Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXII

[bleedblue94]

Eichel has been skating with the team already and is slated to be back sometime next month, so at the very least 10 mill gotta go before the deadline. I don't know about Martinez. Don't forget, the playoffs start in May this year, tough to drag a LTIR injury out for an extra full month of the season.

I know he's supposed to be back in February, but my question really is do we know how much accumulated cap space they have at this point? I don't know what the exact number is, but Kelly Mac was on doing interviews last week and could not possibly seem less concerned about their cap situation than he was. I don't even think it was so much him trying to play it off cool, I just honestly don't think he cares because he knows they have enough options and flexibility on how to handle it. That guy's not an idiot at all, I'm sure he has multiple options out there and how to go depending on when certain players recover from injury.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

The price for JT is too high for 1.5 years...Drury did not succumb to the Vegas price for Eichel ....this is not the year to go for it.

Agree 100%. This is not the guy for us. And Frank saying he's wondering if they'd part with any good prospects make it seem like they aren't interested in trading any of the big guys for him anyway.

 

[mas0764]

I am a firm believer of that need for top-of-the-draft talent in order to win a cup. You get those players by being bad. In the cap era, the only teams that have done it without that are the Wings (won because they drafted Lidstrom, Zetterberg, Datsyuk in the later rounds) and the Bruins (drafted Marchand, Bergeron, Krecji, Thomas in the later rounds and signed Chara, and who even still had Seguin on their team who played big when they needed him to). It's much easier to win like the Blackhawks, Kings, Penguins and Lightning did than the Red Wings and Bruins. The key to all of it is great drafting. You need those top of the draft guys but you also need to find guys in the later rounds. That's why the Oilers are bad - their later round drafting is dogshit.

I prefer to look at the NHL post-Redwings dominance.

They were a holdover from a team that was assembled pre-cap and with scouting and assets devoted to overseas that other teams did not mimic at the time.

Since their decline the league has a lot more parity.

I love to use the Penguins as an example because their Cup wins disprove a lot of silly narratives on here ("tanking doesn't work") but I do understand that we are not going to become the Penguins simply because we did not suck in years where we could draft a Crosby and a Malkin.

Tampa Bay is also hard to replicate simply because they have a Super Team. They are quite possibly going to win three Cups in a row because they are just overflowing with talent everywhere. It is also probably not quite realistic that we become Tampa (or in any way realistically challenge them in a 7 game series while they remain assembled).

But becoming a two or three time winner like the Kings or Blackhawks is quite possible. I think Boston is another template as a team that won 1 Cup and probably should have won another. Look at their cores and try to copy.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I know he's supposed to be back in February, but my question really is do we know how much accumulated cap space they have at this point? I don't know what the exact number is, but Kelly Mac was on doing interviews last week and could not possibly seem less concerned about their cap situation than he was. I don't even think it was so much him trying to play it off cool, I just honestly don't think he cares because he knows they have enough options and flexibility on how to handle it. That guy's not an idiot at all, I'm sure he has multiple options out there and how to go depending on when certain players recover from injury.

He also said "hey someone is always injured so maybe we can just do that." If our GM said that I'd head for the hills. That's not a way to build a team.

Checking cap friendly they are saying they have currently 5 mill in deadline space, however, that's still not enough to get both Eichel and Martinez back on the team, and not even enough for just Eichel.

Vegas has built their team like a drunken sailor. They've also traded away almost all of their high end young talent that could potentially slot in and replaced guys.

 

[mas0764]

The price for JT is too high for 1.5 years...Drury did not succumb to the Vegas price for Eichel ....this is not the year to go for it.

I actually think what Drury offered Buffalo was way better than what Vegas offered.

Buffalo just didn't want to trade him here.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I prefer to look at the NHL post-Redwings dominance.

They were a holdover from a team that was assembled pre-cap and with scouting and assets devoted to overseas that other teams did not mimic at the time.

Since their decline the league has a lot more parity.

I love to use the Penguins as an example because their Cup wins disprove a lot of silly narratives on here ("tanking doesn't work") but I do understand that we are not going to become the Penguins simply because we did not suck in years where we could draft a Crosby and a Malkin.

Tampa Bay is also hard to replicate simply because they have a Super Team. They are quite possibly going to win three Cups in a row because they are just overflowing with talent everywhere. It is also probably not quite realistic that we become Tampa.

But becoming a two or three time winner like the Kings or Blackhawks is quite possible. I think Boston is another template as a team that won 1 Cup and probably should have won another. Look at their cores and try to copy.

The hard fact is that Tanking does work. That's not to say that there aren't risks associated with it, and you can't build your whole team that way, but it does work. People have a hard time with this because of the risk factor but I'd rather play the odds. If you look at the best teams in the league this season, 8 of them have picked either 1 overall or 2 overall and some have both, including us, those players production to our team notwithstanding.

 

[jay from jersey]

I prefer to look at the NHL post-Redwings dominance.

They were a holdover from a team that was assembled pre-cap and with scouting and assets devoted to overseas that other teams did not mimic at the time.

Since their decline the league has a lot more parity.

I love to use the Penguins as an example because their Cup wins disprove a lot of silly narratives on here ("tanking doesn't work") but I do understand that we are not going to become the Penguins simply because we did not suck in years where we could draft a Crosby and a Malkin.

Tampa Bay is also hard to replicate simply because they have a Super Team. They are quite possibly going to win three Cups in a row because they are just overflowing with talent everywhere. It is also probably not quite realistic that we become Tampa.

But becoming a two or three time winner like the Kings or Blackhawks is quite possible. I think Boston is another template as a team that won 1 Cup and probably should have won another. Look at their cores and try to copy.

Boston should be our template.
All their teams were big, physical, and played well as a unit.
Imo, they are our most comparable franchise.
With a bit better D/Goaltending, which I believe we have as a whole, they could have won 2 possibly even 3 times.
Even with a lot of their key guys in their mid/early 30s, they are still absolutely a playoff team still needing better overall D/goaltending.

 

[mas0764]

I can't keep rehashing the same things over and over with you, but saying that there's no reasonable way to turn this team into a cup winner at this deadline is absolutely ridiculous.

Well that is my genuine belief. The team is dogshit at 5 on 5 currently. All the winning is masking that the team is a boring unstructured mess most of the time that has a hard time generating and sustaining offensive pressure.

I don't see any player or two players that turn that around who are available to them.

What we are most missing is another top center, and then the maturation of 2-3 forwards (Kakko, Lafreniere, Chytil/Kravtsov) and 2-3 defenders (Lundkvist, Schneider, Jones/Robertson).

That's our path. All those things need to be accomplished. The team isn't going to turn into a powerhouse that can win a Cup without a good number of improvements from young players.

The problem is by time that happens, and by time they've gotten another top C to play on their second line, Zibanejad and Kreider are not going to be Zibanejad and Kreider anymore.

The team is, as egelband said, unsynced. They think they can have two windows but I think they are wrong.

They literally have the hardest pieces to acquire while also having significant cap space and assets to make trades.

Having those pieces isn't enough. They need more.

Nobody around here is advocating for trading premium assets for rentals, although you keep saying they shouldn't do it as if people are arguing with you to just give away their best players for grinders. It's like you're trying to argue with yourself rather than argue against reasonable takes by others.

Well then why are you arguing with me?

Let's enjoy the inevitable playoff run and elimination for what it is, and focus on getting another young center and winger in here while we wait on Kakko and Laf and the defenders to mature.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Boston should be our template

The template of finding two number 1 centers, as well as a winger who is one of the best players in the game, later in the draft is near impossible.

We've picked 1st and 2nd overall. This team's template is already in the mold of the Lightning, et al.

 

[cheech70]

We have a very good coach..3 legit superstars..then Mika,Kreider and the young ins....a trade for an impact top 6 player with term is best done in the offseason.

 

[mas0764]

If Miller can avoid slipping back into the behaviour that got him traded twice in 16 months, he can be a huge asset for this team and an easy yes from me.

I don't think the return will be that exciting for Canucks fans though.

If I could keep Chytil and Kravtsov out of the deal I might be able to live with trading a first.

 

[Boris Zubov]

If I could keep Chytil and Kravtsov out of the deal I might be able to live with trading a first.

In all likelihood, Kravtsov is never playing a game for us. This is the perfect type of deal to include him in, IMO.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Great news

 

[bhamill]

New York Rangers current Vegas odds of winning the Cup are +2500. 14th best odds.
There are 5 teams at +1000 or under, with Colorado at +550...
That's what people without emotional attachment assess the situation as.

Yes, ANYTHING can happen when you get into the playoffs, but I don't think the NYR odds increase too much by adding even two of people's wish list pieces. If they are rentals that cost significant assets, and yes I DO see some people suggesting trading 1sts, 2nds and top prospects for rentals, then you hurt your odds significantly going forward without much increase in likelihood of winning THIS year. That's where some of us stand on it. Not saying you can't hope for the best, but realistically I see it as counterproductive overall.
I guess we will see what they do, and what happens if they go all in.

 

[mas0764]

The template of finding two number 1 centers, as well as a winger who is one of the best players in the game, later in the draft is near impossible.

We've picked 1st and 2nd overall. This team's template is already in the mold of the Lightning, et al.

But we have so far to go to match the Lightning.

In any case, we aren't going to exactly match anyone.

Here's the long term outlook we need to focus on (and I'm not saying these will be the exact lines, just a guideline):

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kakko
Panarin - Young Center - Kravtsov
Young winger - Young Center - Chytil
4th Line WGAS

Miller - Fox
Jones - Schneider
Robertson - Lundkvist

There is your winner in 3-4 years from now. But you need Chytil and Kravtsov to stick. You can't run those guys off already; you just maybe need to lower expectations a little. Kravtsov can still be a 40-50 point second line winger. Chytil can be a 40 point third line winger.

As far as "grit," goes the Hunts and Reaves who can't really play otherwise are not important. What you need is sandpaper in that top 9/top 4, but that just means yours stars can't be pushovers. Lafreniere, Kakko and Chytil all have that requisite size, toughness, and edge.

If we had acquired a player like Lundell, he's also the perfect template for a large, tough to knock off the puck, knows how to throw his weight around gritty forward who can also put up offense and play defense all over the ice.

So basically at this point we need two Lundells and then to have some of Othmann, Berard, Panjuniemi, Barron, and Cuylle fill out the bottom.

We don't need to go get two Nathan MacKinnons in the top 5 of the draft. We need two Lundells picked more like 10-15.

It's not impossible. Figure it out.

But for the love of God don't trade Lundkvist, Schneider, Othmann, Kravtsov, Chytil, first round picks, etc, for players who aren't going to be here to fill out this championship roster.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

But we have so far to go to match the Lightning.

In any case, we aren't going to exactly match anyone.

Here's the long term outlook we need to focus on (and I'm not saying these will be the exact lines, just a guideline):

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kakko
Panarin - Young Center - Kravtsov
Young winger - Young Center - Chytil
4th Line WGAS

Miller - Fox
Jones - Schneider
Robertson - Lundkvist

There is your winner in 3-4 years from now.

As far as "grit," goes the Hunts and Reaves who can't really play otherwise are not important. What you need is sandpaper in that top 9/top 4, but that just means yours stars can't be pushovers. Lafreniere, Kakko and Chytil all have that requisite size.

If we had acquired a player like Lundell, he's also the perfect template for a large, tough to knock off the puck, knows how to throw his weight around gritty forward who can also put up offense and play defense all over the ice.

So basically at this point we need two Lundells and then to have some of Othmann, Berard, Panjuniemi, Barron, and Cuylle fill out the bottom.

We don't need to go get two Nathan MacKinnons in the top 5 of the draft. We need two Lundells picked more like 10-15.

It's not impossible. Figure it out.

But for the love of God don't trade Lundkvist, Schneider, Othmann, Kravtsov, Chytil, first round picks, etc, for players who aren't going to be here to fill out this championship roster.

Yes, we absolutely have far to go, not saying we don't, but that is our template for sure. We are more Lightning than Boston.

 

[mas0764]

In all likelihood, Kravtsov is never playing a game for us. This is the perfect type of deal to include him in, IMO.

If he goes he has to bring back a long term piece, not a rental.

 

[Boris Zubov]

If he goes he has to bring back a long term piece, not a rental.

JT Miller isn't a rental. He's signed for another year.

 

[CLW]

The Pengs have just punished VGK right from the faceoff - coming back from 0-3. Just saying.
And that is just another example of a game that sure as hell tells us we might just stop dreaming about making it past 2 rounds (or even 1) if we don't spread the load much more evenly.

Depth and experience are crucial. At some point soon the Rangers need to stop introducing more kids into the lineup and focus on building experience and expertise.

 

[mas0764]

JT Miller isn't a rental. He's signed for another year.

I'd only want him if it appears we can re-sign him.

 

[Fitzy]

Too much changes in this league to try to make definitive plans four years in the future.

You can have a general game plan but penning a roster you might as well be writing Harry Potter fan fiction

 

[bhamill]

What I would love to see management do with this cap space is take some bad contracts on with assets attached. Contracts that expire after this year from teams that need to clear the space for trade of their own or guys coming off LTIR. Those assets could be packaged post season/at the draft. But that's me. I think we are two years from being a real threat.

 

[NYR Viper]

Too much changes in this league to try to make definitive plans four years in the future.

You can have a general game plan but penning a roster you might as well be writing Harry Potter fan fiction

You bite your tongue sir! Harry Potter is real!

 

[jay from jersey]

New York Rangers current Vegas odds of winning the Cup are +2500. 14th best odds.
There are 5 teams at +1000 or under, with Colorado at +550...
That's what people without emotional attachment assess the situation as.

Yes, ANYTHING can happen when you get into the playoffs, but I don't think the NYR odds increase too much by adding even two of people's wish list pieces. If they are rentals that cost significant assets, and yes I DO see some people suggesting trading 1sts, 2nds and top prospects for rentals, then you hurt your odds significantly going forward without much increase in likelihood of winning THIS year. That's where some of us stand on it. Not saying you can't hope for the best, but realistically I see it as counterproductive overall.
I guess we will see what they do, and what happens if they go all in.

I put 500 on them at the beginning of the season. But I do that every year. I got +4000 so I’m hoping goaltending/special teams can steal us a few rounds and we catch some lighting in a bottle

 

[Crease]

Not saying the Rangers should go all in, but waiting isn't risk-free. Given the Rangers track record of developing forwards, their unused draft picks won't factor for at least another 5 years (if ever). And while their cupboard feels stocked at the moment (Laf, Kakko, Chytil, Miller, Lundvkist, Kravstov, Schneider, Jones, Othmann, Berard, Robertson, Cuylle), odds are that quite a few of these guys are not going to pan out.