We all know it’s Lindgren. But we were also just informed that THESE fancy stats aren’t the good ones, so there’s no validity in this one either.
And just so we’re clear, I am NOT saying trade Fox. I’m saying we SHOULD tear it all the way down and IF that happened, then I would trade Fox, but I haven’t ever said to trade him short of a full scorched earth rebuild. All I have said is that he’s not nearly as anointed in my book as he is in some. I’ve pretty consistently called him a top 10 D, but I don’t think he’s top 5 anymore and even THAT offends some people here.
That's fine w me, nothing offensive there.
I think your earlier discussions of the player have some interesting spaces for exploration. Like just you posting those player cards, presumably making the point that Fox is far from unanimously seen as a top-tier defender...
First of all, he still grades out overall better than every player you posted aside from Makar and Hughes whom no one has said Fox is better than. So it seems like you're now trying to argue in two different directions at once:
Either Dom's model here captures defensive impact accurately and Fox is a worse defender than Makar, Hughes, Morrissey and Heiskenen (while still being a net positive overall, worth saying).
Or, Dom's model does not accurately capture the players overall impact because it would say that Fox IS in fact a top 5 defenseman in the world THIS season.
If course the third option is that you think there's profound issues with the offensive evaluation, which id be curious to hear. And then there's the fourth, that you think it's all bunk, in which case why introduce it?
There's room for really interesting conversation about the models, about what "defensive impact" is, and much more, but instead, as so often happens, the "conversation" is still-born bc people are stuck arguing about how they would personally write a list, essentially what overall a player should be in NHL 25.
You used those screen caps. I included Lindgren's because... Well aren't you at least curious as to how Fox, being not only slow and small, but also spending 2/3 of his 5v5 minutes with a player with Lindgren's outsized negative impact by the same model... I mean how do you make sense of that difference? Fox spent 29% of his 5v5 minutes with K'Andre this year and the goalies saved 1% more of the shots than when it's lindgren-Fox. Just for further context Miller himself has a net -2.8 defensive rating on those cards!
