Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXII

[TheBloodyNine]

All you talk about is how we are doomed anyway because they don’t score fifty goals every night, so what’s the difference?

Yes, me complaining about the Rangers being one of THE WORST 5v5 teams in the league is tantamount to me saying they need to score 50 goals a night. Brilliant analysis. I can't believe wanting this team to be a better 5v5 team is now something that is unheard of and shouldn't be spoken about.

I guess I could say the opposite to you, you're fine with the Rangers as currently constructed being an awful 5v5 team, so what's the difference?

 

[bleedblue94]

This is what the article said about Tampa FWIW, in regards to the checklist:

The Lightning have an elite first-line center in Brayden Point, an elite winger on his right in Nikita Kucherov and another elite winger in Steven Stamkos on Line 2. Every other forward at least fits into the range of the average contender for their position, with many leaning toward the higher end of the spectrum.

Tampa Bay does have that elite number one defender in Victor Hedman, but his game slipped as he played through injury late in the season. Before that, he was a three-win defenseman; and for their Cup run last year, he was closer to 4.5, showing how he can elevate his game when it matters most (when his body allows it).

Ryan McDonagh and Mikhail Sergachev lead their respective pairs on the left below Hedman. Two righties, on the other hand, fall short relative to these guidelines in Jan Rutta and David Savard. Savard, after missing Game 1, is day-to-day, and his replacement, Luke Schenn, rates even worse (-0.49).

The Lightning’s lineup is so strong, though, that those “weak links” aren’t really a problem. Plus, they have one of the league’s best in net with Andrei Vasilevskiy.

--------------

This is what their chart looks like, then our most recent, just as an example, players and numbers have changed since then.

I'm just curious if you realize you just posted the finished roster constructed for a stanley cup championship which includes at least 5 players that are already gone from tampa which also includes rentals and self rentals.

Tampa knew they were going to lose players off that roster but they didnt just trade them for the sake of your concept of long term asset management or whatever catch phase you want to use, they kept them to compete for a championship. Yet you want a top 5 team in the NHL to sell off and not consider adding to its roster to plug its own holes to be better.

Are you trying to win a stanley cup or have the best dynasty roster in fantasy hockey?

There are at least 5 players on that posted roster that TB identified and then acquired to improve the team specifically for a playoff run, that only backs up the point that if you have the key pieces (elite goalie, elite wings, 1c, elite 1d, etc) you are justified in adding to the roster to go for it. You literally just made my point...

 

[Vitto79]

I’d rather go for a Toffoli. Cheaper RW

say Toffoli and Kulak for Chytil , Nemeth , 2nd

opens up some cap space to pay for Toffoli

 

[bleedblue94]

Put me in the camp of No to Miller.

Seravelli has been good but nobody knows what’s happening inside the Rangers front office these days. I take shit like this with a huge grain of you know what.

What has he been good about other than the expansion draft? He killed it that weekend, he clearly had a source in seattle, but has he really been on top of anything else above and beyond the other insiders?

 

[bleedblue94]

I mean, if you step back and forget Miller during his time here, he’s kind of the perfect target for this team. He’s still got one year left on his deal, can slot anywhere in the lineup this year, and easily slots in at 2C next year. He’d also prevent them from giving a long-term deal to Strome and buy them another year for Chytil to figure it out (assuming he isn’t moved). I think that’s where the most value would be in this deal.

I liked Miller during his time here, even though he got incredibly frustrating at the end. If the team is going to make a big move -whether you agree with it or not - getting someone in the same mold as JT Miller does make the most sense. I’m just not sure who else is out there that also has some term and plays C that’s realistically available for trade.

Players mature and grow up, he seems to be no exception. The other good part is that this is basically a new teams since he left so he wouldnt be coming back to any of the bad vibes he left behind.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

What has he been good about other than the expansion draft? He killed it that weekend, he clearly had a source in seattle, but has he really been on top of anything else above and beyond the other insiders?

I think you're right. I have to look back but I thought he was pretty decent during FA as well. But you're right that that is where his recent notoriety is coming from. But that's also why I hedged what I said with "But I don't think any of these guys really know what's going on in the Rangers front office," and I think that still holds true.

 

[bleedblue94]

I’d rather go for a Toffoli. Cheaper RW

say Toffoli and Kulak for Chytil , Nemeth , 2nd

opens up some cap space to pay for Toffoli

Toffoli cant skate, you can hide that on a team that has some better skaters, but NYR already is a generally poor skating team. They wouldnt be able to hide his skating here. And if Chytil gets moved out our team skating quickly gets worse as he is one of the better and faster skaters on this team. I want no part of toffoli at all

 

[bleedblue94]

I think you're right. I have to look back but I thought he was pretty decent during FA as well. But you're right that that is where his recent notoriety is coming from. But that's also why I hedged what I said with "But I don't think any of these guys really know what's going on in the Rangers front office," and I think that still holds true.

I'm not picking on you, was asking bc I wasnt sure if I was remembering wrong.

Honestly I wouldnt be the least surprised if Frank paid someone handsomely for the information since it made a name for himself and basically launched his hockey insider company to notoriety. I mean prior to that did anyone really care was Frank said? It was on par with anyone else on twitter. He has one good weekend and now people consider him like they would a Freidman and some started comparing him to the Bobfather which was just ridiculous.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

My deadline prediction at this point is Reilly Smith to play with Panarin and Strome, and a depth LD that they can replace Nemeth with. Neither of those two things should cost an arm and a leg. They address their needs in the middle of the ice in the summer.

 

[bleedblue94]

My deadline prediction at this point is Reilly Smith to play with Panarin and Strome, and a depth LD that they can replace Nemeth with. Neither of those two things should cost an arm and a leg. They address their needs in the middle of the ice in the summer.

I think dadanov is going to be dealt before smith, and bc of that if you want smith he is going to cost something. Also Smith is second on their team in scoring this year (yes, other guys have been hurt but Smith has been really important for that team again this year) and he has a history of being a great playoff player (better than reg season) while dadanov has no significant nhl playoff experience. Vegas is going for a cup. I see no reason for Vegas to trade him.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Assume I'm in the minority but I would be excited to add Miller. Could see him as an outstanding fit with Panarin and Strome.

 

[mas0764]

I'm just curious if you realize you just posted the finished roster constructed for a stanley cup championship which includes at least 5 players that are already gone from tampa which also includes rentals and self rentals.

Of course. The point of posting it was a demonstration of what the different categories of the checklist look like in real life on a Cup winner.

Tampa knew they were going to lose players off that roster but they didnt just trade them for the sake of your concept of long term asset management or whatever catch phase you want to use, they kept them to compete for a championship. Yet you want a top 5 team in the NHL to sell off and not consider adding to its roster to plug its own holes to be better.

Tampa Bay made short term moves once it was obvious they had a two time (maybe three time) Cup winner on their hands.

I will hate trading a first for Barclay Goodrow (as Tampa did) far less when we have all the star boxes checked off.

Are you trying to win a stanley cup or have the best dynasty roster in fantasy hockey?

I'm trying to win multiple Stanley Cups. I'd like at least two from the Kakko-Lafreniere-Fox core.

If I was convinced that we had "one window now" with Kreider and Zibanejad and then could easily transition to "a second window later," led by Kakko and Lafreniere, I would wholeheartedly support that. But I don't think we are good enough now with the absence of Kakko and Laf being stars yet, and by time they get there, I don't think Kreider and Zibanejad will be good enough any more. As such, and given our obvious 5 on 5 shortcomings this season as an example, I just don't see any way that this team really gets over the hump with "this window." I never have. Guys like Kreider and Strome just aren't good enough to check off those elite boxes that the checklist demands.

So the question to me is, if I can't get there now, how do I get there later?

By trading now for later. No rentals. Keep building.

There are at least 5 players on that posted roster that TB identified and then acquired to improve the team specifically for a playoff run, that only backs up the point that if you have the key pieces (elite goalie, elite wings, 1c, elite 1d, etc) you are justified in adding to the roster to go for it. You literally just made my point...

We don't have the elite pieces yet. If we had those elite pieces I agree we'd be justified. But we don't.

Here's the list, and I'll fill in what we have:

• Elite first-line center that’s among the very best players in the world. < --- Zibanejad
• Elite first-line winger to support the elite centre. <--- Panarin
• Two other top-line wingers on each of the top two lines. <--- Right now, Kreider is one, but maybe for another year or two before he declines.
• Top-line centre to play behind the elite center. <--- We don't have this
• Two more top-six forwards for depth in the middle six. <-- We don't have this. Strome is probably one, but neither Laf, Kakko, or Chytil fill the second void to date.
• Elite No. 1 defenseman. <--- Fox
• A second No. 1 defenseman to play behind him. <--- We don't have this. Trouba isn't good enough to check this box.
• A top-pairing defenseman to help anchor a strong second pair with the No. 2. <-- Maybe Trouba fits here, though I'm still not even quite sure he does.
• Another top-pairing caliber defender to crush soft minutes on the third pair. <-- We don't have this yet, but our pipeline of defenders is strong enough that I can assume we will one day.
• A top-10 caliber starting goaltender. <--- Shesterkin

So we are missing, right this moment, I'd say,

- 1 top line winger
- 1 top line center
- 1 top 6 forward
- 2 top pair caliber defenders

There is no way to acquire this magnitude of assets be renting or free agent signings given our cap situation. We are stuck in good not great territory with this core.

The HOPE is that Lafreniere, Kakko, and Chytil (or Kravtsov) fill those three forward spots, but I'd argue that even if they pan out there's not a top line center in that group, so we are still needing one of those. The hope is also that of our stable of defensive prospects (Lundkvist, Schneider, Jones, Miller, Robertson) you get two studs out of that (and I'd argue your best bet is Lundkvist and Schneider, so they should both probably be kept unless you are getting a long term top center in a package for one), and the others can be solid enough players to fill out your defensive depth, because as we've seen, signing Patrik Nemeths isn't going to cut it.

The problem with those hopes is that by time they come to fruition, at this pace, it's probably going to be another 2-3 seasons. By that time, Kreider is no longer going to be a top line winger. Zibanejad may no longer be a Brayden Point "elite center that's among the best in the world," category. In fact I'd already argue that he's not, but this is where the "checklist," has some flexibility, and I'll say currently it's our "elite first line winger," (Panarin) who is "among the very best players in the world," and that's how we get by.

But it's likely that in those 2-3 seasons Zibanejad is no longer filling that "elite first line center," box and instead he's more of the "top line center to play behind the elite center." Ok.... so where are we getting the elite center from?

Say also by that point that Lafreniere and Kakko are the "two other top line wingers," and Chytil has developed and is one of the "two more top 6 forwards." Who is the other? If we are lucky, Kreider will maybe still be a borderline top 6 player. But maybe he's not. Maybe he declines further - very possible.

Maybe Zibanejad, who has a concussion history, also declines further and faster. Maybe Panarin does not stay at the "one of the best players in the world," category either. Maybe Kakko never gets to "top line winger," but instead just reaches "top 6 winger."

All kinds of pitfalls.

So if I'm left to conclude that there's no reasonable way for us to fill the checklist now, until Kakko, Lafreniere, Chytil/Kravtsov, and the defensive kids have matured, then I have to plan for THAT window.

And THAT window is missing a top center and possibly/probably a top line winger/top 6 winger.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I think dadanov is going to be dealt before smith, and bc of that if you want smith he is going to cost something. Also Smith has a history of being a great playoff player (better than reg season) while dadanov has no significant nhl playoff experience. Vegas is going for a cup. I see no reason for Vegas to trade him.

At the end of the day it's the Knights who are under the gun to make something happen in order to get all of their big guys in the lineup and be cap compliant. Dadonov has a modified trade clause and will be harder to move whereas Smith has no trade protection whatsoever. Smith's UFA status I believe also inures to a trade, since they won't be able to afford him after this season. I don't think it's an either or situation with those two it's most likely both of them, as clearing both their salaries gives them exactly 10 million in cap space. The Rangers are also a team that has a ton of deadline space so could fit his full ticket in with no retention necessary. This is the bed that the Knights have made for themselves. One way or another they are going to be removing something important from their lineup in order to get Eichel in there.

Edit: I just checked, the Knights actually have to remove over $15 million from their lineup in order to get Eichel and Alec Martinez in there. They got some real tough decisions looming.

I also think he's at the top of the Rangers wish list (other than a guy like Hertl) because of his familiarity with Gallant and the team's current needs.

 

[Raspewtin]

I like the idea of Jt Miller , just not sure about adding his cap. I do think he'd help

Story of Miller's career lol

"I like the idea of him, but not him and his circumstances"

 

[mas0764]

For every chicago and pittsburgh there is an edmonton and buffalo.

But we aren't in danger of becoming Edmonton or Buffalo because we are too big a market with too many assets. We are an original 6 team and that has an allure.

We are more like Chicago.

But if you notice, pittsburgh cant really be counted since they were gifted 4 picks straight inside the top 5 to rebuild their team.

The point is they were bad long enough until they had elite talent. That part is true.

Then they went out and got talent to surround them with. Chicago did the same by getting marion hossa and others.. The same as it was in Detriot with Federov and co.

We went out and got Panarin and Trouba.

You cant continue to perpetually rebuild and be at the bottom of the standings every year. It has a drastic effect on the team and its culture. You have to start to surround your young talent with the right vets so that they can learn and so on.

But I'm not arguing to be "perpetually" rebuilding. I'm arguing it just needed to be a little longer.

But this is getting off track - I'm not arguing to go back to tanking. We are a playoff team now.

I'm just saying we don't need to put the foot on the gas. We could safely trade, say, Strome for long term assets, and still be a playoff team. Even forgoing that, we definitely do not need to trade from the future to rent currently.

I agree the rangers screwed up by not drafting centers all these years. But there is still hope on the front that we have a ton of talented players in our system and a massive glut at defense that im sure will end up being a Kravy, Jones, 1st and something else at the draft for that young talented center. Larkin would be perfect. Only 25 and is already a top 25 center in the league. Alot of things can happen from now until the draft which is where i believe we will see out trade for our 2nd line/3rd line center who can be the future #1.

But as I've said it's just going to get harder from here on out. No cap room. Assets are beginning to devalue or get used on our roster. The time to strike was the last two seasons when you had prime aging/expensive assets in Kreider and Buch who could have been parlayed for ransoms, and according to an insider, those ransoms were in fact offered.

So yeah it's still possible, but at some point an adult in the room has to say "No, we don't need to win an extra playoff round right this second. We need to find that all important long term center."

That means no prime assets for rentals, certainly.

 

[mas0764]

I do agree, we probably brought in Panarin too early. But on the other hand, I can understand the thinking. He was available then and the front office didn’t want to let a losing mindset develop. I get it and I think it will work out, too. It’s just a bit painful right now with the apparently-slow development of Kakko, Lafreniere, Chytil… the Rangers are a little un-synched.

Importing Panarin did mess up the order, but I also agree with the front office, he was an elite, elite player who wanted to come play here for less than other teams were offering. It's very hard to pass up on that opportunity, especially when he projects to be so good for so long.

But their problem is that acquiring Panarin should have made them accelerate the tearing down, not accelerate the building back up. Their goal should have been to more quickly liquidate their unneeded long term pieces, get MORE first rounders, get MORE cap space, get MORE prospects, so that they could bottom out the first 2-3 years of his contract and then develop into a contender by year 4-5-6 of his deal. Instead they wanted to instantly make the playoffs and everything they've done since then has been to avoid bottoming out.

It was blatantly obvious by time they got Fox and Trouba that DeAngelo was probably going to be an unnecessary piece. At the very least one of those three needed to go, and since you just signed Trouba and since Fox was the gem prospect, it was obviously DeAngelo. He should have been moved, given his personality, way before he ever became a problem.

Same with Buch - once you had Kakko and Kravtsov in the fold, he should have been traded earlier, and to their credit, they did try to move him for the 8OA from Edmonton in the Kakko draft, but when that fell through, they needed to find a new deal. And then the same with Kreider, he should have been moved. Yes, we did not know we had Lafreniere, but we knew we had three top 6 caliber wings (Panarin, Kakko, Kravtsov) and that Kreider therefore was the 4th, and that we had another top 10 pick coming. And yet they thought it was smart to give their no-better-than-4th-in-the-future-pecking-order winger a $6.5m deal with strong no move protection.

So yeah, now we are left in a position where we are un-synched. Kakko and Laf haven't gotten good enough, quickly enough, to transform our 5-on-5 game and we are probably doomed in the playoffs with this current incarnation.

But by time they get good enough, we will be short an elite Zibanejad, a top line Kreider, and maybe an elite Panarin.

Hurray... we have two different versions of a second round playoff exit team all set up.

Anyway, people are going to accuse me now of complaining about things that are water under the bridge. "Why do you keep bringing up the Buch deal? It's over."

Because we have to learn from it.

So when I say it's time to stop doubling down on the present, these horrific missteps need to be cited as evidence.

 

[mas0764]

And in that vain then we arent that far off from the description if that is the case, just like every other team we need to make some moves to shore up a couple things but we are closer to that recipe than a lot of other teams...

Yeah, we aren't far off, we are short a LONG TERM 1C and a long term top 6 winger, as I keep banging that drum.

So let's go get those things instead of renting.

 

[Tob]

Nice to see @EdJovanovski finally achieve his dreams of dressing up as a woman and worshipping Vitali Kravtsov.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Nice to see @EdJovanovski finally achieve his dreams of dressing up as a woman and worshipping Vitali Kravtsov.

LMAO

 

[bleedblue94]

Of course. The point of posting it was a demonstration of what the different categories of the checklist look like in real life on a Cup winner.

you're not demonstarting anything other than cup winner typically add to their rosters to make a run, which is something you argued against previously so you are actually contradicting yourself.

Tampa Bay made short term moves once it was obvious they had a two time (maybe three time) Cup winner on their hands.

I will hate trading a first for Barclay Goodrow (as Tampa did) far less when we have all the star boxes checked off.

it is NEVER "obvious" to anyone that a team is a cup winner. winning the cup is the hardest thing in all sports and also requires an incredible amount of luck that you cannot quantify. all you can do is put your team in the best position to take advantage of opportunities.

I'm trying to win multiple Stanley Cups. I'd like at least two from the Kakko-Lafreniere-Fox core.

These guys need playoff experience. you need to get them exposed to those games. fox has played 3 random play in games in his career. Panarin and 3 of the team's top 5 players are all rolling into their 30s, the longer you wait the worse the cap situation will get here and the older your best players becomes. if panarin, kreider, and zib were all 3-5 years younger you might be onto something but the fact is they are in or entering their 30s and have a finite time left of being elite players.

If I was convinced that we had "one window now" with Kreider and Zibanejad and then could easily transition to "a second window later," led by Kakko and Lafreniere, I would wholeheartedly support that. But I don't think we are good enough now with the absence of Kakko and Laf being stars yet, and by time they get there, I don't think Kreider and Zibanejad will be good enough any more. As such, and given our obvious 5 on 5 shortcomings this season as an example, I just don't see any way that this team really gets over the hump with "this window." I never have. Guys like Kreider and Strome just aren't good enough to check off those elite boxes that the checklist demands.

you realize if you are just going to phase out of the kreider zib panarin team than at best you hope kakko and laf replace panarin and zib, and then you are actually in a worse postion at that point than you are in the next 2 years unless you are backfilling the losses of panarin, zib, and kreider with new verions of kakko and laf (good luck)...

So the question to me is, if I can't get there now, how do I get there later?

you currently have a top 5 team in the league, what top 5 team has stripped itself down? when is the last time nyr had a top 5 team? what did they do when they had that team (hint, they added to it and made repeated runs).

By trading now for later. No rentals. Keep building.

trading now for later means you are making the team worse, no top 5 or even top 10 nhl team does that. also, going into this season the team made adds to help NOW with reavo, goodrow, ect, what could possibly make you think they would reverse course on that, or even should consider it when it has ben successful. the goal should be further developing the young kids we have while maintaining the successful level of play that we have right now, not stripping it down to hope that we are this good again in a couple of years...

We don't have the elite pieces yet. If we had those elite pieces I agree we'd be justified. But we don't.

we have a 1c, a top 5 winger in the world, a top 5 defenseman in the world, and a top 5 goalie in the world. figure the rest of it out, organizations DREAM of having all those things at the same time...

Here's the list, and I'll fill in what we have:

• Elite first-line center that’s among the very best players in the world. < --- Zibanejad
• Elite first-line winger to support the elite centre. <--- Panarin
• Two other top-line wingers on each of the top two lines. <--- Right now, Kreider is one, but maybe for another year or two before he declines.
• Top-line centre to play behind the elite center. <--- We don't have this
• Two more top-six forwards for depth in the middle six. <-- We don't have this. Strome is probably one, but neither Laf, Kakko, or Chytil fill the second void to date.
• Elite No. 1 defenseman. <--- Fox
• A second No. 1 defenseman to play behind him. <--- We don't have this. Trouba isn't good enough to check this box.
• A top-pairing defenseman to help anchor a strong second pair with the No. 2. <-- Maybe Trouba fits here, though I'm still not even quite sure he does.
• Another top-pairing caliber defender to crush soft minutes on the third pair. <-- We don't have this yet, but our pipeline of defenders is strong enough that I can assume we will one day.
• A top-10 caliber starting goaltender. <--- Shesterkin

So we are missing, right this moment, I'd say,

- 1 top line winger
- 1 top line center
- 1 top 6 forward
- 2 top pair caliber defenders

if you add a top winger or top center than you also have taken care of the top 6 forward

a second top pairing d man? how many teams in the league have two #1 d men. come on, this is fantasy. even in tampa they have an elite #1 and an elite #3. McD is not a top pair guy at this point in his career, but he elevates in the playoffs.

There is no way to acquire this magnitude of assets be renting or free agent signings given our cap situation. We are stuck in good not great territory with this core.

We have something like 30 mil in cap space this season, we can literally acquire anything we want. The entire point is that we dont have that flexibility after this season, and we wont have it unless we are stripping away known quality/elite players to free up cap space for players that we HOPE become quality/elite players.

This is on par with the family guy episode where peter can chose between a boat and a surprise in a box which he hopes is.... a boat...

The HOPE is that Lafreniere, Kakko, and Chytil (or Kravtsov) fill those three forward spots, but I'd argue that even if they pan out there's not a top line center in that group, so we are still needing one of those. The hope is also that of our stable of defensive prospects (Lundkvist, Schneider, Jones, Miller, Robertson) you get two studs out of that (and I'd argue your best bet is Lundkvist and Schneider, so they should both probably be kept unless you are getting a long term top center in a package for one), and the others can be solid enough players to fill out your defensive depth, because as we've seen, signing Patrik Nemeths isn't going to cut it.

how long did this org look for a 1c? they have one now and you are looking to waste the time that we have him in his prime. you can shop around all you want but that brassard zib trade is noted for being awful, and it was awful for ottawa the moment they made it. holding out hope for another gift like that is foolish, you dont plan around benefiting from someone else's mistakes. you plan for reality and you try to be ready for someone's mistakes if the opportunity presents itself. it is on par with planning to win the lottery every year, it doesnt happen...

The problem with those hopes is that by time they come to fruition, at this pace, it's probably going to be another 2-3 seasons. By that time, Kreider is no longer going to be a top line winger. Zibanejad may no longer be a Brayden Point "elite center that's among the best in the world," category. In fact I'd already argue that he's not, but this is where the "checklist," has some flexibility, and I'll say currently it's our "elite first line winger," (Panarin) who is "among the very best players in the world," and that's how we get by.

But it's likely that in those 2-3 seasons Zibanejad is no longer filling that "elite first line center," box and instead he's more of the "top line center to play behind the elite center." Ok.... so where are we getting the elite center from?

you are literally making the point as to why they are in their window and need to go now...

Say also by that point that Lafreniere and Kakko are the "two other top line wingers," and Chytil has developed and is one of the "two more top 6 forwards." Who is the other? If we are lucky, Kreider will maybe still be a borderline top 6 player. But maybe he's not. Maybe he declines further - very possible.

if you have any expectation of chytil being a good top 6 player than you are already planning poorly

Maybe Zibanejad, who has a concussion history, also declines further and faster. Maybe Panarin does not stay at the "one of the best players in the world," category either. Maybe Kakko never gets to "top line winger," but instead just reaches "top 6 winger."

hey, again you are making the point as yo why they are in their window right now and need to go. they have 2-4 years to make it work with this group...

All kinds of pitfalls.

So if I'm left to conclude that there's no reasonable way for us to fill the checklist now, until Kakko, Lafreniere, Chytil/Kravtsov, and the defensive kids have matured, then I have to plan for THAT window.

literally every team in the league has gaping holes on its roster right now, we are one of the very few that have most of the hardest pieces covered, and I believe we are the only one of that group that has an insane amount of cap space for this season...

And THAT window is missing a top center and possibly/probably a top line winger/top 6 winger.

that "window" couldnt be more of an unknown at this point and is foolish to plan for. again, take now where you know you have all the great pieces that you do have OR wait and hope that............. you end up with all the great pieces in the future that you already know that you have today. OH, and you actually have cap space today to address the holes in the roster. it is a complete no brainer...

 

[mas0764]

Chicago hit on two picks after being mediocre for almost a decade, they didnt really actively tank, they were just a poorly run team for a long time.

Call it what you want, actively tanking or just sucking. They were bad until they had enough talent to win. It didn't infect the team or make them losers.

When did the kings outright just tank it out? They had some bad teams prior to the cup runs but that wasnt for tanking.

2005-06 to 2008-09 the Kings finished 4th or 5th in their division each year. That's a 4 year stretch of being terrible (and it followed 2 additional years of also missing the playoffs but being 3rd in their division, but still, 6 straight years of missing the playoffs).

From there, they went playoffs, playoffs, win Cup, playoffs, win Cup.

They did essentially the same thing the rangers did (if not less by keeping kopitar and doughty) recently. Would you advocate for that team to sell off it's players currently in order to reload or are they someone you want to see keep going to a compete, keep in mind their point percentage is .577, the NYR point percentage is .692...

I'm not talking about what the Kings are doing now, I'm talking about what the Kings did in their lead up to 2 Cups.

But again keep in mind while I advocated trading away pieces like Kreider and Buch way earlier, I understand this team is now too good to miss the playoffs no matter what we do. We have ensured that simply by having Zibanejad, Panarin, Fox and Shesterkin. We are too good and there is no tanking.

But I'm also not going to sell the future for the present when I simply do not believe this team can win a Cup this year.

 

[bleedblue94]

Yeah, we aren't far off, we are short a LONG TERM 1C and a long term top 6 winger, as I keep banging that drum.

So let's go get those things instead of renting.

finding a 1c isnt as easy as you seem to think.

 

[Tob]

Winning the cup is just mostly luck and try until you win. You guys are overthinking it.

 

[bleedblue94]

Call it what you want, actively tanking or just sucking. They were bad until they had enough talent to win. It didn't infect the team or make them losers.

umm, but it did. pitt was a mess and so was chicago. people remember the cup wins but dont remember what came before. you trying to skip over that shows you dont really have an appreciation for where those franchises were prior to being good. it took a lot to pull them out of it...

again you skip over the fact one team got a top 5 player all time and the other got a top 2 or 3 american player of all time. those players are exceptionally rare, that is why they are the best of the best. edmonton has two of the best players of the last decade and they cant get out of their own way. I dont mean this meanly, but were you a fan during the true dark years of the late 90s and early 2000s? Did you actually experience the struggle of this franchise trying to rebuild itself and find a mix that worked? any franchise that has gone through that and knows how hard it is o get out of it isnt looking to intentionally go back that far, that is a huge reason that when nyr stripped things down a few years ago they turned around and invested into elite players to keep the franchise pointing up.

2005-06 to 2008-09 the Kings finished 4th or 5th in their division each year. That's a 4 year stretch of being terrible (and it followed 2 additional years of also missing the playoffs but being 3rd in their division, but still, 6 straight years of missing the playoffs).

did they tank?

no...

From there, they went playoffs, playoffs, win Cup, playoffs, win Cup.



I'm not talking about what the Kings are doing now, I'm talking about what the Kings did in their lead up to 2 Cups.

did they tank, no...

But again keep in mind while I advocated trading away pieces like Kreider and Buch way earlier, I understand this team is now too good to miss the playoffs no matter what we do. We have ensured that simply by having Zibanejad, Panarin, Fox and Shesterkin. We are too good and there is no tanking.

But I'm also not going to sell the future for the present when I simply do not believe this team can win a Cup this year.

 

[bleedblue94]

At the end of the day it's the Knights who are under the gun to make something happen in order to get all of their big guys in the lineup and be cap compliant. Dadonov has a modified trade clause and will be harder to move whereas Smith has no trade protection whatsoever. Smith's UFA status I believe also inures to a trade, since they won't be able to afford him after this season. I don't think it's an either or situation with those two it's most likely both of them, as clearing both their salaries gives them exactly 10 million in cap space. The Rangers are also a team that has a ton of deadline space so could fit his full ticket in with no retention necessary. This is the bed that the Knights have made for themselves. One way or another they are going to be removing something important from their lineup in order to get Eichel in there.

Edit: I just checked, the Knights actually have to remove over $15 million from their lineup in order to get Eichel and Alec Martinez in there. They got some real tough decisions looming.

I also think he's at the top of the Rangers wish list (other than a guy like Hertl) because of his familiarity with Gallant and the team's current needs.

You're also assuming everyone will be there at once playing PRIOR to the playoffs, I am extremely skeptical of that.