Speculation: Roster Building Thread V (2021 Offseason) - Hold them horses, only 45 days left until the draft!

[Ola]

Lets just keep all of those pieces and pretend that Eichel is on our IR all year. Best of both worlds!

That is pretty smart. I wonder if there would be much fuzz around the league of Eichel like 5 years in a row only played in the POs for us.

 

[Inferno]

Sigh. Rangers made it to the scf with Rick Nash (he had a bad playoffs for sure)..but his presence took heat off of those around him. And as an asset we essentially got back our #1ld our #2ld and our #2c if I'm remembering right.

I'll bow out here though..you're not gonna hange my mind. I'm not gonna change yours.

I'm also not always about getting the high priced superstar player.

HATED Gomez, Drury, redden, msl, yandle, etc etc


Loved shanny, jagr, Nash, gabby and ive definitely been all aboard the train for other players like captain hotdog when he was available, Marian hossa, etc

It's not about the superstar, it's about the right player at the right time with the right assets going out to fill the right holes

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Sigh. Rangers made it to the scf with Rick Nash (he had a bad playoffs for sure)..but his presence took heat off of those around him. And as an asset we essentially got back our #1ld our #2ld and our #2c if I'm remembering right.

I'll bow out here though..you're not gonna hange my mind. I'm not gonna change yours.

I'm also not always about getting the high priced superstar player.

HATED Gomez, Drury, redden, msl, yandle, etc etc


Loved shanny, jagr, Nash, gabby and ive definitely been all aboard the train for other players like captain hotdog when he was available, Marian hossa, etc

It's not about the superstar, it's about the right player at the right time with the right assets going out to fill the right holes

It's insane to see the players involved in that trade tree currently in the organizzation.

Buchnevich
Miller
Lindgren
Strome
Ciccolini
Barron
Skinner
Wall

Absolutely wild! And we had Nash for 6 years in which we won a President's Trophy, made a Cup final and were a legit contender. Yeah, he could have been better, but he wasn't bad.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Not to be rude, but having been around here for a while, you always get overly excited for the problematic big name/highly drafted players. You did the same thing with Nash and mocked those of us who saw his problems as well (no real playoff experience, had a bad reputation in terms of work ethic, wasn't willing to go to the dirty areas of the ice, etc).

Eichel will be 25 in the first month of the season. He's missed at least 14 games in four of his six NHL seasons. His injuries seem to be getting progressively more serious as his career moves forward.

You dismiss his cap hit, but cap hits need to be contextualized. This team already has big contracts in Trouba, Panarin, and Kreider. They have big contracts on the way (within 1 to 2 seasons) for Zibanejad, Fox, and Buchnevich. Unless things go horribly wrong, we can expect to be paying bigger money to Kakko, Laf, and Shesterkin and moderate money to Kravtsov, Chytil, and Miller (on top of Lindgren). Where is this money coming from? You add an Eichel, it's going to cost in multiple ways. You ONLY seem concerned in initial acquisition cost (which, if Buffalo fans are even close, is absurdly high). But are you prepared to lose that package AND Zib or some of the young guns? Because that's what will happen. In a cap league, you can't have top dollar players at every single position. The lottery wins defined the structure of this team for us. We are going to be expensive at wing and D (due to depth and quality). That leaves enough cap for a top 1c, a good 2c, and bargains at 3/4c. This dream that we can ice two #1 centers without losing comparable pieces from elsewhere on the roster is absurd.

And on top of all of that, there's the fact that Eichel isn't particularly good on defense, isn't physical at all, has even more character red flags than Nash did, and adds ANOTHER center to the mix who has a bad faceoff percentage.

People want him because he's a big name. That's it. That name has convinced people of what they think he COULD be in a Rangers jersey (even though he's rarely actually been that in a Sabres jersey). Buyer beware.

Also to add--this team needs to be very careful with how much cap flexibility they maintain. The one team in the league that has shown that it isn't averse to weaponizing offer sheets is Montreal. You can bet your bupkis that the Canadiens have Laf's 1st RFA date circled on their calendar. I'd rather not lose Laf because we weren't able to match as a result of carrying the broken carcass of what used to be Jack Eichel on the salary cap.

So you can dismiss our "reasons" but I don't see you doing anything but hoping that they don't come to pass. The whole logic behind acquiring Eichel is that is might work if he (for the first time) stays healthy and the cap doubles. I prefer to team build in the real world.

Clap clap

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Will be interesting to see the moves the Avs make this offseason after another relatively early playoff exit. Landeskog and Saad are UFA. Have to decide between Graves and Toews on who to protect (or trade one before the draft).

 

[egelband]

Not to be rude, but having been around here for a while, you always get overly excited for the problematic big name/highly drafted players. You did the same thing with Nash and mocked those of us who saw his problems as well (no real playoff experience, had a bad reputation in terms of work ethic, wasn't willing to go to the dirty areas of the ice, etc).

Eichel will be 25 in the first month of the season. He's missed at least 14 games in four of his six NHL seasons. His injuries seem to be getting progressively more serious as his career moves forward.

You dismiss his cap hit, but cap hits need to be contextualized. This team already has big contracts in Trouba, Panarin, and Kreider. They have big contracts on the way (within 1 to 2 seasons) for Zibanejad, Fox, and Buchnevich. Unless things go horribly wrong, we can expect to be paying bigger money to Kakko, Laf, and Shesterkin and moderate money to Kravtsov, Chytil, and Miller (on top of Lindgren). Where is this money coming from? You add an Eichel, it's going to cost in multiple ways. You ONLY seem concerned in initial acquisition cost (which, if Buffalo fans are even close, is absurdly high). But are you prepared to lose that package AND Zib or some of the young guns? Because that's what will happen. In a cap league, you can't have top dollar players at every single position. The lottery wins defined the structure of this team for us. We are going to be expensive at wing and D (due to depth and quality). That leaves enough cap for a top 1c, a good 2c, and bargains at 3/4c. This dream that we can ice two #1 centers without losing comparable pieces from elsewhere on the roster is absurd.

And on top of all of that, there's the fact that Eichel isn't particularly good on defense, isn't physical at all, has even more character red flags than Nash did, and adds ANOTHER center to the mix who has a bad faceoff percentage.

People want him because he's a big name. That's it. That name has convinced people of what they think he COULD be in a Rangers jersey (even though he's rarely actually been that in a Sabres jersey). Buyer beware.

Also to add--this team needs to be very careful with how much cap flexibility they maintain. The one team in the league that has shown that it isn't averse to weaponizing offer sheets is Montreal. You can bet your bupkis that the Canadiens have Laf's 1st RFA date circled on their calendar. I'd rather not lose Laf because we weren't able to match as a result of carrying the broken carcass of what used to be Jack Eichel on the salary cap.

So you can dismiss our "reasons" but I don't see you doing anything but hoping that they don't come to pass. The whole logic behind acquiring Eichel is that is might work if he (for the first time) stays healthy and the cap doubles. I prefer to team build in the real world.

Yeah. This sounds right to me, broadly.
We could probably fit in Eichel but it has to be at the expense of probably Mika, right? Or Strome, Buch...something like that. I assume the Rangers can probably figure it out but, yeah. At what point do we stop collecting the skill guys and start rounding out the roster.
I think the Eichel contract is probably better than, say, the Tavaras one for Toronto. But it might cripple us similarly.

 

[Inferno]

I'd rather have eichel than buch or strome.

Wing is our strength. Use it to bolster our 1 weakness.

 

[GAGLine]

I'd rather have eichel than buch or strome.

Wing is our strength. Use it to bolster our 1 weakness.

What does Eichel add to this team that we don't have?

 

[Fitzy]

I have no problem with getting Eichel if he is indeed cheap

Cheap to trade for isn't the only consideration.

Eichel forces a lot of other tough decisions, including Zibanejad.

He's likely given the captaincy and told to lead this group to a cup.

We've no idea what kind of playoff performer he is.

But perhaps the biggest factor- All we've heard from Edge is that NYR have been cautious about committing to Zibanejad long term because of concerns about his durability. Eichel shares a lot of the same challenges. He's younger, sure, but he's already making a higher AAV than Zibanejad would get in a long term extension. If you're telling me we should trade the farm just because we are more worried about the last 2-3 years of a Zibby deal rather than Eichel's deal- that's a tough sales pitch for me.

Even if the NYR offer is something embarrassing like Buchnevich+Georgiev+1st (The equivalent of the insult Sather offered for Heatley) we still have a lot of thinking to do about how he fits in this roster moving forward and the major trickle effects it will have through our hypothetical next window.

 

[Fitzy]

What does Eichel add to this team that we don't have?

A sexy name leaguewide, mostly.

 

[bbny]

I'd rather have eichel than buch or strome.

Wing is our strength. Use it to bolster our 1 weakness.

Well, sure, but that's not a 1 for 1 thing though. If Buch/Strome come in around 5.5-6 on next contract, it's really one of those guys plus 4-4.5M in cap space vs. just Eichel. How we utilize that cap space is really important. What if we could land a guy like Elias Lindholm @ 4.85M? Now you are talking, roughly, a scenario where it's Buchnevich + Lindholm vs Eichel. I know which side I pick there and it's not really close for me.

 

[GAGLine]

Well, sure, but that's not a 1 for 1 thing though. If Buch/Strome come in around 5.5-6 on next contract, it's really one of those guys plus 4-4.5M in cap space vs. just Eichel. How we utilize that cap space is really important. What if we could land a guy like Elias Lindholm @ 4.85M? Now you are talking, roughly, a scenario where it's Buchnevich + Lindholm vs Eichel. I know which side I pick there and it's not really close for me.

And that doesn't even take into account the assets we'd have to give up to get Eichel.

 

[Inferno]

At this point I'd wager lindholm will cost more than eichel.

 

[Inferno]

I think ppl are gonna be shocked at what eichel goes for. It's not going to be this insane package that everyone thinks it will.

All the negatives you guys are listing..are exactly why eichel will not cost as much as ppl think.

All the pros you guys list for a guy like lindholm... Are exactly why he would cost an arm and a leg

 

[jay from jersey]

Lets just keep all of those pieces and pretend that Eichel is on our IR all year. Best of both worlds!

I’m absolutely with you on being cautious. But Eichel could no doubt be a coup for the Rangers is they get him. The prospect of it is looking less likely though, Sabres won’t trade him to us for a bargain price and Drury won’t pony up premium assets for him until he knows that the injury hasn’t completely forever changed his game from what he was. And he shouldn’t.

I Don’t know how people think it’s possible for this team to keep Eichel and Zibby. It’s simple math. You can do it til the end of the season and Zibby is gone for good. We get to chose 1 only.
If Eichel was healthy, I think the rangers would be better served with him as their 1C rather the. Zibby for the next half decade at the same money, even with the assets we would have to pony up for him. I think Eichel plays a more stiff style of play at center then Zibby though both are very talented. When Eichel is going he carries a line like panarin does. I think Zibby is the better pure shooter but need more help from the wings to create offense.
Right now, the safest course of action is to resign Zibby for 5 years and use some of our assets to help the roster elsewhere. Unless Eichel forces himself here on a bargain price, I just don’t see Drury pulling the trigger on a deal at this current time.
If he’s not the same player, that contract becomes an albatross real quick. Only way I see Eichel coming here unfortunately at this time is if he forces himself here and it doesn’t cost us much to get him.

 

[Mac n Gs]

What does Eichel add to this team that we don't have?

I mean, whether you want him or not, Eichel definitely adds the younger, long-term 1C option that's currently missing from the organization. Now, whether you actually need that type of player when we have so much depth on the wings is another story, but Eichel definitely does have a long-term fit here.

I love him as a player, but I'm not too interested in the cap workaround that'll be required to add a long-term $10M contract to the books, especially with post-ELC contracts looming for our key younger guys like Fox, Kakko, Lafreniere, and Shesterkin.

 

[GAGLine]

I think ppl are gonna be shocked at what eichel goes for. It's not going to be this insane package that everyone thinks it will.

All the negatives you guys are listing..are exactly why eichel will not cost as much as ppl think.

All the pros you guys list for a guy like lindholm... Are exactly why he would cost an arm and a leg

So you want him because you think he will be cheap to acquire, and then somehow all those negatives will disappear?

And I ask again, what does Eichel give us that we don't already have?

 

[Inferno]

So you want him because you think he will be cheap to acquire, and then somehow all those negatives will disappear?

And I ask again, what does Eichel give us that we don't already have?

A 24 almost 25 year old number 1 center who will be in his prime as all our young wingers are in there's?

 

[NYSPORTS]

I mean, whether you want him or not, Eichel definitely adds the younger, long-term 1C option that's currently missing from the organization. Now, whether you actually need that type of player when we have so much depth on the wings is another story, but Eichel definitely does have a long-term fit here.
.

why are you dismissing health? Better yet, how are you dismissing it?

 

[GAGLine]

I mean, whether you want him or not, Eichel definitely adds the younger, long-term 1C option that's currently missing from the organization.

I was looking for what he adds on the ice. Eichel is very skilled, but we already have a ton of skill. Acquiring Eichel would cost us more skill than he would return, both in terms of the cost to acquire him and in terms of the players who would need to be moved, sooner or later, to accommodate his cap hit.

Is Eichel good defensively? Is he hard to play against? Those are the things we need more of.

 

[GAGLine]

A 24 almost 25 year old number 1 center who will be in his prime as all our young wingers are in there's?

Is this an answer to my question? It doesn't look like one. What does he do on the ice that we don't already have? Other than being younger than Mika, what does he bring to the table that Mika doesn't?

 

[RGY]

I was looking for what he adds on the ice. Eichel is very skilled, but we already have a ton of skill. Acquiring Eichel would cost us more skill than he would return, both in terms of the cost to acquire him and in terms of the players who would need to be moved, sooner or later, to accommodate his cap hit.

Is Eichel good defensively? Is he hard to play against? Those are the things we need more of.

Gallant will teach him. Gallant will be the best teacher he has ever had at this level.

 

[SA16]

Is this an answer to my question? It doesn't look like one. What does he do on the ice that we don't already have? Other than being younger than Mika, what does he bring to the table that Mika doesn't?

Who cares? Why would you want one Mika when you could have...two Mikas?

People, yet again, have this insane thing about redundancy as if it's a bad thing to have multiple good players. Wouldn't ever want two 1C quality players on this tea.

There is zero difference in adding X WAR via offense or X WAR via defense or X WAR via a gritty player. It all nets out the same.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I was looking for what he adds on the ice. Eichel is very skilled, but we already have a ton of skill. Acquiring Eichel would cost us more skill than he would return, both in terms of the cost to acquire him and in terms of the players who would need to be moved, sooner or later, to accommodate his cap hit.

Is Eichel good defensively? Is he hard to play against? Those are the things we need more of.

He’s a better all-around player than you probably give him credit for because of how bad Buffalo was as a team. Eichel is a better all-around player than Zibanejad and can absolutely take over a game just like Panarin can. But again, with the uncertainty of his health situation (I think he’ll probably end up being fine) and maneuvering we’d have to do to make it work, I can live with not pursuing him. Plus, I think the harder to play against quotient can be filled better by upgrading on Cs like Strome (keep Chytil), Howden, and Rooney.

Here’s an analytics breakdown of Eichel over the last 3 years. He was also playing really well this year despite having an unsustainably low shooting%:

 

[bbny]

At this point I'd wager lindholm will cost more than eichel.

I think it'd be about the same, which is why I left it out of the post. Many would assume Eichel will cost more just because he is a better player.

Lindholm was, admittedly, a best case kind of example to illustrate the point. He's a top value contract in the league. But there's a lot of great ways to utilize that cap space savings between Eichel and Buch.