Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXII

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Point is definitely an elite first line center.
He is a first line center but I dont think he is among the best players in the world.

In a 32 team league I look at 32 (at most but more realistically 16) as the cutoff for the best players in the world in this context.

He has one monster regular season in his career and has been a better playoff player than regular season player, but you would never know that about him if his teams didnt even get to the playoffs like some people here suggest doing with our own franchise.
 
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Thank you. Watched Middleton play a few times. Inexpensive player but seemed like he was a factor. Solid physical player.
 
Choking the game 5v5 and using goaltending and a superhot PP to win is the exact recipe for success Tampa used to win the Cup.
Of course I’m satisfied with the stout D and effective special teams play.
My concern is with the flimsy and predictable even strength attack. Hoping to see improvement there after the time off.
 
Tanking to lose is not a strategy to be good, it creates a garbage mind frame and standard in an organization. Look at the teams that have done it, it isn't even 50/50 that it pays off, and the majority of the teams that have actively tanked have struggled to find any success once they are out of their tank. It is a horrible strategy.

We did tank though. If we hadn't had Lundqvist and found money in Georgiev and Strome, we would've slotted quite a bit higher than where we won the lottery from.

We didn't create a roster hoping to be the worst team in the NHL, but we sold off everything that didn't have term behind it for a year and a half, and in the midst of that we played a bunch of kids who were not really even NHL players yet throughout (Pionk, Lemieux, Chytil, Howden, Hajek).

We shifted course really quickly and threw a ton of money around signing Panarin and Trouba, re-signing Kreider. But icing one of the youngest rosters in the league for two years when the players who were bringing that average age down so much were really mediocre to bad players for the most part is what tanking teams do. That's why so many were/have been confused as to whether this team has really been rebuilding or just 'reloading' and as bad as tanking might seem historically, it's certainly been more effective than the latter.
 
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So I guess everyone except Tampa should pack it up for the season?

No?

I don't know of any other team that checks off all these boxes, and you can pretty easily argue that Tampa Bay did not have an "Elite first-line center that’s among the very best players in the world" for either of their victories.

Well then you aren't interpreting the categories correctly and I'd suggest reading the full article both from 2021 and the 2020 version, where it both explains in more detail and also says you can have more one place and less another place, but this is in general what most Cup winners have.
 
Tanking to lose is not a strategy to be good, it creates a garbage mind frame and standard in an organization.

It absolutely is a strategy to be good and just because Edmonton and Buffalo have f***ed it up doesn't mean it's not effective or that it infects your locker room or organization. Look at Chicago, look at LA, look at Pittsburgh.

Look at the teams that have done it, it isn't even 50/50 that it pays off, and the majority of the teams that have actively tanked have struggled to find any success once they are out of their tank. It is a horrible strategy.

You couldn't be more wrong if you want to win a Cup. Just about every winner goes through a down period where they pick high and get sufficient elite talent. Then once they have enough they ramp up and win Cups.

We are short at least one top center for the future. I'd like a second as well.

If you are insinuating "tanking" is playing to lose on purpose, that is different than liquidating non-long term assets for long term assets. The former might be destructive, the latter is smart roster management.
 
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He is a first line center but I dont think he is among the best players in the world.

In a 32 team league I look at 32 (at most but more realistically 16) as the cutoff for the best players in the world in this context.

He has one monster regular season in his career and has been a better playoff player than regular season player, but you would never know that about him if his teams didnt even get to the playoffs like some people here suggest doing with our own franchise.

This is what the article said about Tampa FWIW, in regards to the checklist:

The Lightning have an elite first-line center in Brayden Point, an elite winger on his right in Nikita Kucherov and another elite winger in Steven Stamkos on Line 2. Every other forward at least fits into the range of the average contender for their position, with many leaning toward the higher end of the spectrum.

Tampa Bay does have that elite number one defender in Victor Hedman, but his game slipped as he played through injury late in the season. Before that, he was a three-win defenseman; and for their Cup run last year, he was closer to 4.5, showing how he can elevate his game when it matters most (when his body allows it).

Ryan McDonagh and Mikhail Sergachev lead their respective pairs on the left below Hedman. Two righties, on the other hand, fall short relative to these guidelines in Jan Rutta and David Savard. Savard, after missing Game 1, is day-to-day, and his replacement, Luke Schenn, rates even worse (-0.49).

The Lightning’s lineup is so strong, though, that those “weak links” aren’t really a problem. Plus, they have one of the league’s best in net with Andrei Vasilevskiy.

--------------

This is what their chart looks like, then our most recent, just as an example, players and numbers have changed since then.

Chart-4.png




Chart-3-1.png
 
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I dont believe they should resign him, I've said all along that it was a bad trade because he's injury prone, this one wasn't a recurring one but a rotten play, but i was talking patience for this season if he were to come back it would be like getting a deadline deal for free.
Not even, man, he's a guy who has loose joints or bad luck or whatever. he's getting league min. next year anywhere and has no actual value.I wasn't even considering that, which sucked.
 
We did tank though. If we hadn't had Lundqvist and found money in Georgiev and Strome, we would've slotted quite a bit higher than where we won the lottery from.

We didn't create a roster hoping to be the worst team in the NHL, but we sold off everything that didn't have term behind it for a year and a half, and in the midst of that we played a bunch of kids who were not really even NHL players yet throughout (Pionk, Lemieux, Chytil, Howden, Hajek).

We shifted course really quickly and threw a ton of money around signing Panarin and Trouba, re-signing Kreider. But icing one of the youngest rosters in the league for two years when the players who were bringing that average age down so much were really mediocre to bad players for the most part is what tanking teams do. That's why so many were/have been confused as to whether this team has really been rebuilding or just 'reloading' and as bad as tanking might seem historically, it's certainly been more effective than the latter.

Its called tanking and then rebuilding with a winning culture for the kids. These team needed to rebuild but not allow the kids to be brought along in a losing culture like Edmonton with Mcdavid. I personally think this is the right way to rebuild. Sell youre older assets, move out what you can in young players, recoup picks.. then after a year or so try to sign good players and try to build a winning culture.
 
It absolutely is a strategy to be good and just because Edmonton and Buffalo have f***ed it up doesn't mean it's not effective or that it infects your locker room or organization. Look at Chicago, look at LA, look at Pittsburgh.



You couldn't be more wrong if you want to win a Cup. Just about every winner goes through a down period where they pick high and get sufficient elite talent. Then once they have enough they ramp up and win Cups.

We are short at least one top center for the future. I'd like a second as well.

If you are insinuating "tanking" is playing to lose on purpose, that is different than liquidating non-long term assets for long term assets. The former might be destructive, the latter is smart roster management.

For every chicago and pittsburgh there is an edmonton and buffalo. But if you notice, pittsburgh cant really be counted since they were gifted 4 picks straight inside the top 5 to rebuild their team. Then they went out and got talent to surround them with. Chicago did the same by getting marion hossa and others.. The same as it was in Detriot with Federov and co.

You cant continue to perpetually rebuild and be at the bottom of the standings every year. It has a drastic effect on the team and its culture. You have to start to surround your young talent with the right vets so that they can learn and so on.

I agree the rangers screwed up by not drafting centers all these years. But there is still hope on the front that we have a ton of talented players in our system and a massive glut at defense that im sure will end up being a Kravy, Jones, 1st and something else at the draft for that young talented center. Larkin would be perfect. Only 25 and is already a top 25 center in the league. Alot of things can happen from now until the draft which is where i believe we will see out trade for our 2nd line/3rd line center who can be the future #1.

Lets take a breath and enjoy the fact that we are a top team in the standings and that we do have alot of young talented players on our team. our average age is 25 and once players like schnieder and so on start to catch on that average will only go down.

All in all we all hope for the best for the Rangers as we all Love our blueshirts.
 
For every chicago and pittsburgh there is an edmonton and buffalo. But if you notice, pittsburgh cant really be counted since they were gifted 4 picks straight inside the top 5 to rebuild their team. Then they went out and got talent to surround them with. Chicago did the same by getting marion hossa and others.. The same as it was in Detriot with Federov and co.

You cant continue to perpetually rebuild and be at the bottom of the standings every year. It has a drastic effect on the team and its culture. You have to start to surround your young talent with the right vets so that they can learn and so on.

I agree the rangers screwed up by not drafting centers all these years. But there is still hope on the front that we have a ton of talented players in our system and a massive glut at defense that im sure will end up being a Kravy, Jones, 1st and something else at the draft for that young talented center. Larkin would be perfect. Only 25 and is already a top 25 center in the league. Alot of things can happen from now until the draft which is where i believe we will see out trade for our 2nd line/3rd line center who can be the future #1.

Lets take a breath and enjoy the fact that we are a top team in the standings and that we do have alot of young talented players on our team. our average age is 25 and once players like schnieder and so on start to catch on that average will only go down.

All in all we all hope for the best for the Rangers as we all Love our blueshirts.

I mean, I can't say I disagree but there's too much logic and tempered positivity in this post. Not sure if you heard but the only thing that's allowed nowadays are posts that are dooming, gaslighting, truth twisting, stat mishandling and obfuscating.

That part at the end where you did that thing that introduced what shall not be named (positivity) is like an offense. Be careful my friend.
 
Do you believe we are close to Florida, Tampa, Vegas, Carolina?

It's odd that the people who seem to be against "going all in" actually reference the Rangers chances relative to these teams. Florida, Tampa, Vegas, and Carolina have been going all in for the last three or for years while the rangers have been sellers...in some cases to these actual teams.

If you want the rangers to compete with the top of the league they will have to go just as all in as the top of the league. And the rangers will and should do this.
 
It's odd that the people who seem to be against "going all in" actually reference the Rangers chances relative to these teams. Florida, Tampa, Vegas, and Carolina have been going all in for the last three or for years while the rangers have been sellers...in some cases to these actual teams.

If you want the rangers to compete with the top of the league they will have to go just as all in as the top of the league. And the rangers will and should do this.

Not the right time for us though, those teams never made it until their kids were good..go all in when the kids are ready, save your picks and prospects for that time and along the way you may draft someone who helps down the road. We have made enough moves imo for now, we've added Goodrow, Reaves, Blais(if he's back) and Nemeth(gross) lol
 
I'm not so sure TB will have the stones to go through another 4 rounds of playoffs....I just don't see the hunger being there for that 3rd Cup after having two already. It's a big price to pay . Would not shock me if they bow out early . If we have Blais back and grab another forward on the cheap and another experienced Dman...young and cocky and a great goalie...it's happened before and a young upstart club pulled it off...93 Habs for one...gotta get out of the first round quick and healthy and having home ice would help .
 



If we trade Kravtsov for JT f***in Miller.... I swear
I did something to Drury in a past life or something and his entire existence is dedicated to making me miserable.

Hahaha.

This is one thing we agree on to a degree and that is I don’t think I can come around to JT Miller. He was so incredibly frustrating during his time here. He was a more physical Ryan Strome. He has improved and progressed since leaving so maybe it would be different this time around, not playing for AV.

I am uncertain about this.
 
Can we see Laf, Barron, Goodrow for a stretch ?
Sounds good to me

Kreider-Zib-Kakko (needs to get himself going no matter what line he's on)
Panarin-Strome-Chytil (kid has been moving and using his speed last 2 games)
Laf- Barron- Goodrow (Goodrow playing at .5ppg pace and that will continue if he plays top 9 time)
Hunt-Rooney-Reaves (we finally get to see if this 4th line can stick. Sorry Hunt does not belong in top 9)

We probably see the above lineup but probably GG goes with Gauthier over Barron.

That is a decent forward group and obviously GG has some time to mix and match if he feels the top 9 needs to be moved around a bit.
 
Hahaha.

This is one thing we agree on to a degree and that is I don’t think I can come around to JT Miller. He was so incredibly frustrating during his time here. He was a more physical Ryan Strome. He has improved and progressed since leaving so maybe it would be different this time around, not playing for AV.

I am uncertain about this.
The games Vancouver games i've watched (about 6-8 games) he has looked pretty good and dangerous including the game against us where he basically got his team back in the game and won it in Overtime if I remember correctly.
I am not convinced about him coming here either. I would pass unless Canucks are willing to trade him for very little which I imagine would not be the case.
 
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I'm not so sure TB will have the stones to go through another 4 rounds of playoffs....I just don't see the hunger being there for that 3rd Cup after having two already. It's a big price to pay . Would not shock me if they bow out early . If we have Blais back and grab another forward on the cheap and another experienced Dman...young and cocky and a great goalie...it's happened before and a young upstart club pulled it off...93 Habs for one...gotta get out of the first round quick and healthy and having home ice would help .
Blais is done for the year.
 
Hahaha.

This is one thing we agree on to a degree and that is I don’t think I can come around to JT Miller. He was so incredibly frustrating during his time here. He was a more physical Ryan Strome. He has improved and progressed since leaving so maybe it would be different this time around, not playing for AV.

I am uncertain about this.
Put me in the camp of No to Miller.

Seravelli has been good but nobody knows what’s happening inside the Rangers front office these days. I take shit like this with a huge grain of you know what.
 
Put me in the camp of No to Miller.

Seravelli has been good but nobody knows what’s happening inside the Rangers front office these days. I take shit like this with a huge grain of you know what.
That’s the thing that has me believing this, even with how tight lipped the organization has been
 
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