Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXII

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

He gets kind of shoe horned into a spot there regardless of chemistry.

When we added Martin St Louis the need was clear- we had a lot of good forwards but no real game breakers. He was supposed to be a PPG guy and the biggest true scoring threat amongst a bunch of guys producing at 1B/2A level.

This time around we’ve got much better high end skill, so I’m just a little bit hesitant to declare yet another finesse top line player the correct investment of major pieces.

I think if you can get a top of the lineup player for a price you're comfortable with, you do it even if you don't see a top line player a need.

Having JT Miller centering your 3rd line makes you that much better. Now you have 3 legit scoring lines instead of 2. And if you play him in the top 6 now one of those guys are going to be pushed down, so it's the same result.

Not directed at you or your point, but I've seen some people say he's not a worthwhile target because you shouldn't trade for a first line player just to use him on the 3rd line but that's crazy to me. If you have a first line player on your 3rd line, your 3rd line is going to kick ass. People sometimes get too caught up in the number of the line, spot in lineup and stuff like that. You can bet your ass if the Rangers acquire JT Miller (or a comparable player) that whatever number line he plays on at 5v5, he is routinely going to be in the top 6 time on ice for our forwards every game.

I also think people need to get comfortable with Drury trading serious value away at some point here. Part of the entire point of a rebuild, along with drafting and developing players to play on the Rangers, is to acquire capital to use as ammunition in trades. Not all of these prospects are going to be on the Rangers just as a numbers game and it becomes a balancing act of trading guys who don't have a spot before they lose value and holding on to others who are a bit younger who can fill in as the lineup spots open in the future. So we amassed a ton of capital so it won't sting as much if we trade a couple 2nd rounders away or if we trade our 3rd or 4th ranked prospect or something. We're deep enough organizationally that we won't be completely baring the cupboard like in years past.

Not saying a similar move is out there to be made or even should be made, but people were losing their shit laughing when Tampa traded a first rounder for Goodrow. Two cups laters, who even cares who San Jose selected with that pick?


Man, JT Miller at 50% retained for this season and next really would be a tremendous fit on this team. I would trade serious capital to get that done. Not Eichel deal level stuff, but a 1st and a top prospect and a lower level prospect- absolutely. Would people really be upset if we traded 1st+Lundkvist OR Kravtsov + Hunter Skinner or someone like that or Miller?

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I agree they check off way more of that list than "a lot of other teams."

How is that relevant, though?

Yeah, the Rangers are clearly better than approximately 20 other teams in the league. No debate.

They are also clearly worse than 5-6 other teams too.



If I was a betting man I'd put my money on Tampa again.

Being clearly worse than 5-6 teams is not really a reason to not try to improve and make a serious run. Knowing we have the top end offensive talent plus Fox and Igor - I really have a hard time thinking we don't at least have a legitimate chance of winning a series vs. any team in this league.

And if they're a top 10 or so team in this league, if they make one or two upgrades that address issues on the team, now won't that make the Rangers more likely to be a toss up with those 5-6 teams instead of clearly worse?

 

[KOVALEV022473]

Again, if the goal is to hit on draft picks, you’re not going to find one better than Panarin, irrespective of timing. If your team sucks and you win the lottery and draft a Panarin, all you have is Panarin. You hit on a player like Arty, you build around him.

 

[CupSeeker]

I think if you can get a top of the lineup player for a price you're comfortable with, you do it even if you don't see a top line player a need.

Having JT Miller centering your 3rd line makes you that much better. Now you have 3 legit scoring lines instead of 2. And if you play him in the top 6 now one of those guys are going to be pushed down, so it's the same result.

Not directed at you or your point, but I've seen some people say he's not a worthwhile target because you shouldn't trade for a first line player just to use him on the 3rd line but that's crazy to me. If you have a first line player on your 3rd line, your 3rd line is going to kick ass. People sometimes get too caught up in the number of the line, spot in lineup and stuff like that. You can bet your ass if the Rangers acquire JT Miller (or a comparable player) that whatever number line he plays on at 5v5, he is routinely going to be in the top 6 time on ice for our forwards every game.

I also think people need to get comfortable with Drury trading serious value away at some point here. Part of the entire point of a rebuild, along with drafting and developing players to play on the Rangers, is to acquire capital to use as ammunition in trades. Not all of these prospects are going to be on the Rangers just as a numbers game and it becomes a balancing act of trading guys who don't have a spot before they lose value and holding on to others who are a bit younger who can fill in as the lineup spots open in the future. So we amassed a ton of capital so it won't sting as much if we trade a couple 2nd rounders away or if we trade our 3rd or 4th ranked prospect or something. We're deep enough organizationally that we won't be completely baring the cupboard like in years past.

Not saying a similar move is out there to be made or even should be made, but people were losing their shit laughing when Tampa traded a first rounder for Goodrow. Two cups laters, who even cares who San Jose selected with that pick?


Man, JT Miller at 50% retained for this season and next really would be a tremendous fit on this team. I would trade serious capital to get that done. Not Eichel deal level stuff, but a 1st and a top prospect and a lower level prospect- absolutely. Would people really be upset if we traded 1st+Lundkvist OR Kravtsov + Hunter Skinner or someone like that or Miller?

Vancouver wants Schneider. Would you include him?

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Vancouver wants Schneider. Would you include him?

Do we know Vancouver covets Schneider? Or is that just their fans talking?

No, Schneider would be off the table for me. If they wanted Schneider it would have to be as part of a Petterson package, IMO.

I'd trade any of the other defense prospects in a Miller trade though.

 

[Boris Zubov]

If Vancouver wants Schneider, I want Pettersson.

I don't think you've seen him play recently. Regressing doesn't begin to describe his game.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

I don't think you've seen him play recently. Regressing doesn't begin to describe his game.

He just needs more carbs in his diet. I think a little Bread would wake him up just fine

 

[Boris Zubov]

He just needs more carbs in his diet. I think a little Bread would wake him up just fine

He definitely needs something. Maybe a change of scenery is it, but I can't imagine this kid thriving in NYC. Not only does he look fragile physically, he always appears on the verge of tears.

 

[bleedblue94]

That wasn't my point at all. My point was that we never had a team that was all there at the same time... Hank was great but he never had a full team in front of him at once.

Very similar in the timing, or lack of... with this 2 distinct core situation.

While our elite and high priced talent are ready (along w Fox and Shesty) the kids aren't and when the kids are (hopefully) will Kreider, Trouba, Zbad and Panarin be as good? Elite?

This is why I was against Panarin in the 1st place... not that I think ANYONE is upset at him on this team... but the timing wasn't right to get him as it pried open the window pre-maturely.

I think the timing was two fold:
A the org wanted a star to market to give to the fans after they accepted the rebuild letter.

B the org did not want to go down the tanking path of noncompetitive play. The interesting part of this is that without panarin the rangers finish in a different location in the standings and they dont win either lottery.

Now you can debate the players in the drafts however you want (zegras vs kakko/lundell vs laf) but the bottom line is no organization or fan in the lottery is happier being assigned a later pick rather than winning and moving up.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

He definitely needs something. Maybe a change of scenery is it, but I can't imagine this kid thriving in NYC. Not only does he look fragile physically, he always appears on the verge of tears.

Sounds like Chytil LOL

 

[Alluckks]

Chytil + Robertson + 2nd for Miller at 50% is miles more realistic than anything Canucks fans are proposing

 

[Shesterkybomb]

So many posters now can't wait to ship Chytil out for a minimum return (mostly rentals). Reminds me of how not long ago Buch was being shipped out at every opportunity.

And then he was eventually shipped out for a rental and a 2nd rounder.

 

[zukeisgone]

Being clearly worse than 5-6 teams is not really a reason to not try to improve and make a serious run. Knowing we have the top end offensive talent plus Fox and Igor - I really have a hard time thinking we don't at least have a legitimate chance of winning a series vs. any team in this league.

And if they're a top 10 or so team in this league, if they make one or two upgrades that address issues on the team, now won't that make the Rangers more likely to be a toss up with those 5-6 teams instead of clearly worse?

in theory yes….who and how much and the results is why Drury makes the big bucks

 

[DanielBrassard]

Chytil + Robertson + 2nd for Miller at 50% is miles more realistic than anything Canucks fans are proposing

That's a severe underpayment

 

[Fitzy]

That's a severe underpayment

Frankly Howden, Hajek, 1st for McDonagh with retention was a severe underpayment too

 

[mas0764]

Being clearly worse than 5-6 teams is not really a reason to not try to improve and make a serious run. Knowing we have the top end offensive talent plus Fox and Igor - I really have a hard time thinking we don't at least have a legitimate chance of winning a series vs. any team in this league.

I dunno, I kinda think it is. Again, how often do teams that you would say are in a clear second class at this point in a season end up winning the Cup? Pretty rare.

And if they're a top 10 or so team in this league, if they make one or two upgrades that address issues on the team, now won't that make the Rangers more likely to be a toss up with those 5-6 teams instead of clearly worse?

1) I don't think so, no.

2) To chase the high-level upgrades they'd need - say, like, Giordano, Hertl, and another forward, how many fricking future assets are we giving up? And what if it doesn't work? Again, renting is usually a losing proposition. You are paying an exhorbitant price just to try to crack into a tier where you have even odds with another 5-6 teams, so at best you are still like just a 15-20% chance.

It's too much to pay at this stage for them and where they are currently sitting (given underlying stats).

 

[Vitto79]

Please tell me McKegg can be sent to the taxi? no waivers ?

 

[Vitto79]

Frankly Howden, Hajek, 1st for McDonagh with retention was a severe underpayment too

you cant say that then offer crap for Miller

that’s a 1st , former 1st , former 2nd for McD


so what’s Miller get a 1st , Robertson and Lundkvist ?

 

[mas0764]

And then he was eventually shipped out for a rental and a 2nd rounder.

Let's make the same mistake again!

 

[mas0764]

Chytil + Robertson + 2nd for Miller at 50% is miles more realistic than anything Canucks fans are proposing

Pass.

 

[Thirty One]

Frankly Howden, Hajek, 1st for McDonagh with retention was a severe underpayment too

There was no retention on the McDonagh trade.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

I think if you can get a top of the lineup player for a price you're comfortable with, you do it even if you don't see a top line player a need.

Having JT Miller centering your 3rd line makes you that much better. Now you have 3 legit scoring lines instead of 2. And if you play him in the top 6 now one of those guys are going to be pushed down, so it's the same result.

Not directed at you or your point, but I've seen some people say he's not a worthwhile target because you shouldn't trade for a first line player just to use him on the 3rd line but that's crazy to me. If you have a first line player on your 3rd line, your 3rd line is going to kick ass. People sometimes get too caught up in the number of the line, spot in lineup and stuff like that. You can bet your ass if the Rangers acquire JT Miller (or a comparable player) that whatever number line he plays on at 5v5, he is routinely going to be in the top 6 time on ice for our forwards every game.

I also think people need to get comfortable with Drury trading serious value away at some point here. Part of the entire point of a rebuild, along with drafting and developing players to play on the Rangers, is to acquire capital to use as ammunition in trades. Not all of these prospects are going to be on the Rangers just as a numbers game and it becomes a balancing act of trading guys who don't have a spot before they lose value and holding on to others who are a bit younger who can fill in as the lineup spots open in the future. So we amassed a ton of capital so it won't sting as much if we trade a couple 2nd rounders away or if we trade our 3rd or 4th ranked prospect or something. We're deep enough organizationally that we won't be completely baring the cupboard like in years past.

Not saying a similar move is out there to be made or even should be made, but people were losing their shit laughing when Tampa traded a first rounder for Goodrow. Two cups laters, who even cares who San Jose selected with that pick?


Man, JT Miller at 50% retained for this season and next really would be a tremendous fit on this team. I would trade serious capital to get that done. Not Eichel deal level stuff, but a 1st and a top prospect and a lower level prospect- absolutely. Would people really be upset if we traded 1st+Lundkvist OR Kravtsov + Hunter Skinner or someone like that or Miller?

Problem with this is most dont think JT miller is a 1st line player. He is a 2nd liner. He only plays on the 1st line because its the Canucks, who else do they have.

He is basically 29yo, he isnt a future type player that can play center to laf and kakko.

JT Miller is not the guy you trade away your prime assets for. You save that for a Scheiffele , larkin, so on.

 

[Ola]

There was no retention on the McDonagh trade.

Haven’t read the thread, but are you sure that you are replying to someone that wrote “retention” and not “rear-tension” since the topic seem to be the McDonagh trade?

 

[McRanger92]

The only teams in the East that really worry me are the 2 Florida teams and Carolina.

Everyone else can be had. Toronto is good too but I'll believe they get over the playoff hump when I see it.

Ill reserve judgment until I see Carolina up close, but i have a hard time putting them up there with the 2 Florida teams. I think they have a lot of defenseman who are the types to struggle in the playoffs (DeAngelo/Skjei), and no one is scared of Freddy Anderson in a playoff series

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

you can say that they offer crap for Miller

that’s a 1st , former 1st , former 2nd

so what’s Miller get a 1st , Robertson and Lundkvist ?

Frankly thats not how it goes. Just bc someone was a 1st round pick a year or 2 ago doesnt mean 2nd 3rd or even 4th round pick players dont jump you in the prospects ranking list.

Howden, Hajek, and a 1st.

What was Howden and Hajek in their prospect rankings.. Then do that with the rangers prospects. Nils is at the top of our list.

Be more like Reunenen, 1st, and Pujuniemi