, they didnt have to bridge him and got him on a cheap deal because his last RFA year he'd underperformed. Had he balled out he'd be on a much more expensive contract.
We may luck out with Kakko and Laf, but that would also mean they'd underperform the next few years, which would hurt us.

 

[NYRangers16]

I said this very thing last year, and I was told he was easily replaced and that I was making a huge deal out of nothing. This was 1 of Gorts worst moves. Fast isn’t really old and he was well respected in the room, on the ice, by coaches, and fans. Losing all of that for an extra year of 2mill is just straight dumb

And we get Jack Johnson instead lol. Rooney and Blackwell we’re smart adds though. I’m starting to see Dolan’s logic. Gorton belongs in a scouting dept. Has set us up great. But these contracts are a mess. I’d like to assume Drury knows better, but we’ll see.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I said this very thing last year, and I was told he was easily replaced and that I was making a huge deal out of nothing. This was 1 of Gorts worst moves. Fast isn’t really old and he was well respected in the room, on the ice, by coaches, and fans. Losing all of that for an extra year of 2mill is just straight dumb

I didnt love losing fast, but we bitched all year about blackwell being w/ panarin and strome. We bitched the year before about fast in that spot. WTF do you think we'd be doing right now if we locked up fast.
We'd be talking about how fast is blocking kratsov or kakko from the top 6 and that it was a bad contract because quinn won't move fast from that spot.
Fast's deal is one I'd have been fine with if it came with a 4th line clause. "may only play above the 4th line in case of injury replacement and PK".

 

[NYRangers16]

Thats a bad argument, they didnt have to bridge him and got him on a cheap deal because his last RFA year he'd underperformed. Had he balled out he'd be on a much more expensive contract.
We may luck out with Kakko and Laf, but that would also mean they'd underperform the next few years, which would hurt us.

But you pay for those development years to open up a cup run. Solid argument imo. Also neither blew the league away this year. You pay for potential and trust your scouts and evaluation. Otherwise you pay more or limit yourself.

[edit] it’s not like Kakko or Laf put up amazing numbers. You pay for future production so you supplement later. How do you think Vegas afforded Stone? They locked up Tuch at what, 4.25?

 

[jay from jersey]

I didnt love losing fast, but we bitched all year about blackwell being w/ panarin and strome. We bitched the year before about fast in that spot. WTF do you think we'd be doing right now if we locked up fast.
We'd be talking about how fast is blocking kratsov or kakko from the top 6 and that it was a bad contract because quinn won't move fast from that spot.
Fast's deal is one I'd have been fine with if it came with a 4th line clause. "may only play above the 4th line in case of injury replacement and PK".

Yea no doubt I don’t want him anywhere on top 2 lines. No with Kreids dropping to 3rd line duty I would want to lock fast in on 4th line as well. That’s a great point. It sucks we can’t force these coaches where they should play guys. Their going to put them in spots they want where they think it gives them the best chance to win, not the best chance to develop.

 

[IDvsEGO]

But you pay for those development years to open up a cup run. Solid argument imo. Also neither blew the league away this year. You pay for potential and trust your scouts and evaluation. Otherwise you pay more or limit yourself.

[edit] it’s not like Kakko or Laf put up amazing numbers. You pay for future production so you supplement later. How do you think Vegas afforded Stone? They locked up Tuch at what, 4.25?

Right you pay for those development years with subpar seasons. The exact thing that got Quinn/ Gorton fired. Vegas is not a team I want to mirror in terms of cap management. Vegas is that guy who forgets about a mid-term but ends up acing it. They're going to get nailed by bad cap management soon enough.