Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXII

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Introduce actual coyotes as an invasive species

 

[LORDE]

Don't they have coyotes? we have TONS of them here in BC. They're literally running around in the field next to my house every day

I mean we have them here in Orlando, FL too... I doubt anyone would name a sports team after them (though we do have the Solar Bears sooooooo the crap that flies here isn't anything I'd base "real world" on lol)

 

[Ola]

I mean, perhaps there is some legal maneuvering if someone owns the rights, but would they really ever go with anything other than Nordiques?

Edit: Wait- I'm an idiot.... Avs franchise owns it all.

Yeah, but why the Avs would ever block Quebec from using Nordiques beats me.

The NHL should add to their by-laws that a team that relocates always have to reassign their previous name to the league so that it can be reused.

 

[brakeyawself]

Yeah, but why the Avs would ever block Quebec from using Nordiques beats me.

The NHL should add to their by-laws that a team that relocates always have to reassign their previous name to the league so that it can be reused.

They don't! We've sort of figured out that someone or Quebec itself, still retains the rights to their name and logo. We just can't figure out specifically who that is heh. But there is still a contract with the NHL to make Nordiques "official" merchandise. So the Avs can not it seems, prevent them from renaming a new team in Quebec, the Nordiques.

 

[brakeyawself]

Introduce actual coyotes as an invasive species

You don't have to, they ARE an invasive species almost everywhere in North America. Even in the North East corridor now, like NJ, NY state and New England.

Lol this is offtopic, but Coyotes are like the Racoons or Opossums of the Canid family. The problem we are seeing is, after wolves were reintroduced into parts of Canada and northern USA, the coyotes who had then spread out into those regions started mating with wolves. Coyotes are normally solitary creatures and much smaller than wolves. But now we are seeing PACKS of coyote/wolf hybrids, bigger and stronger than regular coyotes, running in packs, using wolf tactics, and since they are less shy than wolves, these are more aggressive. This is actually one of the biggest threat to WOLF populations as the coyote interbreeding dilutes the wolf genes and since there are more coyotes than wolves, they continue to mate "down" from wolf to coyote. Basically causing wolf populations to repopulate at way too low a rate.

Coywolves are Taking Over Eastern North America | Smart News | Smithsonian Magazine

Effort to prevent ‘coywolf’ hybrids is working, study finds | Science | AAAS.

 

[Fitzy]

I feel like a new Nordiques might have the same problem that the new Ottawa Senators have had- namely, that the whole province is already a fan of the massive, historical franchise that has been there for over 80 years.

 

[Barnaby]

Introduce actual coyotes as an invasive species

They would also require a relocation fee.

 

[Barnaby]

Yeah, but why the Avs would ever block Quebec from using Nordiques beats me.

The NHL should add to their by-laws that a team that relocates always have to reassign their previous name to the league so that it can be reused.

Im guessing maybe the league owns the licensing ? For instance, NHL shop will still sell Whaler gear. Yea, I can’t imagine they’d be blocked from using the name.

Edit: if as stated above that someone or Quebec owns the rights then it would only make sense for them to sell it or license it out. If Quebec took on another name then the value of “Nordiques” would certainly plummet.

 

[brakeyawself]

Coyotes aren’t going anywhere as long as Bettman is commissioner IMO. Guy has fought tooth and nail for that franchise every step of the way and I don’t see why it would change now. They’ll work some sort of agreement out with the GRA.

Luckily, Gary is now 69 years old. So I don't know how much longer he has. I guess he does have the benefit that they "keep him on ice" though............ haha.

But MAYBE what like 5 more years? I do agree that the Arizona team is like a pet project of his.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Im guessing maybe the league owns the licensing ? For instance, NHL shop will still sell Whaler gear. Yea, I can’t imagine they’d be blocked from using the name.

Edit: if as stated above that someone or Quebec owns the rights then it would only make sense for them to sell it or license it out. If Quebec took on another name then the value of “Nordiques” would certainly plummet.

No, the licensing belongs to the franchise. That's why the Jets needed permission from the Coyotes to use the old Jets logo

 

[Barnaby]

No, the licensing belongs to the franchise. That's why the Jets needed permission from the Coyotes to use the old Jets logo

Interesting.

Good to know.

 

[brakeyawself]

I feel like a new Nordiques might have the same problem that the new Ottawa Senators have had- namely, that the whole province is already a fan of the massive, historical franchise that has been there for over 80 years.

I can't say I have been to too many suburban Quebec province towns, but while the ones around Montreal and most of the lower province certainly support the Habs, northern Quebec is a little different. Quebec City itself still clearly remembers the Nordiques. Again you can find their flags and gear everywhere in the city. And those who don't have Nordiques gear often have Ramparts gear as they are a major draw. And I am sure there are many Habs fans still in northern Quebec, but I don't think it's quite like Ontario to that effect. The problem the Sens really have is that they are smack in between the Leafs and Habs. I think Ottawa is technically closer to Montreal than it is Toronto. And south of that you have the Sabres and I know Sabres fandom bleeds across the border to a small extent which is why they didn't want to put a team in Hamilton. And then across the Great Lakes you have Detroit Red Wings who are a huge draw even some across the border and Boston which isn't too far. So you have the Senators really dealing with three other, or maybe even 4 or 5 , way more classic teams on their periphery. Whereas Quebec City is really far up north with only Montreal to contend with. And there is still a bit of Quebec v Montreal rivalry in terms of city to city. I think Montreal consider Quebec City a bit "provincial" in nature.

At least, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it! But really, the only other place I have seen that still supports a team that had moved years ago is the Cleveland Browns. Which is why they fought so hard to get their team back. Those are the only two places, Cleveland and Quebec, (and maybe Brooklyn Dodger fans who are now mostly dead), that I have seen such rabid fandom continue on years after the team left.

 

[Tawnos]

Coyotes aren’t going anywhere as long as Bettman is commissioner IMO. Guy has fought tooth and nail for that franchise every step of the way and I don’t see why it would change now. They’ll work some sort of agreement out with the GRA.

They’ll be in a holding pattern with temporary arrangements at GRA or one of the two other arenas in Phoenix that could host hockey until the potential of an arena in Tempe is resolved. (Those other two arenas would be a Barclay’s situation. Not good for hockey, but adequate and acceptable as a temporary solution).

And they aren’t going to Quebec if they do move.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

You are right about the Islanders. But I am not sure you are correct about Hartford vs Quebec. I don't think you are accounting for the popularity of that team and hockey in general in Quebec. It's also a growing population, especially if climate change continues as it's going lol. But ultimately, there will always be strong social pressure to bring a team back to Quebec, far more so than Hartford. And that alone gives Quebec a greater chance.

The way Arizona, CBJ, and Florida can't seem to build their brand or their revenue, really makes those three locations the prime targets for relocation. And I don't think that changes unless they actually do start rising in value, which Florida and Arizona have not in many years now. CBJ, just because it's a more recent location, I think is less likely to be moved. But you never know.

And I think most hockey fans would agree that a team in Quebec makes more sense than a team in Arizona. I don't care how populated Phoenix is, they don't even want the team in that city. And it's not like the rest of Arizona can touch Phoenix in terms of market value. Frankly, I am not sure why that team hasn't been registered to move somewhere all ready. No guarantee it would be Quebex, but they are definitely in the top 5 of plausible locations and they likely always will be until they get a team back. The Ramparts have some of the highest attendance and revenue outside of the NHL and they actually have higher attendance than some NHL teams on a night to night basis. Whatever is preventing a team from returning there is not going to remain forever.

I don't disagree with you on Hartford/Quebec, but I just don't think they will put a team in Quebec City again, though I hope I'm wrong. The revival of the Quebec-Montreal rivalry would be tremendous.

If Bettman wants to top the NBA (a ridiculous ambition/pipe dream of accomplishing), putting a team back in Quebec City definitely won't help him do that. If Bettman had his druthers, all 32 teams would be in the U.S, though most of the TV revenue comes from the Canadian networks (Rogers Sportsnet/Bell-TSN. How many tickets in the US market are freebies?

 

[Tawnos]

The biggest barrier to Quebec getting a team is divisional alignment. This isn’t a Bettman thing, but rather a Board of Governors thing. They want to keep the travel and out of time zone games to the most minimum they can.

If Florida or Columbus were to relocate, they’d be a major candidate, though I think Atlanta 3.0 would have a better shot. Arizona isn’t moving to QC though.

They’d also have a shot if there’s another round of 2-team expansion. QC being one (or Hamilton) and Houston or Portland being the other.

 

[brakeyawself]

No, the licensing belongs to the franchise. That's why the Jets needed permission from the Coyotes to use the old Jets logo

But does that extend to the team name itself? The Thrashers chose the name Jets, but only needed permission, for the old logo and artwork, but not the name. I am assuming the NHL who owns the rights to all of it have say in it depending on the specifics of the lease at least.

They could have theoretically created brand new trademark logo without getting permission from the Coyotes.

The reason I ask is because when they were bidding to be an expansion team in 2016, there was no doubt that they were bidding to become the "Nordiques". At least as far as the name that they planned to use if the bid was accepted.

 

[brakeyawself]

Im guessing maybe the league owns the licensing ? For instance, NHL shop will still sell Whaler gear. Yea, I can’t imagine they’d be blocked from using the name.

Edit: if as stated above that someone or Quebec owns the rights then it would only make sense for them to sell it or license it out. If Quebec took on another name then the value of “Nordiques” would certainly plummet.

I think there is a difference between the name and the logo. The old logo, jersey's etc as part of the history of the franchise probably are part of the teams lease with the NHL who are the actual "owners". But the name I don't think is a part of that. It's actually not very easy to find this information online. And I'm not sure how much permission they would need to make a similar logo.

Interestingly, the Jets also needed permission from Toronto to have A leaf in their symbol at all. So it sounds like the branding is more than just the sum of its parts, but the naming perhaps separate.

 

[NYSPORTS]

The biggest barrier to Quebec getting a team is divisional alignment. This isn’t a Bettman thing, but rather a Board of Governors thing. They want to keep the travel and out of time zone games to the most minimum they can.

If Florida or Columbus were to relocate, they’d be a major candidate, though I think Atlanta 3.0 would have a better shot. Arizona isn’t moving to QC though.

They’d also have a shot if there’s another round of 2-team expansion. QC being one (or Hamilton) and Houston or Portland being the other.

can just send Detroit back to the other conference. Most of us grew up with those great rivals including Det vs Chicago, Stars (Minny), Blues and of course, the Avs.

 

[LORDE]

The biggest barrier to Quebec getting a team is divisional alignment. This isn’t a Bettman thing, but rather a Board of Governors thing. They want to keep the travel and out of time zone games to the most minimum they can.

If Florida or Columbus were to relocate, they’d be a major candidate, though I think Atlanta 3.0 would have a better shot. Arizona isn’t moving to QC though.

They’d also have a shot if there’s another round of 2-team expansion. QC being one (or Hamilton) and Houston or Portland being the other.

Was born in Hamilton and while I love the Pitt of the north (& f***ING HATE PITTSBURGH)

everyone there are leafs fans… very few Sabres fans… but it’s like being from Newburgh, NY (yeah I may have grown up there) and saying they need a team and not the NYR or NYI

But Canadian.

Hamilton has a great arena and people but I doubt the league wants to take much away from TML

 

[Tawnos]

can just send Detroit back to the other conference. Most of us grew up with those great rivals including Det vs Chicago, Stars (Minny), Blues and of course, the Avs.

Did you read what I wrote or are you just responding reflexively?

Detroit is in the East for literally the reasons I’m talking about. And they fought hard with the BoG to get there.

 

[Tawnos]

Was born in Hamilton and while I love the Pitt of the north (& f***ING HATE PITTSBURGH)

everyone there are leafs fans… very few Sabres fans… but it’s like being from Newburgh, NY (yeah I may have grown up there) and saying they need a team and not the NYR or NYI

But Canadian.

Hamilton has a great arena and people but I doubt the league wants to take much away from TML

Hamilton does have its own identity and I think after 40-50 years (like the Islanders and Devils), they’d have enough of a fan base to work out while probably still being 2nd fiddle to the Leafs

 

[NYSPORTS]

Did you read what I wrote or are you just responding reflexively?

Detroit is in the East for literally the reasons I’m talking about. And they fought hard with the BoG to get there.

yes i read it and amazingly slight travel ended some the best rivals in the sport. Typical NHL shooting themselves in the foot. Wings have no rivals in the East compared to what they left. Nice work NHL

 

[brakeyawself]

Well, if nothing else, I think we've reached a few conclusions.

Gary Bettman hates Canada, except for Toronto and Montreal. And probably only because he isn't allowed to hate them if he wants anything to do with hockey.

While Quebec City may deserve a team more than anywhere else in North America, it's unlikely to happen. They would have one of the lowest metro populations (some 800,000) in the entire NHL Which would kind of be like Staten Island getting it's own team. Yet vehement Quebecois will never give up hope.

Coyotes suck. Every variety. The NHL team and the animal. They are the "rats" of the north American landscape.

NHL will always be the little kid brother of North American sports.

The NY Rangers are the most valuable franchise in the league. I think that's important for fans of other teams to remember when wondering if their players would want to come here.

NY Ranger fans can't agree on who's going to still be on the team in 3 years time. But we all have strong opinions about who won't be on the team just next year.

No one loves Patrick Nemeth. No one hates Patrick Nemeth. No one really cares that much about Patrick Nemeth.

How's that Jack Eichel deal working out? Remember just a couple of weeks ago when it was a sure thing?

Back to roster building....

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

yes i read it and amazingly slight travel ended some the best rivals in the sport. Typical NHL shooting themselves in the foot. Wings have no rivals in the East compared to what they left. Nice work NHL

They literally share a division with 3 other Original Six teams.

 

[Tawnos]

yes i read it and amazingly slight travel ended some the best rivals in the sport. Typical NHL shooting themselves in the foot. Wings have no rivals in the East compared to what they left. Nice work NHL

It’s not a slight travel difference for the Wings to be in the East vs the West