Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXII

[Shesterkybomb]

There is no team without holes this year.

Florida, Carolina, Vegas, Tampa.....to name a few

 

[mas0764]

I'm asking you, would you trade panarin in your scenario?

Not as we sit here today.

Some of the most important things are things we already failed to do.

Starting here we have no Buch or expiring Kreider to trade for hauls. But I'm not gonna compound on mistakes by doubling down and sending out prime assets for rentals or 30 year olds.

 

[cheech70]

Dave was drifting a bit

 

[CLW]

We may not be TB, but given our roster makeup it isnt the worst model to run with, again simply based on what we have strength/weakness wise.

We are also ~40 games into a new coach era with new lines. 5v5 should improve over time (theoretically).

 

[CLW]

Florida, Carolina, Vegas, Tampa.....to name a few

They have no holes?

 

[bleedblue94]

That approached worked for Tampa because they were a strong team with no holes in it. Thats not us

I think they still had holes but they had players that were so good at their roles that it helped hide their holes. I mean TB has not always had the best defense to roll with, but their good players are great and hide deficiencies for others. And then you have players like Point who are better playoff players than reg season.

Can Fox and Trouba play at the level of Hedman and McDonough? with others filling around them? Savard, Sustr, Schenn, Bogosian were not world beaters, they just filled the wholes to eat minutes when the two big boys weren't able to do it.

Can Igor be our Vaz through a playoff run?

Can Mika be our Stammer?

Can Panarin be our Kucherov?

Who is our version of Point, it's not Strome so who is that player?

Our 4th line seems like they COULD be a grind line on par with what the bolts had although they cannot play the same minutes or they will be exposed, so we need a functioning third line that isnt a liability (ENTER HORVAT)

You need a team to get through the reg season, but you need HORSES to get you through the playoffs, you ride your best and you need them to be at their best. The parallel isn't as far off once you really look at it. They obviously need to make moves to fill holes still but the big pieces are there - ish

 

[I Eat Crow]

Florida, Carolina, Vegas, Tampa.....to name a few

Florida: No history of recent playoff success. Goaltending can still be suspect.

Tampa: Lost a ton of depth. Bottom six and bottom defensive pair can be very easily over matched. As of now a very top heavy team.

Vegas: Probably the most balanced of this group. Is Lehner the real deal when it matters?

Carolina: Regular season paper tiger, IMO. They were a better team last year and two years ago than they are now. Goaltending still unreliable. Too many former Rangers.

 

[bleedblue94]

Not as we sit here today.

Some of the most important things are things we already failed to do.

Starting here we have no Buch or expiring Kreider to trade for hauls. But I'm not gonna compound on mistakes by doubling down and sending out prime assets for rentals or 30 year olds.

staying on topic, if you are not trading panarin than any idea to rebuild or half rebuild again is simply idiotic. Panarin accounts for 14ish% of our cap and is 31 near the start of next season. He has 2-3 elite seasons left in him. IF you are just going to waste those seasons half rebuild or retool or whatever you want to call it than you need to trade him. He is NOT getting traded during that period so this conversation is pointless. What franchise is going to followup a letter indicating a rebuild period by trading a super star in their prime to enter another rebuild. We aren't buffalo...

 

[bleedblue94]

We are also ~40 games into a new coach era with new lines. 5v5 should improve over time (theoretically).

5v5 will improve dramatically once this team has a functional 3c that actually contributes to improve the weaknesses this team has (cough Horvat).

 

[mas0764]

I think they still had holes but they had players that were so good at their roles that it helped hide their holes. I mean TB has not always had the best defense to role with, but their good players are great and hide deficiencies for others.

Can Fox and Trouba play at the level of Hedman and McDonough? with others filling around them? Savard, Sustr, Schenn, Bogosian were not world beaters, they just filled the wholes to eat minutes when the two big boys weren't able to do it.

Can Igor be our Vaz through a playoff run?

Can Mika be our Stammer?

Can Panarin be our Kucherov?

Who is our version of Point, it's not Strome so who is that player?

Our 4th line seems like they COULD be a grind line on par with what the bolts had although they cannot play the same minutes or they will be exposed, so we need a functioning third line that isnt a liability (ENTER HORVAT)

You need a team to get through the reg season, but you need HORSES to get you through the playoffs, you ride your best and you need them to be at their best. The parallel isn't as far off once you really look at it. They obviously need to make moves to fill holes still but the big pieces are there - ish

Stanley Cup contender checklist: Which of the NHL's final eight teams looks the most like past champions?

Eight teams are left to contend for the Stanley Cup, but which one looks most like a champion?

Thanks to The Athletic’s Dom Luszczyszyn, there’s a blueprint to compare this season’s contenders to. Last year, Luszczyszyn created a “Cup Checklist” using the average Game Score Value Added by position for the past decade’s champions. GSVA is based on game score and uses both traditional boxscore statistics and advanced-analytical metrics to come up with one number to measure a player’s value in terms of wins added.

This won’t necessarily pinpoint who has the best odds to win this year — it doesn’t detail playing style or how these teams will match up against their opponents in later rounds. And it’s particularly tricky to measure uncertainty in a sport that’s played on a slippery sheet of ice at high speeds. Luck and chaos are inevitable in hockey.

It will, however, help break down which teams have the key components in the blueprint for a Stanley Cup-winning roster.

According to Luszczyszyn, the contender checklist includes:

• Elite first-line center that’s among the very best players in the world.
• Elite first-line winger to support the elite centre.
• Two other top-line wingers on each of the top two lines.
• Top-line centre to play behind the elite center.
• Two more top-six forwards for depth in the middle six.
• Elite No. 1 defenseman.
• A second No. 1 defenseman to play behind him.
• A top-pairing defenseman to help anchor a strong second pair with the No. 2.
• Another top-pairing caliber defender to crush soft minutes on the third pair.
• A top-10 caliber starting goaltender.

In a copycat league like the NHL, these roster staples from champions over the years likely inspired moves from some of the current playoff teams, but it’s important to note that most champions don’t check off every box, and strengths in certain areas can make up for weaknesses in others. Rather than just noting one average value for each position, there’s a range of one standard deviation on each side.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

They have no holes?

Those are the best in the league imo, we aren't close to them yet.

 

[Kovalev27]

Florida, Carolina, Vegas, Tampa.....to name a few

Absolutely have holes my friend

Carolina runs 4 NYR cast offs on their blueline half the time. And Freddy Andersen doesn’t scare anyone

Fla defense is suspect. We’ve gotten to them and their goaltender can be a headcase come playoff time.

Tampa is not nearly as deep. That third line so important for them during the championships is completely gone.

Vegas doesn’t score much Eichel is supposed to fix that though. But you don’t face them till the Final if anything.

 

[mas0764]

staying on topic, if you are not trading panarin than any idea to rebuild or half rebuild again is simply idiotic. Panarin accounts for 14ish% of our cap and is 31 near the start of next season. He has 2-3 elite seasons left in him. IF you are just going to waste those seasons half rebuild or retool or whatever you want to call it than you need to trade him. He is NOT getting traded during that period so this conversation is pointless. What franchise is going to followup a letter indicating a rebuild period by trading a super star in their prime to enter another rebuild. We aren't buffalo...

We aren't Buffalo and will never be Buffalo. Panarin is elite enough to be able to make it through to the other side. Kreider and Zibanejad probably not so much.

However if they had done what I advocated we'd have another 2-3 stud forwards already in the fold and we WOULD have a free hand to move forward. Instead we wasted two seasons and are no more set up for the future now than then.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Absolutely have holes my friend

Carolina runs 4 NYR cast offs on their blueline half the time. And Freddy Andersen doesn’t scare anyone

Fla defense is suspect. We’ve gotten to them and their goaltender can be a headcase come playoff time.

Tampa is not nearly as deep. That third line so important for them during the championships is completely gone.

Vegas doesn’t score much Eichel is supposed to fix that though. But you don’t face them till the Final if anything.

Tampa filled those holes this year with a combination of kids and and Perry.

Carolina only plays our cast offs during covid issued. Skjei and Deangelo have looked good for them so by cast offs i assume you mean Smith and Keane.They have plenty of depth on d and Freddy Anderson is really good goalie. Their forward lines are dynomite.

Florida is as complete as you get.

We arent close to those teams

 

[Bruner4329]

Do you believe we are close to Florida, Tampa, Vegas, Carolina?

I can only base this on what I have seen head to head so far so outside of Vegas I would say we are closer than some think. I have seen what a superb goalie can do to carry a team and compared to those teams we stack up very favorably in that department. Vegas beat us twice once in overtime and we have held our own against the other 3. In all honesty the only team that has dominated us twice this year was Calgary. Listen I am not saying we will win the cup but we do have a punchers chance of making a run this year at getting to the finals.

 

[Savant]

As someone who has been to multiple Hurricanes this season and watch almost every Rangers game, I can say that right now the Hurricanes are better than the Rangers from what I’ve seen. Would much rather bet on the Canes. Will be at the game this week too.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I can only base this on what I have seen head to head so far so outside of Vegas I would say we are closer than some think. I have seen what a superb goalie can do to carry a team and compared to those teams we stack up very favorably in that department. Vegas beat us twice once in overtime and we have held our own against the other 3. In all honesty the only team that has dominated us twice this year was Calgary. Listen I am not saying we will win the cup but we do have a punchers chance of making a run this year at getting to the finals.

I dont see it, we're not ready yet, its way too early in this. In order for this team to be ready for a run Kakko and Lafreniere have to look like the guys we drafted and our d has to be a whole lot better.

 

[mas0764]

As someone who has been to multiple Hurricanes this season and watch almost every Rangers game, I can say that right now the Hurricanes are better than the Rangers from what I’ve seen. Would much rather bet on the Canes. Will be at the game this week too.

Me too!

 

[mas0764]

I dont see it, we're not ready yet, its way too early in this. In order for this team to be ready for a run Kakko and Lafreniere have to look like the guys we drafted and our d has to be a whole lot better.

And we need another young top center and wing either on the team or in the system ready to provide reinforcement.

 

[duhmetreE]

Patrick Nemeth and Jacob Middleton

 

[DialUp]

In all honesty the only team that has dominated us twice this year was Calgary. Listen I am not saying we will win the cup but we do have a punchers chance of making a run this year at getting to the finals.

And Colorado.

Even if you are right and we have a punchers chance, you shouldn't invest in this year's chance. Just roll with what you have for that shot.

If the Rangers manage to go on a god run and even win the cup they still won't be as good as those other teams. If those teams have holes, then what the hell do we have?

 

[CupSeeker]

Yep, Nemeth is crap. If he is still in our top 6 come playoff time, we are doomed.

 

[bleedblue94]

Stanley Cup contender checklist: Which of the NHL's final eight teams looks the most like past champions?

Eight teams are left to contend for the Stanley Cup, but which one looks most like a champion?

Thanks to The Athletic’s Dom Luszczyszyn, there’s a blueprint to compare this season’s contenders to. Last year, Luszczyszyn created a “Cup Checklist” using the average Game Score Value Added by position for the past decade’s champions. GSVA is based on game score and uses both traditional boxscore statistics and advanced-analytical metrics to come up with one number to measure a player’s value in terms of wins added.

This won’t necessarily pinpoint who has the best odds to win this year — it doesn’t detail playing style or how these teams will match up against their opponents in later rounds. And it’s particularly tricky to measure uncertainty in a sport that’s played on a slippery sheet of ice at high speeds. Luck and chaos are inevitable in hockey.

It will, however, help break down which teams have the key components in the blueprint for a Stanley Cup-winning roster.

According to Luszczyszyn, the contender checklist includes:

• Elite first-line center that’s among the very best players in the world.
• Elite first-line winger to support the elite centre.
• Two other top-line wingers on each of the top two lines.
• Top-line centre to play behind the elite center.
• Two more top-six forwards for depth in the middle six.
• Elite No. 1 defenseman.
• A second No. 1 defenseman to play behind him.
• A top-pairing defenseman to help anchor a strong second pair with the No. 2.
• Another top-pairing caliber defender to crush soft minutes on the third pair.
• A top-10 caliber starting goaltender.

In a copycat league like the NHL, these roster staples from champions over the years likely inspired moves from some of the current playoff teams, but it’s important to note that most champions don’t check off every box, and strengths in certain areas can make up for weaknesses in others. Rather than just noting one average value for each position, there’s a range of one standard deviation on each side.

So I guess everyone except Tampa should pack it up for the season?

I don't know of any other team that checks off all these boxes, and you can pretty easily argue that Tampa Bay did not have an "Elite first-line center that’s among the very best players in the world" for either of their victories.

 

[DanielBrassard]

So I guess everyone except Tampa should pack it up for the season?

I don't know of any other team that checks off all these boxes, and you can pretty easily argue that Tampa Bay did not have an "Elite first-line center that’s among the very best players in the world" for either of their victories.

Point is definitely an elite first line center.

 

[bleedblue94]

We aren't Buffalo and will never be Buffalo. Panarin is elite enough to be able to make it through to the other side. Kreider and Zibanejad probably not so much.

However if they had done what I advocated we'd have another 2-3 stud forwards already in the fold and we WOULD have a free hand to move forward. Instead we wasted two seasons and are no more set up for the future now than then.

Tanking to lose is not a strategy to be good, it creates a garbage mind frame and standard in an organization. Look at the teams that have done it, it isn't even 50/50 that it pays off, and the majority of the teams that have actively tanked have struggled to find any success once they are out of their tank. It is a horrible strategy.