Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXX

[Bruner4329]

The Chytil experiment has come to an end. Drury needs to try to sneak this guy in a package.

Should have done it in the offseason when his value was greater. I mean there were some on this Board who called him a stud number 2 center. If anything he has done nothing to ease any doubts that he is a viable 3 center at best.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

It floors me that we have never lead against the Coyotes.

 

[Bruner4329]

I couldn’t possibly care less about a 30 year old winger with a career high of like 25 goals.

I don’t care who will replace him. I’m not winning a Cup with that player as a centerpiece. Kreider had his chance to be a star, instead he’s basically a competent second line winger. Practically dime a dozen and like the 7th best forward on a Cup winner.

I’m keeping the player who might be a centerpiece one day.

If you think Kreider is like the 7th best forward on a Cup winner then I have a bridge to sell you. He is been by far one of our better players period this year. There are so many on this team that have been under achievers this year even though the team has been winning at a high rate. Think Zibs is playing like a number 1 center. Think FC is playing like a 3 center or were you one of the guys pushing him to move up to the 2 spot. Man with all the other issues this team has Kreider is the last one we should be lamenting about at this point.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Should have done it in the offseason when his value was greater. I mean there were some on this Board who called him a stud number 2 center. If anything he has done nothing to ease any doubts that he is a viable 3 center at best.

They tried but somehow Chytil wasn't enough for Eichel.

 

[Savant]

They tried but somehow Chytil wasn't enough for Eichel.

Buffalo also stopped answering Drury’s phone calls because the Pegulas didn’t want to send him to the Rangers

 

[mas0764]

If you think Kreider is like the 7th best forward on a Cup winner then I have a bridge to sell you. He is been by far one of our better players period this year. There are so many on this team that have been under achievers this year even though the team has been winning at a high rate. Think Zibs is playing like a number 1 center. Think FC is playing like a 3 center or were you one of the guys pushing him to move up to the 2 spot. Man with all the other issues this team has Kreider is the last one we should be lamenting about at this point.

Kreider is like the 7th best forward on a Cup winner, yes.

 

[BBKers]

Next 2 games I would roll out:

Kreider - Zib - kakko
LAF - chytil - Strome
Barron/Hunt - Goodrow - Goat
Hunt/Barron - Rooney - Reaves

 

[haohmaru]

I couldn’t possibly care less about a 30 year old winger with a career high of like 25 goals.

I don’t care who will replace him. I’m not winning a Cup with that player as a centerpiece. Kreider had his chance to be a star, instead he’s basically a competent second line winger. Practically dime a dozen and like the 7th best forward on a Cup winner.

I’m keeping the player who might be a centerpiece one day.

You're constantly doing this. "Might be". All of these players that you're winning your Cup with, Kravtsov, Kakko, LaF, etc... haven't proven much of anything at an NHL level and the guy that has, the consistent 25 goal scorer, is yesterday's trash. You need elite talent to win Cups but you also need consistent players whose playoff stats mirror their regular season stats and Kreider is that guy. You also need veteran leadership - Kreider is that guy too. At some point, you have to have guys that are 25+ on the team to win ANYTHING.

 

[Vitto79]

Next 2 games I would roll out:

Kreider - Zib - kakko
LAF - chytil - Strome
Barron/Hunt - Goodrow - Goat
Hunt/Barron - Rooney - Reaves

they never put Strome at RW. Chytil should hit the wing

I would like to see Barron but I done see them scratching Hunt

 

[mas0764]

You're constantly doing this. "Might be". All of these players that you're winning your Cup with, Kravtsov, Kakko, LaF, etc... haven't proven much of anything at an NHL level and the guy that has, the consistent 25 goal scorer, is yesterday's trash. You need elite talent to win Cups but you also need consistent players whose playoff stats mirror their regular season stats and Kreider is that guy. You also need veteran leadership - Kreider is that guy too. At some point, you have to have guys that are 25+ on the team to win ANYTHING.

I'm "constantly," doing it because that's how you win Cups and compete for a long term and become a top team - by acquiring young, elite talent. I'm not interested in becoming a team that is just "good," again like the 2012-16 Rangers but doesn't win Cups. We saw that movie already, the ending sucked. For too many people on here, they are just in a hurry to taste the second round of the playoffs again and don't care if they actually win a championship. It's like they think building a final-8 team and then having the puck bounce your way is all it takes - that's wrong (maybe it happens once every 10-15 years like with St. Louis in 2019). There are usually a much smaller group of contenders and you have to be one of those 3-5 true elite teams. Getting a roster full of non-skilled 20 goal scorers that relies on it's goaltending to carry it is not going to get you into that group of elite teams who have the real chance to win every season.

I'm betting on guys who haven't proven it because those are the guys who have a chance to actually win a Cup for us someday. If I go bust, I'll roll the dice and pick high in the draft again. It's the only way. I'm not going to get there relying on a team of 30 year old Chris Kreiders.

A player like him IS a valuable part of a Cup run, but those types of players are too good to allow you to be bad (and draft the real elite talent in the top 5-10 of a draft), but not good enough to put you over the hump. He is a SUPPORT player ultimately, he's the kind of guy that is tearing it up on a third line for an elite team feasting on softer matchups. You can acquire a Kreider or a JG Pageau or another type of aging, 20 goal scorer at just about any trade deadline for a first and a half decent prospect, once you already have enough stars.

These things that people keep insisting we cling to - role players, grit and toughness, experience - are all things that are easy to get later.

We haven't done the thing we actually need to do yet - finish getting our elite young forward talent for the long term. Two isn't enough (and we don't even know if we have two yet). We remain in desperate need of another young center who can be a 1C someday. And in the absence of Chytil's development and Kravtsov being banished, we might need two other top forwards as well. We should have top 6 talent spilling over into our bottom 6 instead of the other way around, which, right now we have far too many bottom 6 players playing on our top lines, because - shocker - we poorly managed our assets by trading a top liner for a bottom liner (and a second round pick) and running off another potential top 6 player because our GM has an ego problem and doesn't know how to manage an immature kid properly.

So yes, Kreider is valuable, but he's not vital. And since we lack the vital pieces still, I really don't give a shit about what happens to Kreider. I'm not going to let secondary concerns get in the way of primary ones. I'll f***ing buy him out for nothing or pay a team a draft pick to take him, so I can have the cap space to go get another elite piece (like Eichel, if Buffalo would have traded him here, since we offered the best package). That's how little a secondary player should matter to you.

I'm sorry this always sounds so harsh towards Kreider but he's symbolic of what's wrong with the organization's approach. If he made $4m instead of $6.5 and was deployed on the third line while Lafreniere played ahead of him, like what should be happening for the good of the organization long term, I would hate it far less. Him being stapled into the top 6 when he would have been a good fit next to Chytil on the third line also took a skill-spot away that Kravtsov could have fit into, but roster construction be damned, Kreider "earned," his top spot, to our long term detriment.

Really the truth is he should have been traded for a first and Jason Robertson: we'd have a far younger, better, cheaper player at LW who could be another fixture for us, PLUS the extra first to acquire a young center. It's too late to go back and fix that mistake (though I will continue to argue against the idea that it was only bad to sign him 'in hindsight' - no, it was wrong even with the information we had at the time), but we don't need to keep compounding that error by doubling down on him being an integral part. He's not. Stop treating Chris Kreider like he's going to be one of our best 3 or 4 forwards on our next Cup winner. He won't be. It will never happen.

 

[mas0764]

If you think Kreider is like the 7th best forward on a Cup winner then I have a bridge to sell you.

Maybe 6th best. The least valuable second liner, I could see that. There are winners for whom he'd be best as a third liner though.

He is been by far one of our better players period this year.

Yes, but this year's team isn't going to be a Cup winner, primarily because it's not good enough at forward. It has the goalie and it has the makings of a top defense. Forward, where Chris Kreider is still a first liner, is the problem.

There are so many on this team that have been under achievers this year even though the team has been winning at a high rate. Think Zibs is playing like a number 1 center. Think FC is playing like a 3 center or were you one of the guys pushing him to move up to the 2 spot. Man with all the other issues this team has Kreider is the last one we should be lamenting about at this point.

Kreider isn't underperforming for what he is, true, his problem is that we all know what he is. He's simply not good enough to be one of the best forwards on a Cup winner. I'm not interested in being a playoff team with Chris Kreider carrying us there because I know that ends in disappointment. I'd rather lose to get higher draft picks.

I understand the Rangers are not tanking or missing the playoffs anymore, so I'm out of luck, but I can still advocate that we have to address center and another top forward somehow as our primary objective in terms of roster management. And I will.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I'm "constantly," doing it because that's how you win Cups and compete for a long term and become a top team - by acquiring young, elite talent. I'm not interested in becoming a team that is just "good," again like the 2012-16 Rangers but doesn't win Cups. We saw that movie already, the ending sucked. For too many people on here, they are just in a hurry to taste the second round of the playoffs again and don't care if they actually win a championship. Getting a roster full of non-skilled 20 goal scorers that relies on it's goaltending to carry it is not going to win in this league in this era of the game.

I'm betting on guys who haven't proven it because those are the guys who have a chance to actually win a Cup for us someday. If I go bust, I'll roll the dice and pick high in the draft again. It's the only way. I'm not going to get there relying on a team of 30 year old Chris Kreiders.

A player like him IS a valuable part of a Cup run, but those types of players are too good to allow you to be bad (and draft the real elite talent in the top 5-10 of a draft), but not good enough to put you over the hump. He is a SUPPORT player ultimately, he's the kind of guy that is tearing it up on a third line for an elite team feasting on softer matchups. You can acquire a Kreider or a JG Pageau or another type of aging, 20 goal scorer at just about any trade deadline for a first and a half decent prospect, once you already have enough stars.

These things that people keep insisting we cling to - role players, grit and toughness, experience - are all things that are easy to get later.

We haven't done the thing we actually need to do yet - finish getting our elite young forward talent for the long term. Two isn't enough (and we don't even know if we have two yet). We remain in desperate need of another young center who can be a 1C someday. And in the absence of Chytil's development and Kravtsov being banished, we might need two other top forwards as well. We should have top 6 talent spilling over into our bottom 6 instead of the other way around, which, right now we have far too many bottom 6 players playing on our top lines, because - shocker - we poorly managed our assets by trading a top liner for a bottom liner (and a second round pick) and running off another potential top 6 player because our GM has an ego problem and doesn't know how to manage an immature kid properly.

So yes, Kreider is valuable, but he's not vital. And since we lack the vital pieces still, I really don't give a shit about what happens to Kreider. I'm not going to let secondary concerns get in the way of primary ones. I'll f***ing buy him out for nothing or pay a team a draft pick to take him, so I can have the cap space to go get another elite piece (like Eichel, if Buffalo would have traded him here, since we offered the best package). That's how little a secondary player should matter to you.

I'm sorry this always sounds so harsh towards Kreider but he's symbolic of what's wrong with the organization's approach. If he made $4m instead of $6.5 and was deployed on the third line while Lafreniere played ahead of him, like what should be happening for the good of the organization long term, I would hate it far less. Him being stapled into the top 6 when he would have been a good fit next to Chytil on the third line also took a skill-spot away that Kravtsov could have fit into, but roster construction be damned, Kreider "earned," his top spot, to our long term detriment.

Really the truth is he should have been traded for a first and Jason Robertson: we'd have a far younger, better, cheaper player at LW who could be another fixture for us, PLUS the extra first to acquire a young center. It's too late to go back and fix that mistake (though I will continue to argue against the idea that it was only bad to sign him 'in hindsight' - no, it was wrong even with the information we had at the time), but we don't need to keep compounding that error by doubling down on him being an integral part. He's not. Stop treating Chris Kreider like he's going to be one of our best 3 or 4 forwards on our next Cup winner. He won't be. It will never happen.

I eagerly look forward to your posts each morning. I just want you to know that.

 

[mas0764]

I eagerly look forward to your posts each morning. I just want you to know that.

I aim to please!

 

[McRanger92]

Going by our track record, it's folly to rely on the kids. It has not gone well at forward.

All the money in the world and somehow we siphon out all of the offensive ability from our forwards... it's so demoralizing....

The young defenseman in the organization have typically performed very well to start their careers. Fox/Lindgren/Miller/Lundkvist are all contributing with under 3 years NHL experience.

 

[Fitzy]

If you factor in goal-causing screens as assists (Which they frankly should be, as they are often far more impactful than most secondary assists) Kreider produces as a first line player.

Also "The dialogue" about what player fits what role on a cup winning team is a bit farcical. All kinds of different types of teams have won Stanley Cups, with strengths and weaknesses in different areas. There isn't a magic formula, it's all probabilistic.

The time will come to move on from Kreider or Trouba, maybe both, but they are both currently completely irreplaceable on this roster. I also see a lot more potential candidates to replace Trouba from within the organization than I do Kreider. He's the best in the game at what he does. Franzen with speed.

 

[AlaBlueShirt]

Just saw an interview where Zegras talked about growing up as a rangers fan. Come home already.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I aim to please!

You're knocking it out out park these days. Really impressive stuff.

 

[mas0764]

Just saw an interview where Zegras talked about growing up as a rangers fan. Come home already.

I will also never let go of the fact that Gorton needed to sweeten the pot with Edmonton to get them to bite on that Buch-for-8OA deal back in 2019. Shoulda thrown in DeAngelo or something if needed.

 

[mas0764]

On the contrary. Chychrun makes it easier to KEEP Trouba because Chychrun has an amazing contract.

You still need to make room for the kids and Trouba is redundant with Schneider here eventually.

That $8m is eventually better spent elsewhere. It's just the reality of the situation. Trouba was paid to be a top pair RHD who would get PP1 minutes. Then the Fox miracle happened and we tripped and fell into Lundkvist, Miller, Robertson and Schneider in successive drafts.

Trouba will not be here till the end of his contract.

 

[mas0764]

Just saw an interview where Zegras talked about growing up as a rangers fan. Come home already.

Nothing we can offer Anaheim to pry him out of there though.

 

[mas0764]

Next 2 games I would roll out:

Kreider - Zib - kakko
LAF - chytil - Strome
Barron/Hunt - Goodrow - Goat
Hunt/Barron - Rooney - Reaves

Since they are not moving Strome out of center while he's on the team, I think they have to do something to make it work with him at the pivot.

I do want to see Panarin up there when he's healthy with Zibanejad.

 

[McRanger92]

Chytil scratch yesterday was telling, and warranted imo. He needs to respond well to it or he will be shipped out for more of a sure thing at forward. Ive seen it discussed on twitter but i keep coming back to to Chytil/Kravtsov going to Vegas to help them clear cap for Eichel's return.

Chytil+Kravtsov+Reunanen+2nd for Karlsson/Stephenson+Reilly Smith? Id add more on the Rangers side if need be. There are a lot of guys on Vegas who could solidify this team, because right now the NYR are good but incomplete. They need 1 or 2 veteran forwards who can play top 9.

Kreider-Mika-Kakko
Panarin-Strome-Smith
Lafeniere-Karlsson-Gauthier
Rooney/Hunt-Goodrow-Reaves

Much more solid looking forward group. Less question marks

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Just saw an interview where Zegras talked about growing up as a rangers fan. Come home already.

Can thank Edmonton for that one

 

[mas0764]

Chytil scratch yesterday was telling, and warranted imo. He needs to respond well to it or he will be shipped out for more of a sure thing at forward. Ive seen it discussed on twitter but i keep coming back to to Chytil/Kravtsov going to Vegas to help them clear cap for Eichel's return.

Chytil+Kravtsov+Reunanen+2nd for Karlsson/Stephenson+Reilly Smith? Id add more on the Rangers side if need be. There are a lot of guys on Vegas who could solidify this team, because right now the NYR are good but incomplete. They need 1 or 2 veteran forwards who can play top 9.

Kreider-Mika-Kakko
Panarin-Strome-Smith
Lafeniere-Karlsson-Gauthier
Rooney/Hunt-Goodrow-Reaves

Much more solid looking forward group. Less question marks

The Rangers cannot be moving out their kids for more 28 and 29 year olds who are expensive. It's suicide for the future of the organization and it's going all-in on the next 2-3 seasons, which is stupid, because this team doesn't really look like it's ready to win in that window.

If Chytil and Kravtsov go, it has to be part of a package for a YOUNG center.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

And the ink isn’t quite dry.

Most of us were very vocal about the concern of zibs next contract. Sadly, our concerns are real and are already showing itself