Salary Cap: Roster-building thread Part XXXVII : Why can't we always play like that?

[deakka]

We are in a really bad position.
We are too top Heavy. If we really wanna retool and change our team we need to move Letang or Malkin tbh.

We cant hope that getting rid of Scuderi/Kunitz will solve anything. We have to replace them with someone else as well.

1. the FA crop is so weak that there is litte to no chance we get any gems form there (we arent exatly the only ones needing to sign players either)

2. We dont have anough Young talent to replace for example Kunitz.

The way to go if we really wanna make a difference is biting the bullet and trade a big name player so we get more than 1 asset back. for example: Letang for a lesser defenseman, good - NHL ready prospect and a pick.

 

[Shady Machine]

Yeah use your brain people. Forsberg was not within the realm of possibility in a Neal trade.

 

[Shady Machine]

We are in a really bad position.
We are too top Heavy. If we really wanna retool and change our team we need to move Letang or Malkin tbh.

We cant hope that getting rid of Scuderi/Kunitz will solve anything. We have to replace them with someone else as well.

1. the FA crop is so weak that there is litte to no chance we get any gems form there (we arent exatly the only ones needing to sign players either)

2. We dont have anough Young talent to replace for example Kunitz.

The way to go if we really wanna make a difference is biting the bullet and trade a big name player so we get more than 1 asset back. for example: Letang for a lesser defenseman, good - NHL ready prospect and a pick.

We are not too top heavy. We have drafted and developed poorly (traded away too many picks) and have to overpay role players. That's the problem.

 

[cassius]

It's not like this org would have been interested in Forsberg anyway. They shun young players with upside and are content to trade away all their draft picks.

Young forward with upside? Pass. We need more past their prime veterans

 

[Captain Hook]

Yeah use your brain people. Forsberg was not within the realm of possibility in a Neal trade.

Agreed. Nashville was never trading Forsberg. They said at the time of the trade with Washington that they had Forsberg ranked as a top 5 pick in the 2012 draft.

The + to Hornqvist could have been better. I don't think they could have gotten Craig Smith who was coming off a 24 goal season but you could maybe argue the Pens should have held out for Colin Wilson or a pick/prospect. Although to be fair to the Pens, Spaling was coming off a season where he outpaced Wilson scoring wise.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

It's not like this org would have been interested in Forsberg anyway. They shun young players with upside and are content to trade away all their draft picks.

Young forward with upside? Pass. We need more past their prime veterans

What you're saying isn't wrong, but why do people here compare every young player in the league to Beau Bennett? I have some misgivings about what they're doing with Bennett. Less than most, but some. At the same time he's not Filip Forsberg.

 

[cassius]

What you're saying isn't wrong, but why do people here compare every young player in the league to Beau Bennett? I have some misgivings about what they're doing with Bennett. Less than most, but some. At the same time he's not Filip Forsberg.

I never made any reference to BB - I'm just saying this org has almost 0 track record of putting young players in major roles.

I'm sure it never occurred to them to even consider the possibility of trading for a young guy with upside like Forsberg. This team is all about giving up picks and young players for aging veterans.. Or just throwing absurd contracts at tenured veterans

 

[joeyjake5]

For next year, even with everybody healthy, and you know that will be an impossibility, the pens will struggle to make the playoffs. In the East, as things stand right now, there are only four teams (Sabres, NJD, Tor, and Canes) that the pens are better than right now. The pens will be in a dogfight in the Metro. You have the Rags, Craps, Flies, BJs, and NYis who they can't beat. Unless they blow up the core, plan for 2016 with the following as priorities and not in any order.

Under any circumstances, do not trade next years(2016) #1 pick, it could be a lottery pick.

Get rid of Scuds, LJ, and Adams any way you can.

Do not resign Erhoff or Martin. Both are not going to get the big contracts they think they are entitled to.

Go with Youth. Play Sundquist, KK, Wilson, Harry, Dumo, Chorney. You have nothing to lose.

And don't overpay for UFAs.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I never made any reference to BB - I'm just saying this org has almost 0 track record of putting young players in major roles.

I'm sure it never occurred to them to even consider the possibility of trading for a young guy with upside like Forsberg. This team is all about giving up picks and young players for aging veterans.. Or just throwing absurd contracts at tenured veterans

Eh, that's just pure speculation. Also the Preds weren't trading for a gunner and dealing their version of a franchise center just because Mike Ribeiro decided to come there for a spell.

In terms of young guys playing major roles, it's a problem. Their drafting and development of forwards is the biggest problem though I think. Random thought: It's kind of weird how we are not only lacking forwards in general, but big North American forwards. You would think that'd be right up Shero's alley.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Remember when Sutter was deemed essential to the team's success because he was deemed a playoff performer? Good times, those.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

In terms of laughable rumors (almost at that Bill Guerin as new GM level) comes Andy Strickland's recent tweet that Tony Granato is a strong candidate for the Sharks' head-coaching job.

Ya that'll help them rid their loser mentality.

 

[Shady Machine]

In terms of laughable rumors (almost at that Bill Guerin as new GM level) comes Andy Strickland's recent tweet that Tony Granato is a strong candidate for the Sharks' head-coaching job.

Ya that'll help them rid their loser mentality.

Yikes.

 

[joeyjake5]

Yikes.

I will say this about Tony G., he looks like he is Babcock's right hand man.

 

[The Old Master]

In terms of laughable rumors (almost at that Bill Guerin as new GM level) comes Andy Strickland's recent tweet that Tony Granato is a strong candidate for the Sharks' head-coaching job.

Ya that'll help them rid their loser mentality.

that's the only chance we have to a fast rebuild.....we need good trading partners.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

that's the only chance we have to a fast rebuild.....we need good trading partners.

indeed T O M.

 

[SEALBound]

I can see why some people would want to trade Letang or Määttä, but there is no team that is going to offer us anything substantial when they are both coming off of serious injuries. Even if they both come back next year and everything is fine, I don't think we can even consider moving Määttä. Letang could make sense if the return is right because of his salary, but we cannot afford to lose a cost-controlled defenseman like Määttä for anything short of a massive overpayment.

We can improve the top 6 by getting rid of dead weight and bringing in an impact FA signing. There aren't many impact guys available, but we need to at least try to bring a forward in through FA. A guy like Vrbata last year would have been a perfect signing. We need to find a guy like that this year that can produce while riding shotgun with Sid and Geno like Vrbata was doing with the Sedins.

Exactly. I think we are better off keeping Letang and most definitely Maatta. We aren't going to be able to replace what Letang brings. We need a #1 dman.

A great signing would have been Kulemin and Grabovski as the package deal and not signing Ehrhoff. Kulemin would have solidified a spot next to Malkin and Grabo could have had flexibility throughout the line up.

Having Kulemin means they likely wouldn't have signed Downie. Comeau still probably. Gotta wonder if they still make the Perron trade...but assume they did:

Perron-Sid-Horny
Kulemin-Malkin-Grabo
Spaling-Sutter-Bennett
Comeau-Lapierre-Kunitz (or wherever)

Letang-Maatta
Martin-Despres
Scuds-XXXXX

The defense would not have changed in the playoffs. We would have two more offensive weapons that were free and saved what we spent on Winnik.

So many could would shoulds here.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Exactly. I think we are better off keeping Letang and most definitely Maatta. We aren't going to be able to replace what Letang brings. We need a #1 dman.

A great signing would have been Kulemin and Grabovski as the package deal and not signing Ehrhoff. Kulemin would have solidified a spot next to Malkin and Grabo could have had flexibility throughout the line up.

Having Kulemin means they likely wouldn't have signed Downie. Comeau still probably. Gotta wonder if they still make the Perron trade...but assume they did:

Perron-Sid-Horny
Kulemin-Malkin-Grabo
Spaling-Sutter-Bennett
Comeau-Lapierre-Kunitz (or wherever)

Letang-Maatta
Martin-Despres
Scuds-XXXXX

The defense would not have changed in the playoffs. We would have two more offensive weapons that were free and saved what we spent on Winnik.

So many could would shoulds here.

I don't even think they could fit both of those guys but I could be wrong. I don't even know if Grabo has ever played wing either. None of this matters though because they were never getting them.

 

[The Greatest 101]

Wow so negative about Letang's trading value.IMO We can at least get Nyquist and a late first for him.

 

[DegenX]

I don't even think they could fit both of those guys but I could be wrong. I don't even know if Grabo has ever played wing either. None of this matters though because they were never getting them.

Grabo plays wing. And we could have fit them if we hadn't signed Ehrhoff and moved Scuderi. Several of us ran the numbers when CapGeek was still up, and they worked. Probably would have had to move salary to fit Perron, though.

 

[cassius]

Wow so negative about Letang's trading value.IMO We can at least get Nyquist and a late first for him.

If you have that deal on the table, you take it.

Letang is the equivalent of a car that has been wrecked, salvaged, and rebuilt.. If you can get full asking price or even 80 cents on the dollar, you take that.

It reminds me of when I had a practically brand new sports car that got hit by a drunk driver. Took months to fix it and the car never drove the same after the accident.

So what did I do? I traded that thing in at the first dealership I went to and got full value.. Never looked back. I acted decisively and recognized that the value of the (now repaired) car was probably at an all time high, so I hit the sell button. Pens would be wise to take a similar approach with Letang.

They won't though because they get married to players ie Scuderi , MAF

 

[Krudus]

Wow so negative about Letang's trading value.IMO We can at least get Nyquist and a late first for him.

Maybe they could trade up for a better defenseman if they add something going the other way? How about Letang, a pick and a complimentary forward for OEL for example?

 

[Jules Winnfield]

At the time though we needed a Spaling in a bad way. 5 guys in the bottom 6 were not coming back and Sutter needed to be resigned at an amount that was unknown at the time. We needed a potential 3C or most definitely a bottom 6 wing. Spaling was that man. Although not flashy, he was reliable. Obviously the Penguins scouts thought that he was someone we could use.

Forsberg was a prospect and nothing but. Looking at it from the org's POV, I understand why they would want Spaling instead of Forsberg. Or who knows, Forsberg may have been 100% off the table. Looking at it now, absolutely if you can pry Forsberg away you do it. No brainer there. At the time of the trade...not so clear.

How is it hindsight when I said it at the time of the trade?

We had no top 6 forward depth in the organization ready to challenge for an NHL spot. The cupboard was bare. At the time in FA, there were several bottom six players we could've signed for much cheaper than what Spaling provided.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Yeah use your brain people. Forsberg was not within the realm of possibility in a Neal trade.

Easy to say that now. We don't know what else it would've taken on our side to add to the deal to get him if they were so high on him.

All I'm saying is we got Hornqvist and a guy who turned out to be a cap dump for his production for a 40 goal scorer.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Don't start something this baseless and simply untrue. There is absolutely ZERO possibility we could've thrown something in to get Forsberg with Hornqvist. That is insane and just a shot in the dark-kind of way to try and bash the org even more. Forsberg was "just a prospect"? Oh really? You're telling me Nashville had no idea what they had there? Come on. That's a joke right? Plus, they were going to give Hornqvist and Forsberg for a winger dependant on a play-making center? You aren't giving Poile, who is a great GM, any credit whatsoever.

Sorry but I have to lash out when people just start spewing BS, and that's all this is.

It was an opinion I had at the time of the trade not after Forsberg blew it up this year.

For ****s sake some people are too ****ing touchy here.

 

[JQR]

If you have that deal on the table, you take it.

Letang is the equivalent of a car that has been wrecked, salvaged, and rebuilt.. If you can get full asking price or even 80 cents on the dollar, you take that.

It reminds me of when I had a practically brand new sports car that got hit by a drunk driver. Took months to fix it and the car never drove the same after the accident.

So what did I do? I traded that thing in at the first dealership I went to and got full value.. Never looked back. I acted decisively and recognized that the value of the (now repaired) car was probably at an all time high, so I hit the sell button. Pens would be wise to take a similar approach with Letang.

They won't though because they get married to players ie Scuderi , MAF

Yup, this is exactly how I look at it. At the end of the day, the players are assets and the GM needs to manage those assets. There's nothing insensitive or inhuman about trading players, every single one of them has a responsibility to know what they're getting into when they sign a contract. It's just business.