Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXVII

[Richard Banger]

step down in which sense? He is a Center, he is 6'4" and he is 1 year younger


Vatrano is a UFA and just had good season and playoffs, he will have some teams overpay him. Blais is RFA.

He’s a step down in the game of hockey lmao

 

[PalmCoastRanger]

Three things I notice about the Lightning

1) They haven't had a bad player on the ice since like 2013-14

2) They play good players a lot

3) When spots open up due to the cap, they promote their own guys and use acquisitions to fill the spots below

We use acquisitions to fill the spots above so our prospects can stay on the third line and never get any better. We wouldn't want them making a mistake, you know, as opposed to the Panarin line's safe and solid 34% xGF play.

All three of things are easy.

4) They have a Cooper.

That part is a little harder to pull off. We all laughed how Paul returned to their locker room in the middle of an interview like a well heeled puppy dog, but that shows how much control and buy in Cooper can extract from everyone on their roster.

Their system is plug and play because Cooper demand nothing less than complete adherence to it.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Kakko is younger than Kirby Dach and averaged more ppg this year than him.

you are right, my mistake, Dach also doesn't have the Celiac Disease. Still it would likely be a good change of scenery fresh start for both. And the trade value is very close to being equal.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

A trade for a center with a defenseman going the other way needs to happen to hedge against Chytil's durability.

Lundkvist is obviously the guy to go but I honestly can’t think of a trade that would make sense lol

 

[McRanger92]

The 2C decision will shape the off-season. If they are willing to bring back Copp, they will be able to run it back with largely the same team, which is not a bad option at all imo.

On the other hand, they may decide to upgrade at that position and look for a 1B with Zibanejad. Drury has wiggle room to be a bit creative if he so chooses.

Should be interesting because I think there are merits to both strategies

 

[bleedblue94]

The 2C decision will shape the off-season. If they are willing to bring back Copp, they will be able to run it back with largely the same team, which is not a bad option at all imo.

On the other hand, they may decide to upgrade at that position and look for a 1B with Zibanejad. Drury has wiggle room to be a bit creative if he so chooses.

Should be interesting because I think there are merits to both strategies

With the lack of scoring down the stretch I really fear that that might push them into having conversations with the Winnipeg about a certain center with a couple years left on a generally reasonable contract. Not sure that that's the right move though

 

[mas0764]

you are right, my mistake, Dach also doesn't have the Celiac Disease. Still it would likely be a good change of scenery fresh start for both. And the trade value is very close to being equal.

I'm not sure the Celiac disease really is affecting Kakko or his trade value very much. And I don't agree their value is close to equal.

 

[Payote75]

Trouba? How could anyone want to trade Trouba. Forgetting for a second what.he has done for Miller and Schneider his play was one of the main reasons we got as far as we did..His hits on each of the first two series were altering hits on our favor he hit everything in sight and is basically the only defenseman we have like that Lindgren being a favorite of mine still not trouba physically but a warrior. Trouba has earned his spot on this team it's not even 24 hours and trouba is already a target lol .....that pretty unbelievable. As pansy as hockey has gotten our defense would just get even more abused and run over without trouba. Instead of getting rid of trouba we should be looking at a way to add another Trouba. Stick checking and positioning only go so far. The penguins taught us that and Tampa did as well only Carolina had no presence but that was more due to their roster and game plan.

 

[McRanger92]

I like the elements that Blais Kravstov Motte & potentially Cuylle will bring to the bottom 6 next year. All guys who can thrive playing playoff hockey.

Laf needs to be in the top 6 next year. They could keep Kakko or use him & a young defenseman to trade for a 2C or just bring back Copp.

The defense is not a worry. We have 7-8 defenseman all 28 or younger in the organization who could conceivably have a role next year. I expect Nemeth will retire/traded/removed in some way.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

With the lack of scoring down the stretch I really fear that that might push them into having conversations with the Winnipeg about a certain center with a couple years left on a generally reasonable contract. Not sure that that's the right move though

Neither of the options there are good.

 

[mas0764]

With the lack of scoring down the stretch I really fear that that might push them into having conversations with the Winnipeg about a certain center with a couple years left on a generally reasonable contract. Not sure that that's the right move though

No, Schiefele is not the right fit for us. Expensive, too old to fit with the kid core, has a bad rap for being soft, no defense, and maybe a bad personality.

I like the elements that Blais Kravstov Motte & potentially Cuylle will bring to the bottom 6 next year. All guys who can thrive playing playoff hockey.

Laf needs to be in the top 6 next year. They could keep Kakko or use him & a young defenseman to trade for a 2C or just bring back Copp.

The defense is not a worry. We have 7-8 defenseman all 28 or younger in the organization who could conceivably have a role next year. I expect Nemeth will retire/traded/removed in some way.

I wish we could get Copp for a reasonable price and term because if we could, he makes a lot of sense. He can play 2C for now but be cheap enough to be a 3C later.

It only makes sense to pay out the nose for a 1B if they are under 25.

 

[McRanger92]

With the lack of scoring down the stretch I really fear that that might push them into having conversations with the Winnipeg about a certain center with a couple years left on a generally reasonable contract. Not sure that that's the right move though

Not a fan of Scheifele but Dubois is very interesting if he looks to get out of of Western Canada. He’s played with Panarin before and fits the young core.

 

[Go Rangers]

Is breakup day tomorrow?

For us or them?

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I'm not sure the Celiac disease really is affecting Kakko or his trade value very much. And I don't agree their value is close to equal.

You are entitled to your opinion, but doesn't mean you are right.

 

[mas0764]

Trouba? How could anyone want to trade Trouba. Forgetting for a second what.he has done for Miller and Schneider his play was one of the main reasons we got as far as we did..His hits on each of the first two series were altering hits on our favor he hit everything in sight and is basically the only defenseman we have like that Lindgren being a favorite of mine still not trouba physically but a warrior. Trouba has earned his spot on this team it's not even 24 hours and trouba is already a target lol .....that pretty unbelievable. As pansy as hockey has gotten our defense would just get even more abused and run over without trouba. Instead of getting rid of trouba we should be looking at a way to add another Trouba. Stick checking and positioning only go so far. The penguins taught us that and Tampa did as well only Carolina had no presence but that was more due to their roster and game plan.

Trouba is inconsistent on defense. His hits are nice and it may have won us the Pitt series by KO'ing Crosby, but I'm not building my roster with the assumption that my defenseman is going to be injuring the opposition.

He's still a valuable piece and in a capless world he could stay and continue to be a solid second pair defender but that's not the world we live in.

He's too expensive to justify his spot on the roster for much longer given the playoffs he just turned in, his body of work here in general, and the pipeline of defenders we have waiting to take his spot sooner rather than later.

And by that I mean all of Jones, Robertson and Nils will be ready for NHL minutes within a year, a year and a half max (if not already), and probably quality second pair duty is within their reach within 2-3 years. It's coming fast. The amount of time you'd miss having Trouba around is minimal; the benefit you'd get from spending his salary on locking down core components to favorable long term deals is priceless.

Not a fan of Scheifele but Dubois is very interesting if he looks to get out of of Western Canada. He’s played with Panarin before and fits the young core.

I like the idea of Dubois but I think Winnipeg would rather move Schiefele.

 

[kinger8998]

Trouba? How could anyone want to trade Trouba. Forgetting for a second what.he has done for Miller and Schneider his play was one of the main reasons we got as far as we did..His hits on each of the first two series were altering hits on our favor he hit everything in sight and is basically the only defenseman we have like that Lindgren being a favorite of mine still not trouba physically but a warrior. Trouba has earned his spot on this team it's not even 24 hours and trouba is already a target lol .....that pretty unbelievable. As pansy as hockey has gotten our defense would just get even more abused and run over without trouba. Instead of getting rid of trouba we should be looking at a way to add another Trouba. Stick checking and positioning only go so far. The penguins taught us that and Tampa did as well only Carolina had no presence but that was more due to their roster and game plan.

I think Schneider can become our next Trouba. I think Trouba has been great. His best play as a Ranger so far was during this season and in the first 2 rounds of the Playoffs. But 8 million is not a cap hit we can afford for him for too much longer, ESPECIALLY when I think the Rangers also believe Schenider can learn from him, and eventually take his spot at a much cheaper price.

I don't hate Trouba, just have the feeling that he won't be around when this team (hopefully) does win a Cup. Unless its this upcoming 2 seasons, which he'll be here for. Think he's gone in summer 24 when he submits his 15 team no trade list after his NMC expires

 

[bleedblue94]

Not a fan of Scheifele but Dubois is very interesting if he looks to get out of of Western Canada. He’s played with Panarin before and fits the young core.

Pld also screams baby if he's going to be leaving peg after the ordeal in Columbus. Kid seems like one of those that is always blaming the situation. I understand he got 60pts this year but Winnipeg would want to recoup Laine/roslivic value which is a little asinine for us to give up. Pld is coming off a two year 5aav deal and will be a very difficult negotiation on his next contract bc if you give term you're buying ufa years and he isn't selling those at a discount despite his uneven performance the past few years. If you don't give term than you're giving assets for a couple years of control before he goes ufa.

Also how would you fit such a contract here right now?

We all keep coming back to money and we don't have good ways to free any up...

 

[Payote75]

Trouba is inconsistent on defense. His hits are nice and it may have won us the Pitt series by KO'ing Crosby, but I'm not building my roster with the assumption that my defenseman is going to be injuring the opposition.

He's still a valuable piece and in a capless world he could stay and continue to be a solid second pair defender but that's not the world we live in.

He's too expensive to justify his spot on the roster for much longer given the playoffs he just turned in, his body of work here in general, and the pipeline of defenders we have waiting to take his spot sooner rather than later.

And by that I mean all of Jones, Robertson and Nils will be ready for NHL minutes within a year, a year and a half max (if not already), and probably quality second pair duty is within their reach within 2-3 years. It's coming fast. The amount of time you'd miss having Trouba around is minimal; the benefit you'd get from spending his salary on locking down core components to favorable long term deals is priceless.



I like the idea of Dubois but I think Winnipeg would rather move Schiefele.

Totally disagree those guys will be trade bait. Adam fox is a stud a favorite a wonderful player and if you had 6 Adam foxes you still wouldn't win a cup. You can't win in the playoffs without troubas. And you can't discount what he has meant to millers and Schneiders of the world its invaluable and others. It's like this deep run didn't show us how we need dudes to push people out of shestys line of sight? How just speed and stick checking won't work in the playoffs or how every team kept running shesty over. Rangers need net presence on both side of the ice.

 

[kinger8998]

Totally disagree those guys will be trade bait. Adam fox is a stud a favorite a wonderful player and if you had 6 Adam foxes you still wouldn't win a cup. You can't win in the playoffs without troubas. And you can't discount what he has meant to millers and Schneiders and others. It's like this deep run didn't show us how we need dudes to push people out of shestys line of sight? How just speed it stick checking won't work in the playoffs or how every team kept running shesty over. Rangers need net presence on both side of the ice.

Trouba also got burned in the race with Steven Stamkos to give up the GWG in Game 6. He made plenty of great hits and plays, but he was way too far up ice as a defenseman and allowed himself to get in a footrace (when as a slower defenseman he has to be positionally sound to avoid those footraces he can lose). Horrible read at that point in the game. Don't get me wrong, I agree you need physicality and guys to clear creases, but I guarantee you no team will ever win the Cup in the cap era paying a 2nd pair defensman 8 million solely for physicality. In the next 2 years, Miller and Schneider will learn plenty, Schneids will progress and ultimately take Troubs role. Its nothing against the guy or the player, its the cap hit for the role he plays.

As one poster said, in a capless world I'd have Trouba on my team any day. For 8 million, I'd keep him as a 2nd pair defender if he was nearly perfect aside from his physicality, but unfortunately, as his speed and decisions show sometimes, hes not that.

 

[bleedblue94]

Totally disagree those guys will be trade bait. Adam fox is a stud a favorite a wonderful player and if you had 6 Adam foxes you still wouldn't win a cup. You can't win in the playoffs without troubas. And you can't discount what he has meant to millers and Schneiders of the world its invaluable and others. It's like this deep run didn't show us how we need dudes to push people out of shestys line of sight? How just speed and stick checking won't work in the playoffs or how every team kept running shesty over. Rangers need net presence on both side of the ice.

Everyone talks about how we couldn't get to the Tampa net, there defense this series was 6 6, 6 2, 6 3, 6 4, 6 1, 6 2, 6 3

We have people on this board that wanted our defense to include all three of fox, Nils, and Jones ha

teams would have more of a field day in front of Igor than they do already.

 

[Payote75]

I think Schneider can become our next Trouba. I think Trouba has been great. His best play as a Ranger so far was during this season and in the first 2 rounds of the Playoffs. But 8 million is not a cap hit we can afford for him for too much longer, ESPECIALLY when I think the Rangers also believe Schenider can learn from him, and eventually take his spot at a much cheaper price.

I don't hate Trouba, just have the feeling that he won't be around when this team (hopefully) does win a Cup. Unless its this upcoming 2 seasons, which he'll be here for. Think he's gone in summer 24 when he submits his 15 team no trade list after his NMC expires

I can almost see that on that explanation it's a intelligent view. I do see him being solid for 3 more years the way he plays but I can see that point it's the other stuff I can't handle lol and Schneider is great but he still on a boy's body even in 3 years he better pack on weight lol

Everyone talks about how we couldn't get to the Tampa net, there defense this series was 6 6, 6 2, 6 3, 6 4, 6 1, 6 2, 6 3

We have people on this board that wanted our defense to include all three of fox, Nils, and Jones ha

teams would have more of a field day in front of Igor than they do already.

Totally 100% agree!!!!

 

[jerseyjinx94]

I think Trouba proved that he’s too important right now to move him; although I do agree he’s about $2-3M overpaid and that makes him a candidate to move in the near future when Schneider develops more.

I wish you could restructure contracts like in football.

 

[kinger8998]

Everyone talks about how we couldn't get to the Tampa net, there defense this series was 6 6, 6 2, 6 3, 6 4, 6 1, 6 2, 6 3

We have people on this board that wanted our defense to include all three of fox, Nils, and Jones ha

teams would have more of a field day in front of Igor than they do already.

There is a difference between crediting their defense and knocking our forwards.

Yes, size is valuable and the Tampa D have that. But as much as that plays a role, our forward group really likes perimiter play and as a 5 man unit we have a reluctance to even TRY to go to the net. Tampa D don't need to box out if we won't try to get in the box. Thats why the kid line was successful. Nieve, young, fearless, would play perimiter through cycles, go low to high, but also get into the soft area in slot or work netfront. Our top guys seem to not want to do that, which stops our D from taking shots, like Sergachev when he scored once and the other one went off Palats shinpad. Screens and tips.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Trouba’s not going anywhere until at least 2024 so its not worth discussing. Cap hit is brutal though

 

[kinger8998]

Trouba’s not going anywhere until at least 2024 so its not worth discussing. Cap hit is brutal though

I mean I would make a sizeable bet if he's not gone in the summer of '24 hes gone at some point that season before the next one. He won't be on this roster IMO come maybe 24-25 and definitely not 25-26.

But yeah, thats so far down the line is not worth talking about even if it almost is a foregone conclusion. I just hope Drury is smart with the rest of his Cap becasue other than the McDonagh/Miller trade, the Trouba contract of 8M was one of Gortons rare missteps in building this core.