Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXII

[Fitzy]

So would I. Gives you two shots with him at a great number and allows the Rangers to be a bit more flexible in the offseason.

Not to sound cliche here but is JT Miller the type of player this team is lacking/ needs to be successful?

Our first PP unit is loaded up and isn’t going to change until such time as Strome moves on, assuming he does.

Frankly a good even strength two way winger like Buchnevich is what we really could have used this year, not to dredge that up again.

As for sorting the lineup the path to me is pretty clear- make Goodrow or Barron a full time center.

We need a little more even strength production from the third line. That’s by far the biggest glaring hole we have right now and a lot of the culprit is a combination of poor performance and lack of chemistry between Laf Chytil and Gaut

 

[bleedblue94]

Um, but it didn't. They lost for half a decade and then became multi time Cup winners. It did not cause them to become Edmonton or Buffalo.

Yeah it took a lot to pull them out. That's the point here, we need more talent still.

If Pittsburgh had gone gung-ho after getting Malkin and never drafted Crosby, they also do not become Edmonton or Buffalo but they sure as hell don't win 3 Cups.



I'm not skipping over anything. You are arguing that tanking doesn't work. That is incorrect. It did work. Pointing out that their tanking was somehow special because they got an elite player is exactly the point.

The risk to becoming Edmonton isn't because they did too much losing. Edmonton is Edmonton because they are a horribly run franchise that can't get out of it's own way, not because they lost too much and a losing culture set in. If losing too much doomed you to being a loser forever no one would ever have success tanking. But teams do have success tanking, they tank and then get special, elite talent, and then they turn it around with good management.

We have (had?) good management. We are an Original 6 team with an allure, good facilities, a good fan base, players want to play here, and at the very least our owner is willing to spend. We aren't going to become Edmonton or Buffalo.

Yes I experienced the dark ages. There was a whole lot of "win now" moves at the expense of youth. Did you experience those years?



Whatever it was they did is what I'm saying is effective. Losing and missing the playoffs for 5 years in a row.

They were edm, that's the point. They were awful and it took years to come out of it. Kane and toews were the final push but they also had, checks notes, Keith Seabrook sharp buff havlat Campbell versteeg ladd etc.

You realize Pitt got Crosby in a league wide lottery that had nothing to do with their play the previous season right, there was no season...




"Whatever it was they did is what I'm saying is effective. Losing and missing the playoffs for 5 years in a row."

We haven't been in the playoffs since 2017, it's 2022. We are in the same boat. It is time to move forward, and again they didn't bring in the guys they did this summer just to not make a push this year.

 

[cheech70]

I will say this, as long as the players get along with Kravtsov it would be a huge mistake for Drury not to attempt to get him here, we're talking about giving up assets for scoring wingers here and this guy like him or hate him costs us nothing to have on the team. He needs to play here whether he is a long term fixture here or not. Him not playing NHL games ruins his value and hurts this current team.

KHL on hold............... season could bleed into late April or May

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Did it last year too. I always put some cash on them at the beginning of the year to make it interesting.
Maybe you can keep telling me how bad they are and have no chance, and I’ll bet those games straight up

That’s what I’m saying. You did it last year and they lost. Maybe try not betting on them and see what happens.

Take them on Wednesday and post the slip. Truly hope it cashes.

 

[bleedblue94]

I agree they check off way more of that list than "a lot of other teams."

How is that relevant, though?

Yeah, the Rangers are clearly better than approximately 20 other teams in the league. No debate.

They are also clearly worse than 5-6 other teams too.



If I was a betting man I'd put my money on Tampa again.

How is it not relevant to be in a better position than the vast majority of the rest of your competitors?

So if there are 5 or 6 teams better positioned then them right now how is it not prudent to add to take a chance? How much better do you need to be?

And who are these 5-6 teams?

 

[DanielBrassard]

Not to sound cliche here but is JT Miller the type of player this team is lacking/ needs to be successful?

Our first PP unit is loaded up and isn’t going to change until such time as Strome moves on, assuming he does.

Frankly a good even strength two way winger like Buchnevich is what we really could have used this year, not to dredge that up again.

As for sorting the lineup the path to me is pretty clear- make Goodrow or Barron a full time center.

We need a little more even strength production from the third line. That’s by far the biggest glaring hole we have right now and a lot of the culprit is a combination of poor performance and lack of chemistry between Laf Chytil and Gaut

The Rangers need as much help as they can get up front, they are in the bottom 3rd of the league in GF/60 at 5v5. Miller isn't a slouch either defensively.

 

[Avery16]

could be interesting, those rosters from 2002-2004 were like some weird Frankenstein team.

 

[bleedblue94]

No team is ever a favorite against the field but certain teams certainly have the best odds versus any other particular team. And why trade long term assets when the short term additions aren't likely to swing the odds in your favor substantially?

But that's beside the point. The issue is that there is a clear cut group of teams that have talent edges. While the Rangers have many of the boxes currently checked, indeed perhaps the hardest boxes currently checked, they do not have all the boxes currently checked or even enough of them to be a real threat. This is pretty easily ascertained by observing their 5 on 5 numbers; they simply do not have enough top offensive OR defensively matured talent to tilt the ice in their favor consistently.

They are not there yet. Ergo this is not the year to buy, unless it's for something exceedingly cheap that they will not miss in the future, and what's more, their long term hopes require 2-3 more young forwards who have top 6 potential, including a 1B center.

You want to have fun and enjoy this run, go ahead. No one is saying to be miserable. We are a team on the rise and there's no preventing that. I'm just not putting it on a credit card. And there is still some roster construction to be done.

You keep skirting.

Who are the teams you deem okay to go for it this year?

 

[Fitzy]

The Rangers need as much help as they can get up front, they are in the bottom 3rd of the league in GF/60 at 5v5. Miller isn't a slouch either defensively.

He gets kind of shoe horned into a spot there regardless of chemistry.

When we added Martin St Louis the need was clear- we had a lot of good forwards but no real game breakers. He was supposed to be a PPG guy and the biggest true scoring threat amongst a bunch of guys producing at 1B/2A level.

This time around we’ve got much better high end skill, so I’m just a little bit hesitant to declare yet another finesse top line player the correct investment of major pieces.

 

[duhmetreE]

All I know, Goaltending and the hottest team reigns supreme for the Playoffs.

You could dominate the regular season with a 60% xG% but get swept in the first round.

You could win 62 games in the regular season and then get swept in the first round.

We have the tools needed for success in the Playoffs. Regular Season stats do not matter in the Playoffs.

 

[bhamill]

Protect Kravtsov at all costs

This is a shocker.
hahaha

 

[mas0764]

They were edm, that's the point. They were awful and it took years to come out of it. Kane and toews were the final push but they also had, checks notes, Keith Seabrook sharp buff havlat Campbell versteeg ladd etc.

Right, it takes years to acquire enough talent. We didn't quite take long enough, IMO. But that's water under the bridge at this point.

"Whatever it was they did is what I'm saying is effective. Losing and missing the playoffs for 5 years in a row."

We haven't been in the playoffs since 2017, it's 2022. We are in the same boat. It is time to move forward, and again they didn't bring in the guys they did this summer just to not make a push this year.

We last made the playoffs outright (not counting qualifying round) in 2016-17. It is now 2021-22, and we are almost certain to make the playoffs this season. That will be 4 years missing. We are a little short.

Unfortunately missing on the front end on Andersson (if he was even a solid 3c, future 2C we would be way ahead of the game) and, so far, Kravtsov, has really hurt us. Add those two pieces in as what they were supposed to be and we aren't having this discussion, really. We need like one center for the future and we have more assets to get it.

I continue to maintain we are 2-3 top 6 forwards away including a future 1B type center.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

How does this change the point though?

Someone said tanking doesn't work.

Well, whatever you call it, losing until you've drafted enough at the top of drafts to have elite talent does in fact work.

Because nothing Chicago did was intentional, they had a terrible owner who refused to spend money to improve the team. They were aimless. Is that a model the Rangers should follow?

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Not to sound cliche here but is JT Miller the type of player this team is lacking/ needs to be successful?

Our first PP unit is loaded up and isn’t going to change until such time as Strome moves on, assuming he does.

Frankly a good even strength two way winger like Buchnevich is what we really could have used this year, not to dredge that up again.

As for sorting the lineup the path to me is pretty clear- make Goodrow or Barron a full time center.

We need a little more even strength production from the third line. That’s by far the biggest glaring hole we have right now and a lot of the culprit is a combination of poor performance and lack of chemistry between Laf Chytil and Gaut

Miller if nothing else is a good even strength offensive producer. Over the last three years he is 31st among forwards in 5v5 points. Same amount as Zibanejad in that time frame (albeit with 8 more games played).

His defensive numbers still leave a bit to be desired. But if they are looking for offensive juice at even strength I think he would fit the bill.

 

[duhmetreE]

The Rangers need as much help as they can get up front, they are in the bottom 3rd of the league in GF/60 at 5v5. Miller isn't a slouch either defensively.

IMO There's a major issue in the system execution. More talent doesn't necessarily fix the issue.

 

[bleedblue94]

Right, it takes years to acquire enough talent. We didn't quite take long enough, IMO. But that's water under the bridge at this point.



We last made the playoffs outright (not counting qualifying round) in 2016-17. It is now 2021-22, and we are almost certain to make the playoffs this season. That will be 4 years missing. We are a little short.

Unfortunately missing on the front end on Andersson (if he was even a solid 3c, future 2C we would be way ahead of the game) and, so far, Kravtsov, has really hurt us. Add those two pieces in as what they were supposed to be and we aren't having this discussion, really. We need like one center for the future and we have more assets to get it.

I continue to maintain we are 2-3 top 6 forwards away including a future 1B type center.

You can add two forwards at the deadline. If you add pavelski and Miller or two like that than you have no excuse.

The team missed on certain players. It hurts and it sucks but it's over. Who's to say if they sell off to draft again they don't miss again and the franchise is then at a net negative from it's position now?

 

[mas0764]

How is it not relevant to be in a better position than the vast majority of the rest of your competitors?

Because only the winner is what interests me.

People often in this debate like to frame how we are positioned currently in reference to our Stanley Cup losing team in '13-14. Or the Montreal team that lost last year.

Like, "look, we are close, we are like these teams who were just 2-3 wins away from winning the Cup."

It's deceiving. Those teams were never going to win those Cups. Montreal had zero chance of beating Tampa, because Tampa conforms, and Montreal does not. It would take a once every two decade miracle.

So if there are 5 or 6 teams better positioned then them right now how is it not prudent to add to take a chance? How much better do you need to be?

They need to conform to the checklist or come damn close to it. They do not yet and there's nothing they are going to do this deadline which will solve their issues. Doing so would require them to add like 4-5 pieces. Or they have to wait till it organically matures.

 

[bleedblue94]

Because only the winner is what interests me.

People often in this debate like to frame how we are positioned currently in reference to our Stanley Cup losing team in '13-14. Or the Montreal team that lost last year.

Like, "look, we are close, we are like these teams who were just 2-3 wins away from winning the Cup."

It's deceiving. Those teams were never going to win those Cups. Montreal had zero chance of beating Tampa, because Tampa conforms, and Montreal does not. It would take a once every two decade miracle.



They need to conform to the checklist or come damn close to it. They do not yet and there's nothing they are going to do this deadline which will solve their issues. Doing so would require them to add like 4-5 pieces. Or they have to wait till it organically matures.

Again,

Who are the teams you deem okay to go for it this year? Who are the 5-6 that are better positioned than us as you said.

 

[mas0764]

You can add two forwards at the deadline. I'd you add pavelski and Miller or two like that than you have no excuse.

They aren't good enough on defense to win this year either.

It's an illusion. This team is not winning the Cup as much as we want them to.

The team missed on certain players. It hurts and it sucks but it's over. Who's to say if they sell off to draft again they don't miss again and the franchise is then at a net negative from it's position now?

They don't need to sell off, they just need some more future pieces and can't let a present chase get in the way of that. But that's the risk of competition. You may never get there. But they certainly aren't going to get there by being overpaying buyers at this deadline.

 

[mas0764]

Again,

Who are the teams you deem okay to go for it this year? Who are the 5-6 that are better positioned than us as you said.

Huh? I'm not advocating for other teams or telling them whether to go for it or now. I'm talking about what the Rangers should do.

 

[mas0764]

Because nothing Chicago did was intentional, they had a terrible owner who refused to spend money to improve the team. They were aimless. Is that a model the Rangers should follow?

No.

But it doesn't change that Chicago accidentally sucked into high draft positioning and then turning their fortunes around.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Again,

Who are the teams you deem okay to go for it this year? Who are the 5-6 that are better positioned than us as you said.

Personally I’d name Colorado, Tampa, Florida, St. Louis at this point as teams with a legit shot at winning it all and should go all in.

 

[mas0764]

You keep skirting.

Who are the teams you deem okay to go for it this year?

It's not relevant, I'm not skirting anything.

If you are trying to bait me into a let's run down every other team's roster debate, I'm not interested.

 

[duhmetreE]

Who can't we beat leading up to the Stanley Cup Finals? Florida?

I think we can currently beat any Eastern Conference team in a 7 game set.... We also still have over half of the season to improve.

 

[mas0764]

Who can't we beat leading up to the Stanley Cup Finals? Florida?

I think we can currently beat any Eastern Conference team in a 7 game set.... We also still have over half of the season to improve.

I could see us beating any given team. What I can't see us doing is beating three superior teams in a row.