Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXVII

[EdJovanovski]

he will just add to the country club primadonna vibe

Nah he's nothing like the rest of the team, our team has so many milquetoast guys without a personality. Kravtsov has swagger, charisma, the looks, the neck, he has it all. He's way more confident and not afraid to shoot, try flashy moves, etc. Our other young kids could learn a lot from him. He's the ultimate alpha. And every single season he is a beast in the playoffs.

 

[17futurecap]

If Motte was willing to take under two million, he would still be in Vancouver, he’s a 4th liner that’s going to cash in, in 4th line terms, stay away.

 

[n8]

traditional roster lineup is

scoring line 1
scoring line 2
shut down line
checking line

In 1994 graves-messier were effectively a checking scoring line
tikkanen-larmer were effectively a shutdown scoring line
nemchinov and mactavish were both shutdown centers

detroit had that super checking line of maltby-draper-mccartny
hall of fame 1st line (shanny-Y-hull)
fedorov was a consistent selke finalist

tampa has stamkos, kucherov, point, cirelli, palat, killorn as consistent top 6
they've shuffled their roster but they consistently have had checking - shutdown role players in their bottom 6.

this summer, I want to look for players that can fill in shutdown and checking roles more. I want young players to work to develop some of those qualities as well. I want coaching to help develop some of those qualities as well. laf, chytil, and kakko all need to get stronger and better at defense. they need to become a trio who can grind up the opposition and punish teams for focusing their defensive resources on our other players - or draw those tough assignments and give the other lines an easier time. the lines need to develop more dimensions. more threats. back in the day, Detroit could throw maltby-draper-mccartny out against anyone. Tampa would do that with coleman-gourde-goodrow. we don't have a line like that. we probably need more of that.

players like holmstrom and maroon pop a goal in now and then but they also wear the opponents down with punishing hits.

 

[Ola]

I need a dissertation on the royal road and how we are only at the infancy of its effect on the game and how the '15 era Lightning were the buggers who really paved the way. And in conclusion we should pry TyJo from Chicago at 50% because he'd be bazilly next to Panarin and as a RH shot on PP1 as a discount Strome.

Never speak to me like that again, apologize now!!

 

[Clark Kellogg]

My favorite Filip Chytil memory in the playoffs was against Carolina when Brendan Smith went to check Filip in the corner and Chytil stuck out his butt and knocked Smith to the ice. That was a Jagr moment.

 

[AirGut]

I know people here hate him for the most part but how would you guys feel about Malkin at the 2C position for a year at a reasonable amount? Isn't he buddies with Panarin? Would it benefit a young headcase like Kravtsov? Would if truly fill our 2C need?

I oddly enough could see Malkin coming to a team like NYR and being very open to it as opposed to guys like Bergeron or what we heard about Giroux vowing not to come here. The problem is he is old and made of glass these days so the risk is all but printed out for us.

Kreider-Zibanejad-Lafreniere
Panarin-Malkin-Kravtsov
Motte-Chytil-Kakko
Blais-Goodrow-Reaves

 

[Ola]

traditional roster lineup is

scoring line 1
scoring line 2
shut down line
checking line

In 1994 graves-messier were effectively a checking scoring line
tikkanen-larmer were effectively a shutdown scoring line
nemchinov and mactavish were both shutdown centers

detroit had that super checking line of maltby-draper-mccartny
hall of fame 1st line (shanny-Y-hull)
fedorov was a consistent selke finalist

tampa has stamkos, kucherov, point, cirelli, palat, killorn as consistent top 6
they've shuffled their roster but they consistently have had checking - shutdown role players in their bottom 6.

this summer, I want to look for players that can fill in shutdown and checking roles more. I want young players to work to develop some of those qualities as well. I want coaching to help develop some of those qualities as well. laf, chytil, and kakko all need to get stronger and better at defense. they need to become a trio who can grind up the opposition and punish teams for focusing their defensive resources on our other players - or draw those tough assignments and give the other lines an easier time. the lines need to develop more dimensions. more threats. back in the day, Detroit could throw maltby-draper-mccartny out against anyone. Tampa would do that with coleman-gourde-goodrow. we don't have a line like that. we probably need more of that.

players like holmstrom and maroon pop a goal in now and then but they also wear the opponents down with punishing hits.

At the same time, those pre 05’ teams would have had 120m cap hits by today standard. Colorado, Detroit and Dallas’ Cup winners.

Back then, it was more or less only about getting you hands on as much talent as possible. No hinderance beyond being able to acquire the rights to players.

So just how much is the game about getting a high production/$ as opposed to just getting the production period? Today, every single PO team could improve a ton if they got 10m extra cap space over 3 years, right? It’s perhaps not “all” about finding production/$, but so much about it is.

There are different ways to look at this, but one way is that flawed players are cheap and complete players are expensive — you pay a lot for pedigree in this league. And if you can make use of combining players that are flawed in different ways, or play an extreme style that doesn’t expose their flaws, you can benefit.

Coleman-Gourde-Goodrow is a perfect example of that. Last year, they were as hard of a line to play against as existed in this league. Coleman alone doesn’t make a line super hard to play against. Neither does Goodrow. But Gourde supported his wingers in the areas they were weak while they supported him. In turn, all three where helped by Tampa’s great ability to play a high defense and create turnover.

I am just afraid of that if we try to build a perfect team against the blueprint that was put in place before the cap was introduced, there is like barely even any theoretical chance of any team putting that a roster that meats those criterias on the ice under the cap.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Is there a chance that Gallant has told Lafreniere to convert to C? The whole "we 100% expect him to be in the top-6 next year" is a bit of an eyebrow-raiser considering he's still going to be behind Kreider and Panarin on the left side. We already know he's not very comfortable playing RW and our two biggest needs as of now are 2C and 3C. Is it possible that this is the offseason that Laf focuses on his C skills and plays there next year?

 

[Synergy27]

Coleman-Gourde-Goodrow is a perfect example of that. Last year, they were as hard of a line to play against as existed in this league.

You need to build a line like that with players before they become known as those kind of players. I.e, when they are cheap.

Goodrow does his job, but at his cap hit, the best we can do is break even.

The best we can do at Bread’s cap hit is break even. Same with Trouba’s.

I think there’s room to profit on the Zib, Fox, Shesty, and Kreider deals.

We need to profit on whatever deals we sign in the bottom six. We can’t pay guys to bring that kind of game. We need to find them, let them play that game, then let someone else pay them. Rinse. Repeat.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Im super excited for the next 5 years. My only beef is that we traded this years 1st away, I never believed this was our year and sending that pick away was short sighted. We need a lot of entry level deals to stay competitive for the next 5 to 7 years and moving 1st round picks at this point sabotages that. But, I'm really excited, most of the pieces are in place, its a great time to be a ranger fan.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Is there a chance that Gallant has told Lafreniere to convert to C? The whole "we 100% expect him to be in the top-6 next year" is a bit of an eyebrow-raiser considering he's still going to be behind Kreider and Panarin on the left side. We already know he's not very comfortable playing RW and our two biggest needs as of now are 2C and 3C. Is it possible that this is the offseason that Laf focuses on his C skills and plays there next year?

He said he’s going to work on getting more comfortable on the right side.

 

[mas0764]

Nic Roy would be an under the radar acquisition that makes a lot of sense for the Rangers. I hope they explore it.

Not a bad acquisition but not for Nils.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

He said he’s going to work on getting more comfortable on the right side.

Oh, I didn't catch his exit interview. Thanks.

 

[mas0764]

Panarin-Mika-Krieder
Lafreniere-Chytil-Kravtsov
Motte-Stastny-Kakko
Blais-Goodrow-Hunt/Reaves

Lindgren-Fox
Miller-Trouba
Braun/Z.Jones-Schneider

Igor
Charlie Lindgren

Continue to bank on internal improvement. We have our stars in place and locked up long term. Drury & Gallant now need to put everyone in a position to better succeed. Part of that is building a bottom 6 that plays defense and can shutdown opponents. Laf on PP1, KAM taking Trouba's spot on PP2. See if Chytil or Kakko can handle PK time. With rough estimates, the roster above has about ~2mil in cap space. Gives us deadline flexibility & flexibility for the summer of 2023.

Kakko can handle PK.

 

[n8]

At the same time, those pre 05’ teams would have had 120m cap hits by today standard. Colorado, Detroit and Dallas’ Cup winners.

Back then, it was more or less only about getting you hands on as much talent as possible. No hinderance beyond being able to acquire the rights to players.

So just how much is the game about getting a high production/$ as opposed to just getting the production period? Today, every single PO team could improve a ton if they got 10m extra cap space over 3 years, right? It’s perhaps not “all” about finding production/$, but so much about it is.

There are different ways to look at this, but one way is that flawed players are cheap and complete players are expensive — you pay a lot for pedigree in this league. And if you can make use of combining players that are flawed in different ways, or play an extreme style that doesn’t expose their flaws, you can benefit.

Coleman-Gourde-Goodrow is a perfect example of that. Last year, they were as hard of a line to play against as existed in this league. Coleman alone doesn’t make a line super hard to play against. Neither does Goodrow. But Gourde supported his wingers in the areas they were weak while they supported him. In turn, all three where helped by Tampa’s great ability to play a high defense and create turnover.

I am just afraid of that if we try to build a perfect team against the blueprint that was put in place before the cap was introduced, there is like barely even any theoretical chance of any team putting that a roster that meats those criterias on the ice under the cap.

great pre-cap points. I think the challenge in the modern age is to get 2 scoring lines that aren't one dimensional (those ones get shut down easily and then can't contribute in other ways) that don't blow your cap out of the water and then finding the right mix on your bottom 6. But I think your main point is centers are more important which I can get behind. I kinda wanted Jack Hughes over Kakko in 2019 simply because we needed a center. Ryan Strome hadn't clicked with Panarin yet. And a few years later we still need a center.

 

[mas0764]

Ask a simple question.

Would Tampa want Chytil as a top9 center? Does he fit their mold?

Doesn't mean he can't develop his 2way game... but he's too soft. It's not a size thing. He's just not tenacious or aggressive enough. I don't think that is something that comes with time... you either have it or you don't.

We need players with an attitude. The country club mindset is wearing thin on me. Point and Cirelli are smaller than him but play with a lot more fight and snarl IMO. That's the difference

We have way too many gentle giants. It's been an issue for too long. I've grown numb to it... All I want is for players to finish checks and play a 'mans game'.

What are we getting back???

 

[n8]

Kakko can handle PK.

I wish there was some sort of PK camp Laf, Chytil, Kakko, and Kravtsov could go to over the summer.

 

[mas0764]

I wish there was some sort of PK camp Laf, Chytil, Kakko, and Kravtsov could go to over the summer.

There is, it’s called Rangers should pay for trainers to work on offseason skills.

 

[Payote75]

I've been thinking of laffy as a center since mid season but just figured might be much. He seems to have all the attributes of a center he also really really improved defensively and might be up for a challenge like that knowing how important he becomes to the franchise. He would need 2 sniping wingers but I'd definitely check to see if that's something he is interested in faceoffs of course would be a concern. I definitely know though not at RW he looked lost there.

 

[bleedblue94]

Johan Larsson would be another good cheap pickup. Center and wing. PK. Agitator. Physical player too. Check his stats in Washington. His analytical numbers are amazing. On top of that, he does not get sheltered zone starts. In fact, he is someone that you put on your shutdown line.

See what he wants. He's the perfect player to go and get that can play on your 3rd and 4th lines and matchup against good players and move the puck from the defensive zone and end up in the offensive zone.

If they don't, he better not end up on Tampa. He'd be a perfect replacement for some of the players they are likely to lose.

Doubt he will be that cheap. He was in demand at the deadline and will have suitor this summer

 

[Doctyl]

Im super excited for the next 5 years. My only beef is that we traded this years 1st away, I never believed this was our year and sending that pick away was short sighted. We need a lot of entry level deals to stay competitive for the next 5 to 7 years and moving 1st round picks at this point sabotages that. But, I'm really excited, most of the pieces are in place, its a great time to be a ranger fan.

I’d argue this playoff experience was more than worth a late 1st in a weak draft

 

[bleedblue94]

Ask a simple question.

Would Tampa want Chytil as a top9 center? Does he fit their mold?

Doesn't mean he can't develop his 2way game... but he's too soft. It's not a size thing. He's just not tenacious or aggressive enough. I don't think that is something that comes with time... you either have it or you don't.

We need players with an attitude. The country club mindset is wearing thin on me. Point and Cirelli are smaller than him but play with a lot more fight and snarl IMO. That's the difference

We have way too many gentle giants. It's been an issue for too long. I've grown numb to it... All I want is for players to finish checks and play a 'mans game'.

I think that's a big reason it was so refreshing to see laf in these playoffs. He and Miller and to a lesser extent Schneider all were complete sobs to play against but laf really stood out. I was critical during the season wanting to see some things that distinguish him as a player and in the playoffs we finally started seeing it more and more.

 

[bleedblue94]

Im super excited for the next 5 years. My only beef is that we traded this years 1st away, I never believed this was our year and sending that pick away was short sighted. We need a lot of entry level deals to stay competitive for the next 5 to 7 years and moving 1st round picks at this point sabotages that. But, I'm really excited, most of the pieces are in place, its a great time to be a ranger fan.

Trading that 1st (which was only a first if it landed as a pick 29-32) basically bought this young group their playoff lessons at a much younger age than anyone could have expected. Sure you'd love to have the 1st, but what the kids on this team got from the last two months is more valuable than the pick.

 

[duhmetreE]

He doesn't really need it though. He was a wagon for a big portion of this run.

I'm all for adding more of it (as long as it comes with other things, like actually being good) but let other guys take care of that stuff.

It comes with the caveat in that he needs to improve defensively.

He’s not there and imo as long as he doesn’t grow defensively and is still a top9C, we will have issues.

It has to be more than one dimension.

I think that's a big reason it was so refreshing to see laf in these playoffs. He and Miller and to a lesser extent Schneider all were complete sobs to play against but laf really stood out. I was critical during the season wanting to see some things that distinguish him as a player and in the playoffs we finally started seeing it more and more.

He’s the literal prototype in what I want in a player.

 

[bleedblue94]

It comes with the caveat in that he needs to improve defensively.

He’s not there and imo as long as he doesn’t grow defensively and is still a top9C, we will have issues.

It has to be more than one dimension.


He’s the literal prototype in what I want in a player.

I said all along year three was going to be the year we needed to see the big step from him and after this playoffs I think we will see a much more consistent player. You could, COULD, very well see 20/30 next year from him which would be terrific. After that everything should fall into place. I also don't see the huberdeau comparison that a lot of people tried to toss around here, I think in the playoffs you saw a much more aggressive player type that will operate in directly areas. Huberdeau isn't that at all. I really liked someone that brought up shanahan. I can see that comparison but in a modern day mold. The bottom line is laffy grew and evolved by miles during this playoff run. He was a child in the regular season and he started playing like a man in the playoffs, and he was unafraid to back down from anyone which was so wonderful to see.