Speculation: Roster Building thread - Part XVII - (TDL is March 7th)

[Vitto79]

I bet Drury is asking about Soucy and Oleksiak who have 1 year left

Use picks they can get for Lindgren

I also would not be shocked to see an overpaid ufa D acquired for little to nothing . Help another team move cap space

 

[Boris Zubov]

I know its 2025 but did I miss these megashoulder replacement surgeries?

You never watched the six-million dollar man growing up?!?

 

[duhmetreE]

Imagine McDonagh and Fox paired together

Would have been an amazing pair

 

[HonestGabe]

How are Oleksiak's underlying numbers? Borgen's were horrible in that Seattle system but he's been good here.

He strikes me as an interesting buy low candidate and someone that could be a great add for us who can PK and eat the minutes Lindgren was eating but actually be decent at hockey.

 

[McRanger92]

Can't wait to see someone like Borgen on PP1 over Zac Jones. No offense to Borg, but Clownviolette is allergic to thinking logically

 

[LokiDog]

But also this version is Fox is still better than McDonagh ever was.

You know that's not true for me and many others with a similar perspective, because his cards would say the same thing.

I do know that isn’t true for yourself and some others. You also know it is true for a solid handful as well.

There was a time we thought McDonagh had Norris potential, though admittedly, we also all know true defensive D never even get nominated. Better is a relative word. Fox is far more offensively talented in a way that goes beyond the physical ability to handle the puck or weave a pass. His IQ and vision and game sense with the puck are superlative. A large part of his positive defensive impact does not actually happen inside the D zone. It happens by moving the puck the other direction. McDonagh was a hell of a defender and still managed to put up 30ish EV points per year as well as a season with 43 non-PP points. That also happens to be Fox’s career high for non-PP points.

Is Panarin better than Bergeron? Panarin’s broken 95 points more times that Bergeron broke 70. Career high 120 vs 79. Bergeron is in the hall before Panarin, zero doubts. Now, I’m not using that as a comparison, only to illustrate the weight of points. Obviously with Fox and (prime) McD, I think most would agree Fox is better, but just because he puts up points, I don’t believe the gap is nearly what people would think it is. There are other ways to have a massive positive impact on the game, in the case of Bergeron vs Panarin. A career high that’s more than 50% above Bergeron’s career high still can’t close the gap for Panarin. In McDonagh’s case, I’d argue respectable 5v5 numbers, dominant defense, great athleticism, good longevity and 2 Cups brings him closer to Fox’s level than many would care to admit. Just because the points column isn’t as sexy, doesn’t mean he (was) much less effective. Bread and butter looks plain but feeds you better than a box of fancy chocolates.

 

[LokiDog]

How are Oleksiak's underlying numbers? Borgen's were horrible in that Seattle system but he's been good here.

He strikes me as an interesting buy low candidate and someone that could be a great add for us who can PK and eat the minutes Lindgren was eating but actually be decent at hockey.

I brought up Oleksiak as a solid buy low candidate as a stop gap on the left side. Good mobility, top end size, defensive first, can be mean and back when he was with Dallas he occasionally had some surprisingly nice offensive plays.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Eh, he’s broken 40 points 3 times and averages close to 30 even strength points a year himself. A few years ago he had 43 even strength points. Skating is a big part of the game. It deteriorates with age for 99% of players. If you start out poor, it’s more likely to impact the longevity of your success. If you’re a giant you may be able to get by even as you slow down, alla “Jumbo” Joe. Small AND slow are not a good combination. The perception around Fox has indeed changed around the league. It’s absolutely true that if Adam Fox played for any other team in the league he would be mercilessly roasted by the same posters who defend him here. I can literally hear the posters who say Makar can’t defend to save his life FLAYING Fox alive, especially if he had forced his way to a different team in the manner he forced himself to ours. The amount of times he would be called an overrated, soft, defensively weak player would triple the number of times it’s been said about Makar or Hughes if he were on a rival team.

Lmao no.

Makar gets roasted for being bad defensively because he is bad defenisvley. Do you realize theres a reason why that is said about him and it isn't said about Q.Hughes? Because it applies to one but it DOESNT apply to the other.


OTOH, I'd love to see the takes on either of them if they were forced to play with Ryan f***ing Lindgren.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I see people wanting to bring in Gustafsson, like do we forget he wasn't good at the end of his time here? He had a good stretch when Fox was out but other than that good riddance.

 

[SA16]

I do know that isn’t true for yourself and some others. You also know it is true for a solid handful as well.

There was a time we thought McDonagh had Norris potential, though admittedly, we also all know true defensive D never even get nominated. Better is a relative word. Fox is far more offensively talented in a way that goes beyond the physical ability to handle the puck or weave a pass. His IQ and vision and game sense with the puck are superlative. A large part of his positive defensive impact does not actually happen inside the D zone. It happens by moving the puck the other direction. McDonagh was a hell of a defender and still managed to put up 30ish EV points per year as well as a season with 43 non-PP points. That also happens to be Fox’s career high for non-PP points.

Is Panarin better than Bergeron? Panarin’s broken 95 points more times that Bergeron broke 70. Career high 120 vs 79. Bergeron is in the hall before Panarin, zero doubts. Now, I’m not using that as a comparison, only to illustrate the weight of points. Obviously with Fox and (prime) McD, I think most would agree Fox is better, but just because he puts up points, I don’t believe the gap is nearly what people would think it is. There are other ways to have a massive positive impact on the game, in the case of Bergeron vs Panarin. A career high that’s more than 50% above Bergeron’s career high still can’t close the gap for Panarin. In McDonagh’s case, I’d argue respectable 5v5 numbers, dominant defense, great athleticism, good longevity and 2 Cups brings him closer to Fox’s level than many would care to admit. Just because the points column isn’t as sexy, doesn’t mean he (was) much less effective. Bread and butter looks plain but feeds you better than a box of fancy chocolates.

I would agree that Bergeron is in the hall before Panarin considering Bergeron is retired and Panarin is not

 

[LokiDog]

Lmao no.

Makar gets roasted for being bad defensively because he is bad defenisvley. Do you realize theres a reason why that is said about him and it isn't said about Q.Hughes? Because it applies to one but it DOESNT apply to the other.


OTOH, I'd love to see the takes on either of them if they were forced to play with Ryan f***ing Lindgren.

No cheating, who are these 5 players. All #1D on their teams.

 

[LokiDog]

I would agree that Bergeron is in the hall before Panarin considering Bergeron is retired and Panarin is not

The kind of response that does so much to advance the conversation. Panarin is probably not in the hall, period, ever. That was very clearly not the point. I also explained that.

 

[NYR Viper]

That's why you sign both Gavrikov and Maata.

These moves would epically change the dynamic of this team

 

[Boris Zubov]

No cheating, who are these 5 players. All #1D on their teams.

View attachment 983769View attachment 983770View attachment 983771View attachment 983772View attachment 983773

The suspense is killing me.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

No cheating, who are these 5 players. All #1D on their teams.

View attachment 983769View attachment 983770View attachment 983771View attachment 983772View attachment 983773

I've made my qualms with HSC known (wayyyyy too much weight given to goals for and against.) If you're going to play this game there are much, much, much better sources but you provided the material so I'll engage.

I'm going to go ahead and say that Makar, Fox and Hughes are 3 of those players. I have no idea who the 4th or 5th are but I'll take a stab and throw in Werenski since he's having a Norris level year.


Now I'll play this game (and yes I looked these guys up afterwards and turns out I nailed the 4, I still have no idea who #5 is and don't care to look it up) using your own source material.

Partners for Makar, Hughes, Werenski and Fox

Skater | HockeyStatCards.com

Skater | HockeyStatCards.com

Skater | HockeyStatCards.com

Skater | HockeyStatCards.com

Also, if you care to (or if it's even possible) now do a 3 year split with those same guys.

 

[SA16]

One thing to wonder about is if Fox's injury actually makes the team more likely to buy to try and make a run. We already know other players look forward to playing against Fox in the playoffs and he just showed in the 4 Nations he doesn't have the speed or strength to handle that level of play. If he's hurt and can't play the team might be in line to play more of playoff style hockey. This could actually be an addition by subtraction type of situation. Maybe they'll look to bring in some more gritty playoff style players to fill out the roster. Like a David Savard, Jordan Greenway, or Trent Frederic (not sure of his status since he just got hurt too).

 

[Machinehead]

I actually don't think Makar is bad defensively. He's not Adam Fox, but he's a net positive.

Fox continues to be underrated defensively by his detractors. People can have whatever opinions they want, and that's fine -- the guy doesn't give up goals. It's been however many years.

The Rangers are still outscoring everyone when he's on the ice. The Rangers are putting up very similar numbers with Fox on this year to the year he won the Norris, with a much lower on-ice save percentage.

People keep telling me "hey this sucks!" and like, you don't have to enjoy watching it, but you can't make me hate the results when we're always better than the other team.

I think he's struggled a bit in recent weeks, specifically in that department which is getting amplified. It's also nowhere near his 22-23 season, low-key his best, and he ABSOLUTELY should have won the Norris, talk about "it's all about points."

But taken as a whole, this is still a top 10 defenseman we're talking about right now.

And at the risk of getting heated again, I just know we're gonna hear from those people who like to say "oh +/- matters now!!!" because they still don't understand the difference between goal differential and traditional +/-!!!!

Pardon me. I just had to get that last part off my chest.

 

[Machinehead]

Oh, and one thing I will say about Makar is that he plays with, probably a top 15-20 defenseman as his partner. What a weakling.

 

[NYRfan85]

If Panarin or Kreider decides to waive for LA Kings, I want Laferriere back in that deal. He was a Rangers fan growing up from Jersey. Young RW depth hard nose player north south goes to the net type

Poor Sam would have an aneurism with Laferriere and Lafreniere on the same team, especially if they're on the ice at the same time lol

 

[Machinehead]

Poor Sam would have an aneurism with Laferriere and Lafreniere on the same team, especially if they're on the ice at the same time lol

"Here's Staalman at the point, over to Stral."

 

[NickyFotiu]

You never watched the six-million dollar man growing up?!?

I'm now singing the theme song in my head. My favorite show as a kid but Steve had 2 bionic legs, an bionic arm and a bionic eye. No bionic shoulders

 

[LokiDog]

Now I'll play this game (and yes I looked these guys up afterwards and turns out I nailed the 4, I still have no idea who #5 is and don't care to look it up) using your own source material.

Well that’s a flat out lie, since the other two are Morrisey and Heiskanen, and that level of disingenuous bad faith debate makes me utterly disinclined to respond to the rest of your message.

 

[NYR Viper]

All I will say is I am continually shaking my head at people trying to argue that Fox should be moved. Like the team has problems, and the list is decently long. Fox isn't even on the list. He's no where close to the list. If Drury was able to trade Kreider, Panarin, Zibanejad, Smith, Lindgren and Vesey and allocate those cap dollars to a truly elite forward (or two), a top pairing LD and another competent LD and the team was still struggling MAYBE I look at Fox. MAYBE.

 

[SA16]

All I will say is I am continually shaking my head at people trying to argue that Fox should be moved. Like the team has problems, and the list is decently long. Fox isn't even on the list. He's no where close to the list. If Drury was able to trade Kreider, Panarin, Zibanejad, Smith, Lindgren and Vesey and allocate those cap dollars to a truly elite forward (or two), a top pairing LD and another competent LD and the team was still struggling MAYBE I look at Fox. MAYBE.

Well let's see which players have people blamed over the last many years...

Gaborik
Nash
Fox
Panarin

This board always hates the best players on the team.

 

[McRanger]

One thing to wonder about is if Fox's injury actually makes the team more likely to buy to try and make a run. We already know other players look forward to playing against Fox in the playoffs and he just showed in the 4 Nations he doesn't have the speed or strength to handle that level of play. If he's hurt and can't play the team might be in line to play more of playoff style hockey. This could actually be an addition by subtraction type of situation. Maybe they'll look to bring in some more gritty playoff style players to fill out the roster. Like a David Savard, Jordan Greenway, or Trent Frederic (not sure of his status since he just got hurt too).

This might be your masterpiece.