Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXII

[Alluckks]

They aren't going to trade Pod. If they are rebuidling that's not a player you part from.

Yeah I know, I'm just bullshitting around

But it is much more realistic than their talks of Laf or Kakko+ coming back for JT Miller lmao

 

[Alexis Lafailure]

Such short memories. This is the J.T. Miller who Ron Duguay called out on MSG for not standing up for himself allowing a Montreal Canadian player chase him around the ice at the end of a game. The same J.T. Miller who Gorton couldn’t wait to trade away at the deadline. It not a stretch to believe that Gorton had a read from either his coaching staff or teammates or both that this guy is not who you want on your team.
Let some other teams overpay for him. Let’s not force a deal rather wait to see what’s available between now and March 21st.

Gorton got shitcanned for a reason. Miller is a good player who exploded once he left this clown show that consistently fails to find great players at the most coveted position.

 

[Boris Zubov]

The hot takes in this thread make it very clear who stays up late to watch west coast hockey & others who are basing their opinions on 2017 JT Miller & made up Funyon stories.

Miller is a giant upgrade over Ryan Strome plus he also has a team friendly deal for next season. And anyone thinking that Miller is a product of Petterson hasn't watched Petterson play lately. Plus, Petterson is on a line with Garland while Miller has been playing regularly with Boeser . They switch out their other wingers often, but Miller & Boeser, and Petterson & Garland haven't been split up in months with Miller playing C way more than LW. In fact, he's in the top 25-30 in the league for face off wins.

 

[jay from jersey]

I like JT Miller. And I have since we drafted him. I think we all know including him in the McD trade was a mistake.
Having said that, if he’s not traded twice he probably doesn’t become the player he is now.
He had real problems in NY being/ becoming a pro.
I’m happy he’s turned himself into a good top 6 player.
Having said all that, homecomings usually don’t go well for us.... see JD..
I’d rather go after Hertl because the cost will be less to acquire.
If Hertl plays very well here, and NYR wants to resign him, there are ways of getting creative in the offseason...
But we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it

 

[smoneil]

I still don't get it. Why are we going all in by trading a huge haul for another 1c again? This team isn't going to get close to the SCF. Up and down the roster, they just have no playoff experience. Those that do, it was YEARS ago. These kids are going to get a massive wake up call when they go into their first playoffs. And that's a good thing. They need that experience so that they can better prepare for it next year and the year after. If you look at most Cup winners, they usually follow a pattern--teeth kicked in, then they win a round or two, then they make a deep run or two, and finally they are favorites for the Cup. We're at least another season or two from having the kind of team that can seriously threaten for the Cup. Hell, half of our kids haven't even fully figured out how to play at the regular season level yet. Wasting assets now on a 1st line C we won't even be able to re-sign just seems so foolish.

 

[BBKers]

The Rangers, with their coming cap crunch ( mostly therefore I do not think Ryan Strome is a viable option moving fwd regardless) need a younger, cost controlled 2C with a spirited two way game. They certainly have pieces to get one. Their return for Kravtsov is going to a big part of this, do not see him returning to NYC under almost any circumstance. Dealt along with a surplus D. And a prospect/pick. Maybe Chytil too, but he might instead have a NYR future as a winger on a reasonable contract that can fill in for injuries as a C. Anyways, I see this most likely as an off-season move.

They will also definitely load up to get more rental assets at the TDL (consider that they currently have $31,393,185 in cap space to spend at the deadline, and NO, the bonus cushion will not be realized) to dip their feet this year as well. They cannot help themselves, hopefully they do not do too many dumb short term mistakes selling off good assets for flashy named mayfly rentals. One, or maybe two, I might swallow. Want some June hockey though, but not at the cost of another decade of Drury dreariness and excuses galore. Our Little League Hero, with Darth Slather and snowball Jim each perched on a shoulder, is going to provide us all for a wild ride in the not so distant future. For sure. Watch and see…

Hopefully they do not have a mediocre 2nd half while the Fishstix go on a tear, it could actually happen… nah ?? Yea

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The hot takes in this thread make it very clear who stays up late to watch west coast hockey & others who are basing their opinions on 2017 JT Miller & made up Funyon stories.

Miller is a giant upgrade over Ryan Strome plus he also has a team friendly deal for next season. And anyone thinking that Miller is a product of Petterson hasn't watched Petterson play lately. Plus, Petterson is on a line with Garland while Miller has been playing regularly with Boeser . They switch out their other wingers often, but Miller & Boeser, and Petterson & Garland haven't been split up in months with Miller playing C way more than LW. In fact, he's in the top 25-30 in the league for face off wins.

Thats quite the hot take

 

[SA16]

I still don't get it. Why are we going all in by trading a huge haul for another 1c again? This team isn't going to get close to the SCF. Up and down the roster, they just have no playoff experience. Those that do, it was YEARS ago. These kids are going to get a massive wake up call when they go into their first playoffs. And that's a good thing. They need that experience so that they can better prepare for it next year and the year after. If you look at most Cup winners, they usually follow a pattern--teeth kicked in, then they win a round or two, then they make a deep run or two, and finally they are favorites for the Cup. We're at least another season or two from having the kind of team that can seriously threaten for the Cup. Hell, half of our kids haven't even fully figured out how to play at the regular season level yet. Wasting assets now on a 1st line C we won't even be able to re-sign just seems so foolish.

Well it certainly won't get close with a defeatist attitude like that. They have essentially infinite cap space at the deadline. They can upgrade the roster more than almost any other team. They have a cap crunch upcoming soon. Their first round pick is likely going to be in the 20s. Why would you possibly not try and improve the roster as much as possible for this season? This is the same argument again and again. "We're not good enough so why bother even trying?" Whoever we draft with this years 1st/2nd/3rd round picks, if we keep them, will have zero significant impact on the teams playoff runs with the current group of Panarin,Kreider,Zibanejad on the team and at their top levels.

The reason they follow that pattern isn't because it's necessary to learn to win. It's because it is far more likely to lose than win when you have 16 teams in the playoffs. Experienced teams lose early too but you don't hear of it because it doesn't fit the narrative. The Penguins know how to win. Crosby/Malkin/Letang etc. They haven't made it out of the first round the last 3 years.

 

[haohmaru]

Well it certainly won't get close with a defeatist attitude like that. They have essentially infinite cap space at the deadline. They can upgrade the roster more than almost any other team. They have a cap crunch upcoming soon. Their first round pick is likely going to be in the 20s. Why would you possibly not try and improve the roster as much as possible for this season? This is the same argument again and again. "We're not good enough so why bother even trying?" Whoever we draft with this years 1st/2nd/3rd round picks, if we keep them, will have zero significant impact on the teams playoff runs with the current group of Panarin,Kreider,Zibanejad on the team and at their top levels.

The reason they follow that pattern isn't because it's necessary to learn to win. It's because it is far more likely to lose than win when you have 16 teams in the playoffs. Experienced teams lose early too but you don't hear of it because it doesn't fit the narrative. The Penguins know how to win. Crosby/Malkin/Letang etc. They haven't made it out of the first round the last 3 years.

I'm not sure how defeatist it is - I mean, do I think this team is capable of winning a Cup this year? Probably not. They have next to no playoff experience together as a group. I wouldn't be opposed to deadline acquisitions that don't cost a whole lot but I'm (if I'm the Rangers) not going all in trading a 1st and "A" prospects for a short term upgrade. Had this team won a round or two last year I'd think differently but, at this point, those assets should be used for longer term additions to the team.

 

[Vitto79]

Something like Miller for a 1st and Jones could happen
I don’t want it to but it could

rather not move Lundkvist or Schneider

 

[Kovalev27]

Actually, Miller's production rate his last two seasons with the Rangers was very close to what he's done in Vancouver. The difference is minutes (he gets 4+ more minutes per game with Vancouver). The issue with Miller wasn't really his play--it was his attitude and his disappearing act in the playoffs. He seems to have fixed the latter. Seeing as how he's on the trade block for the 3rd time with the 3rd team despite being a very productive center in his prime? Yeah, I'm going to guess there are still some issues with the attitude.

yah I’m not talking about his point production I’m talking about growing into a complete player on and off the ice. He’s grown up. He’s always been able to score

 

[Fitzy]

Wakes up to five pages of discussion about JT Miller

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Put me as an absolute yes for Miller if they can get him with 50% salary retained. He’s a perfect fit. Plays wing plays center big strong. He’s a complete player now. Far from the kid he was when first here.

hertl and Miller are the two guys I’ve been most interested in. Get me one

If Miller can avoid slipping back into the behaviour that got him traded twice in 16 months, he can be a huge asset for this team and an easy yes from me.

I don't think the return will be that exciting for Canucks fans though.

 

[DialUp]

Gorton got shitcanned for a reason. Miller is a good player who exploded once he left this clown show that consistently fails to find great players at the most coveted position.

Lol nice name. Whose burner is this?

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Lol nice name. Whose burner is this?

Good catch.

 

[Anthony5967]

The thing is, Drury doesn't have to chase the star, not yet anyway. He can easily scout, scout, scout like Florida does and find the right guys to bring in for the right price that do what the NYR need them do. Florida apparently loved Verhaeghe because he was a zone entry King. Rangers should be looking at numbers like that and eyeballing upgrades. Reilly Smith is a CF% beast. Bring him in to play with a guy like Kreider-Z or Panarin-Strome. NYR need to be looking at stuff like that. Not selling off Lundkvist, Jones, Othmann for a guy they won't be able to keep long-term. If we were in Florida's situation, absolutely. We are not there yet, but hell, we are getting there.

 

[SA16]

I'm not sure how defeatist it is - I mean, do I think this team is capable of winning a Cup this year? Probably not. They have next to no playoff experience together as a group. I wouldn't be opposed to deadline acquisitions that don't cost a whole lot but I'm (if I'm the Rangers) not going all in trading a 1st and "A" prospects for a short term upgrade. Had this team won a round or two last year I'd think differently but, at this point, those assets should be used for longer term additions to the team.

If you think the team can't win then why bother trying is a pretty defeatist attitude to me. I definitely think they can win. Likely? No. But it's not likely for anyone. Even FLA, TB, or COL. They currently have a great PP and a great PK. Didn't we constantly have issues during our good playoff years where we were let down by the PP being 2 for 40 and such? This is totally different. We're already among the best there and still have great goaltending. That's three key areas that we are set at and well above average. We have the ability to add several players to the roster to fix 5v5 issues and I see no reason why we shouldn't go ahead and do so.

 

[AWall THE CLAW]

If the Rangers trade a first for rental JT Miller we are f***ing doomed.

All you talk about is how we are doomed anyway because they don’t score fifty goals every night, so what’s the difference?

 

[Fitzy]

Peoples vague definitions of what constitutes a Stanley cup contender never get us anywhere on here.


Seems to me with Miller the questions are fit, price, and style. He’s got a lot of the same holes to his game as Strome. RGY has noted he’s better in the face off circle but that’s a relatively small factor.

Can’t expect him to come here and put up a PPG if he’s gonna be out there on the third line and second PP unit either, no matter how optimistic we are. Look at Selanne and Kariya or Robataille when they played on the third line for super clubs.

 

[bleedblue94]

We did tank though. If we hadn't had Lundqvist and found money in Georgiev and Strome, we would've slotted quite a bit higher than where we won the lottery from.

We didn't create a roster hoping to be the worst team in the NHL, but we sold off everything that didn't have term behind it for a year and a half, and in the midst of that we played a bunch of kids who were not really even NHL players yet throughout (Pionk, Lemieux, Chytil, Howden, Hajek).

We shifted course really quickly and threw a ton of money around signing Panarin and Trouba, re-signing Kreider. But icing one of the youngest rosters in the league for two years when the players who were bringing that average age down so much were really mediocre to bad players for the most part is what tanking teams do. That's why so many were/have been confused as to whether this team has really been rebuilding or just 'reloading' and as bad as tanking might seem historically, it's certainly been more effective than the latter.

See I think there is a distinct difference between selling off dead weight and outright tanking. We sold dead weight and made moves to change the roster and improve the team. Teams that are tanking dont go out and sign a player like panarin or trade for a trouba. So I completely disagree with your post.

 

[NYR Viper]

It's fairly clear, at least to me, that Drury believed this organization needed much more of a swagger to itself than what has been present in the past. Adding Goodrow, Blais, Hunt and Reaves has begun that process. Adding Miller who has a similar swagger would make sense. The team's cap crunch will be next year so getting a player who is signed at a reasonable deal for next year makes sense. I like his flexibility in terms of center or wing. I like his physicality as well.

Count me in the minority but I still think the team and Strome come to a mutual agreement on a long term deal that keeps the cap hit down.

 

[bleedblue94]

No?



Well then you aren't interpreting the categories correctly and I'd suggest reading the full article both from 2021 and the 2020 version, where it both explains in more detail and also says you can have more one place and less another place, but this is in general what most Cup winners have.

And in that vain then we arent that far off from the description if that is the case, just like every other team we need to make some moves to shore up a couple things but we are closer to that recipe than a lot of other teams...

 

[Mac n Gs]

I mean, if you step back and forget Miller during his time here, he’s kind of the perfect target for this team. He’s still got one year left on his deal, can slot anywhere in the lineup this year, and easily slots in at 2C next year. He’d also prevent them from giving a long-term deal to Strome and buy them another year for Chytil to figure it out (assuming he isn’t moved). I think that’s where the most value would be in this deal.

I liked Miller during his time here, even though he got incredibly frustrating at the end. If the team is going to make a big move -whether you agree with it or not - getting someone in the same mold as JT Miller does make the most sense. I’m just not sure who else is out there that also has some term and plays C that’s realistically available for trade.

 

[bleedblue94]

It absolutely is a strategy to be good and just because Edmonton and Buffalo have f***ed it up doesn't mean it's not effective or that it infects your locker room or organization. Look at Chicago, look at LA, look at Pittsburgh.



You couldn't be more wrong if you want to win a Cup. Just about every winner goes through a down period where they pick high and get sufficient elite talent. Then once they have enough they ramp up and win Cups.

We are short at least one top center for the future. I'd like a second as well.

If you are insinuating "tanking" is playing to lose on purpose, that is different than liquidating non-long term assets for long term assets. The former might be destructive, the latter is smart roster management.

Pitt tanked for one period and lucked out bc they landed a top 5 player in nhl history. If you take crosby off that roster that org prob flounders around worse than 19 year old fleury looking for rebounds. Crosby changes everything, top 5 player all time, at worst, absolute worst top 7.

Chicago hit on two picks after being mediocre for almost a decade, they didnt really actively tank, they were just a poorly run team for a long time.

When did the kings outright just tank it out? They had some bad teams prior to the cup runs but that wasnt for tanking. They did essentially the same thing the rangers did (if not less by keeping kopitar and doughty) recently. Would you advocate for that team to sell off it's players currently in order to reload or are they someone you want to see keep going to a compete, keep in mind their point percentage is .577, the NYR point percentage is .692...

 

[eco's bones]

1. I kind of look at it this way—Is Miller an upgrade on Strome ? because if the Rangers trade for Miller there will absolutely be no cap space left for Strome and he will have to go if not before the deadline then over the summer. That question is not simply who is the better player because I think Miller has the edge as the overall player but Strome’s chemistry with Panarin and all the locker room shit about Miller whether it’s real or not would need to be factored in……and lastly what it would cost us in trade terms. I’m kind of skeptical that JT returning to the Rangers is going to happen at this time.

Going into next year I’m also not sure Strome will return.