Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXVII

[mas0764]

Totally disagree those guys will be trade bait. Adam fox is a stud a favorite a wonderful player and if you had 6 Adam foxes you still wouldn't win a cup. You can't win in the playoffs without troubas. And you can't discount what he has meant to millers and Schneiders of the world its invaluable and others. It's like this deep run didn't show us how we need dudes to push people out of shestys line of sight? How just speed and stick checking won't work in the playoffs or how every team kept running shesty over. Rangers need net presence on both side of the ice.

You can't pay $8m to a guy who only offers what Trouba does. He made too many mistakes and isn't enough of a shut down defender. You need guys who play .... not only like Adam Fox.... sure, but you can get that for way less than $8m, and we will.

Trouba didn't push literally anyone out of Shesty's way in the Tampa series, so you are making my point for me.

I hate that I'm having to point out all the negatives here to make this obvious argument apparent, because Trouba is still a decent enough player on a second pairing.

But you cannot stomach paying him $8m in a cap world. You just can't. You have to pay Laf, you have to pay Miller, you have to pay a young 2C, you have to pay Kakko. He's not more vital to this franchise than any of those players.

And before you tell me how he's better than Kakko right now (debatable), keep in mind that the entire idea of a multi year contract is to project into the future.

 

[rangers1314]

People can hate on Trouba all they want. When he was bad this postseason, he was BAD.

He also had a very, very good season for us. His partner also took a massive leap, which isn't nothing. He did the same for Josh Morrissey in Winnipeg. I'd like to see if he can be Jones caddy next season.

I agree he is overpaid. I agree he's probably moved after his contract moves to a modified NTC. But he was good for the Rangers this season overall. He's also only 28. I don't see why he can't be just as good next season.

 

[bleedblue94]

There is a difference between crediting their defense and knocking our forwards.

Yes, size is valuable and the Tampa D have that. But as much as that plays a role, our forward group really likes perimiter play and as a 5 man unit we have a reluctance to even TRY to go to the net. Tampa D don't need to box out if we won't try to get in the box. Thats why the kid line was successful. Nieve, young, fearless, would play perimiter through cycles, go low to high, but also get into the soft area in slot or work netfront. Our top guys seem to not want to do that, which stops our D from taking shots, like Sergachev when he scored once and the other one went off Palats shinpad. Screens and tips.

We do have players that'll go to the net, and even those guys were ineffective in the series overall. I'm well aware I just how perimeter this group likes to play, but that doesn't explain the fact nobody was able to muscle through to get to rebounds during basically the entire series

 

[mas0764]

I think Schneider can become our next Trouba. I think Trouba has been great. His best play as a Ranger so far was during this season and in the first 2 rounds of the Playoffs. But 8 million is not a cap hit we can afford for him for too much longer, ESPECIALLY when I think the Rangers also believe Schenider can learn from him, and eventually take his spot at a much cheaper price.

I don't hate Trouba, just have the feeling that he won't be around when this team (hopefully) does win a Cup. Unless its this upcoming 2 seasons, which he'll be here for. Think he's gone in summer 24 when he submits his 15 team no trade list after his NMC expires

Schneider WILL become Trouba's equal in the not too distant future, if not his superior. Miller also has size, Robertson has size, and Lindgren plays big.

It's plenty of size back there.

I think '24 is the absolute latest Trouba remains here. They are going to be very tightly squeezed to re-sign Laf, Miller, Kakko, now Kravtsov, and a 2C before then. I think he or someone else expensive goes.

 

[kinger8998]

I think Braden Schneider is a fantastic young defenseman with a bright future. He deserved to be drafted exactly where he was. But I also believe at the same time the Rangers specifically drafted him because they felt that we would develop into the role Trouba fills right now, durign cost-controlled years that will be much much cheaper than $8M.

Realistically, ideally, I think Troubas NMC should have ended come the end of the 22-23 season, but that extra season will only allow Schneider to develop a little more into the role. Hopefully payign Trouba 8 isn't what stops us from having a missing piece potentially in the next 2 seasons. But after that, I think you see Trouba out the door. I think Schneider can bring his physicality, with a little more foot speed and puck skill. Will be a fine tradeoff and will allow us to have a player of that ilk to continue through our cup contending window

 

[mas0764]

People can hate on Trouba all they want. When he was bad this postseason, he was BAD.

He also had a very, very good season for us. His partner also took a massive leap, which isn't nothing. He did the same for Josh Morrissey in Winnipeg. I'd like to see if he can be Jones caddy next season.

I agree he is overpaid. I agree he's probably moved after his contract moves to a modified NTC. But he was good for the Rangers this season overall. He's also only 28. I don't see why he can't be just as good next season.

He probably will be just as good next season. Maybe even a little better. That doesn't change the argument that we may need his money to pay Laf, to pay Miller, etc.

 

[kinger8998]

We do have players that'll go to the net, and even those guys were ineffective in the series overall. I'm well aware I just how parameter this group likes to play, but that doesn't explain the fact nobody was able to muscle through to get to rebounds during basically the entire series

Our players that will go to the net consist of Lafreniere, Chytil, Kakko, Goodrow, Motte, Blais, and Kreider.

Only one of those was a top 6 forward this year. Getting to rebounds isn't always about muscle. If you're 3 steps behind the defensman, he will always collect the rebound and clear the zone before you can tap it in the net.

I love Zibanejad and Panarin, but they don't get to the net because they aren't willing/want to, and its not their game. We need to mix in some high end players, or atleast players who are able to complement them, in our top 6 because if our top 6 can't get to the middle of ice to get rebounds, cause traffic and tip pucks, man are we screwed. Can't always score on the pefect play when you run into a well coached team like Tampa with a goalie like Vasy.

Lafreniere, kakko and Chytil growing and hopefully moving up in lineup should help this problem.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

They’re equally bustworthy.

So fair trade?

 

[kinger8998]

People can hate on Trouba all they want. When he was bad this postseason, he was BAD.

He also had a very, very good season for us. His partner also took a massive leap, which isn't nothing. He did the same for Josh Morrissey in Winnipeg. I'd like to see if he can be Jones caddy next season.

I agree he is overpaid. I agree he's probably moved after his contract moves to a modified NTC. But he was good for the Rangers this season overall. He's also only 28. I don't see why he can't be just as good next season.

I love this thought. To me, I think with a veteran defense signing to be 6/7 D, we could easily run a defense of Lindgren/Miller-Fox, Lindgren/Miller-Schneider, Jones/Trouba, 7th D FA signing (maybe even Braun).

Miller and Jone (when in lineup), get 2PP duties, as Trouba should be nowhere near a PP unit for the duration of his Rangers tenure. ES and PK only please.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Braden Scheneider has shown he will be a good NHL defenseman one day but I don’t know how anyone can pencil him into taking tough mins in the top 4

Kid was f***ing brutal at points this year. Would be nonsense to throw him in the deep end.

 

[Payote75]

You can't pay $8m to a guy who only offers what Trouba does. He made too many mistakes and isn't enough of a shut down defender. You need guys who play .... not only like Adam Fox.... sure, but you can get that for way less than $8m, and we will.

Trouba didn't push literally anyone out of Shesty's way in the Tampa series, so you are making my point for me.

I hate that I'm having to point out all the negatives here to make this obvious argument apparent, because Trouba is still a decent enough player on a second pairing.

But you cannot stomach paying him $8m in a cap world. You just can't. You have to pay Laf, you have to pay Miller, you have to pay a young 2C, you have to pay Kakko. He's not more vital to this franchise than any of those players.

And before you tell me how he's better than Kakko right now (debatable), keep in mind that the entire idea of a multi year contract is to project into the future.

I wouldn't compare Trouba to Kakko and if you think he didn't push anyone out of the way during the Tampa series than shit the rest of the en were getting mani pedis while playing. Tampa was obvious they pretty much all ran out of gas but you can't just pick and choose what skills shime when because yes fox was a monster offensively but how many give aways did he have Miller was a stud.but gave the puck away often but we over look because of the flash or the youth Trouba yes there is an argument to be made that he is overpaid but in retrospect on this team he is the only one with that skill set which is why he is a necessity.illernis a big boy hope he matures into that role. Scheinder had a chance but litteraly needs to grow into his body pack on some weight and maybe let's be patient because he still a boy in a man world but showed a lot. There are other defenseman on the league that are over paid like a Brent Burns and some others that I'd take trouba over rt now.
When you here the scheinders of the world and miller's and what he has done for them his job isn't only what we see on the ice either helping those kids play like they played is part of it. So I understand the overpay argument but you remove trouba and go with Jones or Lundquivst we would get run over more than we did.
One can argue trouba besides shesty was one of the most important players on the team in the first series with his play.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

What will happen with Zac Jones? will he be traded? What is his trade value?

 

[kinger8998]

Braden Scheneider has shown he will be a good NHL defenseman one day but I don’t know how anyone can pencil him into taking tough mins in the top 4

Kid was f***ing brutal at points this year. Would be nonsense to throw him in the deep end.

With Trouba still on the roster for the next 2 years, you don't need to. Give him a little leash. Let him play with the big boys at points and if he struggles, you have Trouba to fall back on. I truly believe our 2nd and 3rd pairs if they consist of Miller, Trouba, Schneider, Jones and a FA signing either depth or true top 4/6 defender cna be interchangeable. Lindgren and Fox are your first pair that gets the heavy minutes, unless you decide its Miller/Fox.

Either way, Schneider will one day be a very good top 4 defenseman, but the role of top 4 physical shutdown defender won't be solely on his shoulders ever until Trouba is gone. In 2 years when that happens, he should be ready for it. Until then, let him learn from Trouba, and grow into his role. While they're both here, enjoy watching it.

 

[Machinehead]

With the lack of scoring down the stretch I really fear that that might push them into having conversations with the Winnipeg about a certain center with a couple years left on a generally reasonable contract. Not sure that that's the right move though

Scheifele is the worst defensive player in the league and is kind of ass at faceoffs. Would be more of the "not actually a center" that we already have.

 

[Payote75]

With Trouba still on the roster for the next 2 years, you don't need to. Give him a little leash. Let him play with the big boys at points and if he struggles, you have Trouba to fall back on. I truly believe our 2nd and 3rd pairs if they consist of Miller, Trouba, Schneider, Jones and a FA signing either depth or true top 4/6 defender cna be interchangeable. Lindgren and Fox are your first pair that gets the heavy minutes, unless you decide its Miller/Fox.

Either way, Schneider will one day be a very good top 4 defenseman, but the role of top 4 physical shutdown defender won't be solely on his shoulders ever until Trouba is gone. In 2 years when that happens, he should be ready for it. Until then, let him learn from Trouba, and grow into his role. While they're both here, enjoy watching it.

Agree and the times for the most part anyway that he looked lost was when he was with nemeth who left him out to dry. I don't think you break up fox Lindgren Miller trouba stay you need to find as I mentioned earlier a Chara type like trouba did for miller or if they think Miller can now fly on his own you pair trouba with Scheider and Miller with lundquivst or Jones of they stay

I still think
Lundquivst
Jones
Kravy
Chytl
Kakko (maybe)
Georgie

That's where I think our trade pool will be from that group to get what we lack.

 

[bleedblue94]

Scheifele is the worst defensive player in the league and is kind of ass at faceoffs. Would be more of the "not actually a center" that we already have.

I agree, but if you look at nyr trading trends they usually keep working within the same group of gms for multiple trades at times. Right now we have trouba and copp out of Winnipeg. I do not want MS here. Just wondering our loud

Our players that will go to the net consist of Lafreniere, Chytil, Kakko, Goodrow, Motte, Blais, and Kreider.

Only one of those was a top 6 forward this year. Getting to rebounds isn't always about muscle. If you're 3 steps behind the defensman, he will always collect the rebound and clear the zone before you can tap it in the net.

I love Zibanejad and Panarin, but they don't get to the net because they aren't willing/want to, and its not their game. We need to mix in some high end players, or atleast players who are able to complement them, in our top 6 because if our top 6 can't get to the middle of ice to get rebounds, cause traffic and tip pucks, man are we screwed. Can't always score on the pefect play when you run into a well coached team like Tampa with a goalie like Vasy.

Lafreniere, kakko and Chytil growing and hopefully moving up in lineup should help this problem.

You're telling me stuff I already know, but discounting how the size of that defense affected things to me is shortsighted. They got to the net against the canes and to a lesser extend Pittsburgh in spurts. No such impact against tampa

 

[Machinehead]

You know who used to play for Winnipeg? Paul Stastny!

 

[mas0764]

Trouba yes there is an argument to be made that he is overpaid but in retrospect on this team he is the only one with that skill set which is why he is a necessity.

It's not "an argument." He is overpaid.

And it's not just that being overpaid is some moral affront that we cannot abide. If we had no need for that money, whatevs. If it was capless, whatevs.

We need his money. We are strapped. We may not be able to afford a legit 2C. We may not be able to afford long term deals for Miller and Laf and may have to bridge them.

Trouba is not THAT unique or THAT valuable.

We are going to bridge Lafreniere and Miller, which will cost us way more in the long run, and operate without a legit 2C, for what? To keep a decent second pair defender around?

The only thing stapling this guy to our roster right now is that NMC, and I'd be slipping brochures for warm weather climates into his mailbox this offseason and seeing if he gets the hint.

Hey Jake, I hear Arizona and Florida are lovely in October-March.

So I understand the overpay argument but you remove trouba and go with Jones or Lundquivst we would get run over more than we did.

Oh well. We will have to shift to a more possession style of hockey. If you don't remove Trouba you may lose Miller or Kakko or something, if not this very offseason then in 2-3 years down the line when you are so strapped from paying Lafreniere that you can't afford another young building block. It's unacceptable.

Trouba doesn't have to go right this second but he has a massive target on his back. He's not a necessity, he's a luxury.

Braden Scheneider has shown he will be a good NHL defenseman one day but I don’t know how anyone can pencil him into taking tough mins in the top 4

Kid was f***ing brutal at points this year. Would be nonsense to throw him in the deep end.

Miller went from not great to pretty damn great in one year.

 

[MrAlmost]

I love this thought. To me, I think with a veteran defense signing to be 6/7 D, we could easily run a defense of Lindgren/Miller-Fox, Lindgren/Miller-Schneider, Jones/Trouba, 7th D FA signing (maybe even Braun).

Miller and Jone (when in lineup), get 2PP duties, as Trouba should be nowhere near a PP unit for the duration of his Rangers tenure. ES and PK only please.

Was just thinking in my head we should do that d lineup. Sign a vet 7th, keep Tinordi as an 8th, rock n roll.

Only a month until free agency. Have to assume the team will move quick on some decisions. Sign Blais, hopefully 2 years at 1.5, Kakko, 2 years at 2.5(Chytil's contract), and Motte. For Motte, work and sell New York as hard as possible to get 4 years at 1.75. Him and Goodrow are 2/3rds of a fantastic 4th line that can move up if injuries hit. And he looked like he enjoyed and fit well on the team. I mean everybody on this team looked like they were pretty close. Drury needs to use that to the teams advantage.

I like Copp, but unless he is going to play center full time, you can't sign him. Drury has to find out if Gallant will put him there. If he won't, it's no good. If he will play center and his not playing center this year was just cause Strome and Panarin were comfortable and we were on a run, which is understandable, try to leverage the tight group and how close you got. Maybe 5-6x4.75 gets it done. Maybe 5-6x5 at most. Go no higher.

Vatrano, Braun, Strome, Rooney and McKegg all walk.

Trade Georgiev, Hajek, and Goat. Will you get much? No, but that's not the point. Turn Georgiev and Goat into a pick. Trade Hajek for a good AHL depth player perhaps. The Rangers offseason will be busy on that front too cause we have very few returning AHL players.

Trade Nemeth. He is likely a part of a package with Lundqvist for cap reasons. I am not sure, but as of right now it still seems unlikely we trade Kakko.

I, actually, would like Blackwell back. Would be great with Motte and Goodrow. Look into Paquette. He won a Cup and makes great depth. These guys can be had for 1 mill or less. No brainer in my opinion.

Stastny, Sanford, Janmark, Cousins, Gudbranson and Kulak are all players we should look into. Of course, if their contract demands are not too high.

 

[Payote75]

It's not "an argument." He is overpaid.

And it's not just that being overpaid is some moral affront that we cannot abide. If we had no need for that money, whatevs. If it was capless, whatevs.

We need his money. We are strapped. We may not be able to afford a legit 2C. We may not be able to afford long term deals for Miller and Laf and may have to bridge them.

Trouba is not THAT unique or THAT valuable.

We are going to bridge Lafreniere and Miller, which will cost us way more in the long run, and operate without a legit 2C, for what? To keep a decent second pair defender around?

The only thing stapling this guy to our roster right now is that NMC, and I'd be slipping brochures for warm weather climates into his mailbox this offseason and seeing if he gets the hint.

Hey Jake, I hear Arizona and Florida are lovely in October-March.



Oh well. We will have to shift to a more possession style of hockey. If you don't remove Trouba you may lose Miller or Kakko or something, if not this very offseason then in 2-3 years down the line when you are so strapped from paying Lafreniere that you can't afford another young building block. It's unacceptable.

Trouba doesn't have to go right this second but he has a massive target on his back. He's not a necessity, he's a luxury.



Miller went from not great to pretty damn great in one year.

Trouba is a necessity he most certainly is. I want a cup of at least deep playoff runs. I love this team and don't want to attack anyone but who was more vital on the playoffs Trouba or Bread? So we can go contracts for contracts the front office has to figure that out. Tampa pays stamkos hedman kucherov cirelli point pilat etc.

Of the front office is savvy enough they will figure it out. You take trouba off the team.next year fill his spot with one of our kids and this team will struggle in the playoffs. If you could flip ore two puck nerds for a tough dman then great but trouba will be here at least 2 more years.

 

[Payote75]

Bring me Forsberg!!! Lol make the cap space and no not by trying to dump Trouba!!!

 

[RangersFan1994]

Kakko is better than Dach in every aspect of the game. No thanks.

And I’m open to potential Kakko trades FWIW.

A huge step down 1 more point in 5 less games brings a physical element and a center which is a need. Oh and selected right after Kakko. Yea such a step down. This would be a Jones for Johansen type of trade that works for both teams

2019 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

A sortable list of players drafted in the 2019 NHL Entry draft, including their career scoring after being drafted

www.hockeydb.com

Bring me Forsberg!!! Lol make the cap space and no not by trying to dump Trouba!!!

Need to dump Nemeth somehow. He is dead space. I would love Forsberg here.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Scheifele is the worst defensive player in the league and is kind of ass at faceoffs. Would be more of the "not actually a center" that we already have.

Rather try and get Dubois. Who has some nasty in his game. he would be the same age Rangers traded for Mika. Dubois would be a better get from the Jets

 

[JimmyG89]

You know who used to play for Winnipeg? Paul Stastny!

Would not be a bad 3C and 2PP player. My only concern is that eventually you don't have it and would hate for it to happen in season.

36 year old might be tough to bank on, but if he is our Jason Spezza, it could work.

 

[The New Russian Five]

People can hate on Trouba all they want. When he was bad this postseason, he was BAD.

He also had a very, very good season for us. His partner also took a massive leap, which isn't nothing. He did the same for Josh Morrissey in Winnipeg. I'd like to see if he can be Jones caddy next season.

I agree he is overpaid. I agree he's probably moved after his contract moves to a modified NTC. But he was good for the Rangers this season overall. He's also only 28. I don't see why he can't be just as good next season.

The biggest issue with Trouba is his speed, especially when he is pivoting. Re-watch Stamkos GWG from the last game. Stamkos completely burned him in a foot race. Wasn't even close. And it is not like this was the first time it has happened with him.