Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXVII

[mas0764]

Bill Parcels was one of the toughest coaches from an era where coaches and management were much tougher on players. He wouldn't have even known how to deal with something as ridiculous as the shit Krav pulled here...maybe would have fought Krav? Fought Krav's dad?

That stupidity aside, what you obviously don't understand here is the dynamics of a locker room. Forget about Drury for a second. Every player on the Rangers understood Krav felt he was entitled to a spot in the top six/nine, and was unhappy not being there. I guarantee you this wasn't sitting well. This kid, who has done nothing in the NHL, felt like he could walk onto the big club and just demand be given a spot over Kreider, Zib, Panaran, Strome, Kakko, Goodrow, Blais, Chytil, or Laf...and you think the best thing the org could have done was give it to him?? That the other players on the team would have been good with this because Krav needs to be treated special?

That's ridiculous

Two things would have happened if Drury gave into this guy. First, the entire locker room would have been lost. Second, somebody on the team would have beaten the shit out of Krav. Considering the makeup on this years team, Drury might have actually saved Krav's life on that second point.

All completely unsubstantiated speculation. Really, you know what every player was thinking? False.

I can do this too: I guarantee it was not a problem. See? I guarantee it.

 

[haohmaru]

Did taking a hard line on Lias prevent Kravtsov from acting out? No.

It doesn’t matter for precedent. That’s Stone Age 1980s nonsense that doesn’t always apply in pro sports anymore. Sometimes it’s the right approach, sometimes it’s not. This time it is not.

It is, because the guy didn't belong on the NHL roster - and neither did Lias. Whatever the fallout from that is it is. You don't just get to be on the team because your feelings are hurt and it's 2021. You have to be better, prove you belong, and get back to it. Lias went out to LA and... was sent down to the AHL. Maybe the second time around he was mature enough to deal with it. Now, he's on a two way contract because he's STILL a borderline NHL player. I hope he makes it. I hope Kravtsov makes it. They still ended up hurting themselves and the organizations that they committed to play for because of their immature decisions.

We can agree to disagree.

 

[bleedblue94]

Just speculating.

So than how do you know what Drury offered is better?

 

[mas0764]

So than how do you know what Drury offered is better?

Im just speculating. I don’t really know. It’s my opinion that what we could offer would be a better package.

 

[bleedblue94]

Parcells went out of his way to treat high upside players different all the time. He knew exactly what each player needed to get the most out of them. Some of them it was tough love, some of them it was a little softness.

He wouldn’t give no-talent hacks much leeway, but unproven kids with lots of talent like Kravtsov? He fostered many of them.

Just curious but have you ever considered that a talented, spoiled acting player might just need the tough love long term to get his shit together rather than being coddled? The point you're trying to make of a manager knowing what each player needs can just as well be applied here as it may benefit kravtsov long term to go through this and get a reality check. NYR is doing fine without him right now, he's the one suffering by his own actions. He would probably have been back in the NHL already and had every opportunity to earn and secure that top 9 w the injuries we had. Instead blais took advantage of the opp and has really opened eyes for a place in the current top 9

 

[bleedblue94]

Im just speculating. I don’t really know. It’s
My opinion that what we could offer would be a better package.

Yeah but that's not what you actually said bud...

Most any team COULD offer a better package but they aren't, that's the point...

 

[bleedblue94]

It is, because the guy didn't belong on the NHL roster - and neither did Lias. Whatever the fallout from that is it is. You don't just get to be on the team because your feelings are hurt and it's 2021. You have to be better, prove you belong, and get back to it. Lias went out to LA and... was sent down to the AHL. Maybe the second time around he was mature enough to deal with it. Now, he's on a two way contract because he's STILL a borderline NHL player. I hope he makes it. I hope Kravtsov makes it. They still ended up hurting themselves and the organizations that they committed to play for because of their immature decisions.

We can agree to disagree.

I just can't ever get behind making excuses and exceptions for immaturity, that just breads entitlement and a lack of responsibility

People say kids go up faster today than ever and in the sports world they are surrounded by agents and handles for years prior to reaching adulthood, yet also in the sports world we make more excuses for their childishness than ever before.

 

[smoneil]

Completely unrelated to the Kravtsov nonsense:

I was today years old when I learned that Ryan Strome has two middle names, and one of those middle names.....is Gaston.

 

[mas0764]

It is, because the guy didn't belong on the NHL roster - and neither did Lias. Whatever the fallout from that is it is.

I don't know what this means.... it is what? You asked me if it sets a precedent. It doesn't.

I don't really care if Kravtsov didn't "earn," a spot on the roster. First of all, I don't believe it; ie, I don't believe he's actually worse than Hunt or Reaves. The Rangers are placing a priority on toughness over skill for those roles, a different preference of style rather than talent. Kravtsov can't "earn," a spot over those guys, cause the Rangers have announced they want a certain type of thing for those spots that Kravtsov doesn't have, never has had, and never will have. The Rangers decided they did not want any more skill players on their roster, not that Kravtsov wasn't objectively one of their best 12 forwards. Which is it's own stupid decision. They were sending him down until they felt he could be deployed in a sense more in line with what Hunt and Blais offered.

Second of all, even if he didn't earn it, I make an exception to keep from losing an extremely valuable asset, if all it costs me is like, Hajek or Hunt or Reaves.

You don't just get to be on the team because your feelings are hurt and it's 2021. You have to be better, prove you belong, and get back to it.

There is no "you get to be," or "you don't get to be." There is no hard and fast rule. Or shouldn't be. Each situation should be evaluated independently. Some players implode with that kind of tough love but it doesn't mean that with a different approach they wouldn't become valuable, contributing, good teammates. For a different team or different scenario maybe letting Kravtsov walk out is the right move. It's not always the right move and wasn't the right move this time. Yes, it's 2021 and coddling selfish players is hardly unprecedented. The Rangers hardline attempts at "not setting precedents," with Andersson and DeAngelo both backfired spectacularly. You'd think people would learn eventually that sticking to your outdated principals doesn't always work out for the best.

They still ended up hurting themselves and the organizations that they committed to play for because of their immature decisions.

No doubt. I'm not saying Kravtsov isn't to blame.

I'm saying the Rangers are equally to blame.

And again, at the end of the day, I'm not a Kravtsov fan. I'm not really interested in making sure Kravtsov gets it right for the good of Kravtsov.

The Rangers need to do better. For me and for us. They are developing a completely unacceptable track record on this.... Andersson, DeAngelo, Kravtsov. Even Kakko has hinted he was unhappy with things.

We can agree to disagree.

I mean, I understand you don't agree. I am not agreeing to not respond though.

 

[mas0764]

Just curious but have you ever considered that a talented, spoiled acting player might just need the tough love long term to get his shit together rather than being coddled? The point you're trying to make of a manager knowing what each player needs can just as well be applied here as it may benefit kravtsov long term to go through this and get a reality check.

Maybe.

Have you considered maybe he doesn't need tough love, and he needs to be soothed a little before he could really develop?

After going 0-for-2 with Andersson and DeAngelo, have you considered that the Rangers have a f***ing problem and they needed to try something different besides drawing lines in the sand on this one?

If this was the first time the Rangers ran off talent I'd be less upset. It's not, it's the third time they've proven incapable of handling a big ego on a talented (or highly drafted) player.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I'm not sure Patrick really matters at this point. He's a reclamation project and he hasn't taken any steps here early w Vegas. Same old same old w him

I mean he might be a reclamation project but he’s got more upside than tuch in my opinion.

 

[NYR Viper]

Reilly Smith is a really useful skilled player. I’d the team felt like they could re-sign him I’d be interested for sure. Tuch would be my preference though if he’s moving.

 

[mas0764]

Yeah but that's not what you actually said bud...

Most any team COULD offer a better package but they aren't, that's the point...

Well, when I say "The Rangers package is/was better," I would think it's implied that I'm saying that it's my opinion that many of the rumored Rangers package are better in my opinion. But if that wasn't clear I have hopefully made it clear now.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Completely unrelated to the Kravtsov nonsense:

I was today years old when I learned that Ryan Strome has two middle names, and one of those middle names.....is Gaston.

 

[bleedblue94]

Well, when I say "The Rangers package is/was better," I would think it's implied that I'm saying that it's my opinion that many of the rumored Rangers package are better in my opinion. But if that wasn't clear I have hopefully made it clear now.

So again, you don't know anything here. I'm not trying to be an ass but you're making statements that are backed by nothing.

 

[bleedblue94]

I mean he might be a reclamation project but he’s got more upside than tuch in my opinion.

I don't know, tuch has shown what he can be when he sets his mind and is motivated, and he has been great in the playoffs while Patrick has constantly struggled and not shown much at this level.

If you're buffalo you prefer tuch for a variety of reasons such as his contract (signed fair for four more years) and the hit number helps you make the floor. Patrick is just more empty promise at this point. I hope the kid can figure it out though

 

[mas0764]

So again, you don't know anything here. I'm not trying to be an ass but you're making statements that are backed by nothing.

I'm not breaking any news like an insider as to what the Rangers package was.

I'm offering my opinion as to what has been speculated we could or did offer, and to it's value.

Is that not allowed?

 

[LORDE]

So we aren't getting Eichel after we resigned Zbad?



WHAAAAAAAAAT?

 

[bleedblue94]

Maybe.

Have you considered maybe he doesn't need tough love, and he needs to be soothed a little before he could really develop?

After going 0-for-2 with Andersson and DeAngelo, have you considered that the Rangers have a f***ing problem and they needed to try something different besides drawing lines in the sand on this one?

If this was the first time the Rangers ran off talent I'd be less upset. It's not, it's the third time they've proven incapable of handling a big ego on a talented (or highly drafted) player.

I don't get this, Anderson just isn't a good hockey player and he can't skate at an NHL level. That's a scouting issue and not player development. Not everyone's skating can just be fixed.

Ada was a moron, if NYR was the issue here he wouldn't have sat out for a season, someone would have traded something for him. The cap hit was manageable for teams. I am more inclined to believe he is thriving this year in part from the reality check he got last year when no one traded for him.

You mention 3 shit brains that have had issues as NYR prospects/players, should people start listing all the other ones that haven't had issues here playing in/for this org?

I don't think any player in a tough situation would really feel solid referencing Ada or lias Andersson as people that bring credibility to their own personal struggle...

 

[smoneil]

Maybe.

Have you considered maybe he doesn't need tough love, and he needs to be soothed a little before he could really develop?

After going 0-for-2 with Andersson and DeAngelo, have you considered that the Rangers have a f***ing problem and they needed to try something different besides drawing lines in the sand on this one?

If this was the first time the Rangers ran off talent I'd be less upset. It's not, it's the third time they've proven incapable of handling a big ego on a talented (or highly drafted) player.

Here's a wild thought--Kravtsov was coddled. The team traded a top player in his preferred spot and in return received a guy who should have been easy for Krav to beat out. All Krav had to do was show up ready for camp and look as good as one of the top 9 or 10 wingers. He didn't do it. The top 9 guys all handily out-performed Kravtsov, and he was neck and neck with guys like Gaut and Hunt. They paved the road for him and he refused to drive down it. Now he's pissed that he can't just declare that he's arrived? Krav has had multiple opportunities to grab a spot. Every single time, he either failed to do so, or refused to try (by going back home)

Also, Andersson had issues before we even drafted him--the mistake there was drafting him. And ADA has had issues at every one of his teams. Half a dozen games doesn't mean he's "fixed." And, not for nothing, but even if ADA WERE still here, this would be his last season. He's too expensive to be a 3rd pair and he's not as good as Fox or Trouba (especially with Nils and Schneids on the way). You could maybe say that the team made a mistake in declaring that he'd never wear a Rangers jersey again, but by that point, most everyone knew what he had done and wanted nothing to do with him and his long track record of being a distraction.

 

[bleedblue94]

I'm not breaking any news like an insider as to what the Rangers package was.

I'm offering my opinion as to what has been speculated we could or did offer, and to it's value.

Is that not allowed?

"The NYR package is/was better"

That's not an opinion, that's written as a fact. I don't know why you're trying to wiggle out of it. That statement above is written as if you know something, but all you have is your now admitted opinion...

 

[bleedblue94]

Second of all, even if he didn't earn it, I make an exception to keep from losing an extremely valuable asset, if all it costs me is like, Hajek or Hunt or Reaves.

I don't know about other people, but I was under the impression that NYR hasn't lost kravtsov or the asset that he is. He just isn't playing right now, which is entirely his choice.

If you want to play, come to Hartford and act like an adult...

 

[mas0764]

Here's a wild thought--Kravtsov was coddled.

Then coddle him a little bit longer while you quietly seek a trade.

The team traded a top player in his preferred spot and in return received a guy who should have been easy for Krav to beat out.

Well when it moved Kreider to RW it kinda ended the chance for Kravtsov to earn one of those top 6 spots.

And then it came down to Kravtsov beating out Blais for a grit role in the top 9 or on the fourth line.

Again, you can't tell me Kravtsov isn't a better hockey player than Hunt or Reaves. I don't believe it.

They chose otherwise for those spots based on preference for toughness, which I will repeat they went overboard with this offseason.

All Krav had to do was show up ready for camp and look as good as one of the top 9 or 10 wingers. He didn't do it. The top 9 guys all handily out-performed Kravtsov, and he was neck and neck with guys like Gaut and Hunt.

The top 9 WINGERS, or top 9 forwards?

Taking centers out of it cause he hasn't been played at center, I don't think it's in dispute he's not as good as Panarin, Lafreniere, Kakko and Kreider right now.

Blais stayed healthy and clearly had an edge. Goodrow was specifically imported for a special function and was always making the team as well.

There should have been room for him over Reaves, Hunt, or McKegg. They chose to keep those guys for toughness by playing Blais and Goodrow up instead.

This doesn't excuse Kravtsov for misbehaving. I'm saying there are things the Rangers could have done differently knowing they have a spoiled brat on their hands.

They chose poorly. It is on them. Protecting their asset and developing Kravtsov in whatever role they can find for him is more important than keeping Hunt around or "not setting precedent," - as "not setting precedent," doesn't work for them, it clearly doesn't discourage bad behavior, and keeps resulting in loss of value without equal compensation coming back.

 

[mas0764]

I don't know about other people, but I was under the impression that NYR hasn't lost kravtsov or the asset that he is.

This spat has drastically reduced his value.

 

[bleedblue94]

This spat has drastically reduced his value.

A spat doesn't kill value, what value did he actually have this summer that he doesn't have now?

At the end of the day the issues are:

A
Kravtsov shouldnt be on the roster bc he's done nothing to earn it. He had a meh camp and got hurt. Other guys played better w the opportunity.

B
NYR player development isnt screwed bc of lias, Ada, and VK. Those were your examples

C
Everyone else in the league would know that there were issues between nyr and VK, it was on a f***ing podcast, they knew about it and used the story

D
You keep ignoring that all VK has to do in order to start playing and start earning his way to ny is get on a plane and show up in Hartford but he's making the decision to sit in Russia. He. Him. Kravtsov.

Enough of the excuses...