Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

[MrAlmost]

Honest question, why does he give you those vibes and why do you feel that way?

He's a great player. On the Rangers, without mackinnon and makar, I don't think he is nearly the player he is now. He will be 29 when the deal starts at an astronomical amount, he a RW and the only way you get him is without panarin likely. So who is surrounding him? Likely Fox who can play and who? Trocheck and Laf? I don't think we have the speed or the puck moving ability to continue to capture his best. We should focus on Center and Defense.

But the team will do what they do so we will see.

 

[McRanger92]

Eichel is the guy they’ll go for in 2 summers, not Rantanen next summer. It’s been telegraphed for years. He’d be foolish not to hit the market.

 

[grachevsceiling]

He's a great player. On the Rangers, without mackinnon and makar, I don't think he is nearly the player he is now. He will be 29 when the deal starts at an astronomical amount, he a RW and the only way you get him is without panarin likely. So who is surrounding him? Likely Fox who can play and who? Trocheck and Laf? I don't think we have the speed or the puck moving ability to continue to capture his best. We should focus on Center and Defense.

But the team will do what they do so we will see.

Yeah I’d rather look for a C obviously, but it basically means you’re drafting one, and I doubt they’ll rebuild that way. Nobody should be off the table for a good young C.The D is more easily fixable.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Kreider not traded after the freeze lifted? He must literally be asleep at the wheel.

If he's getting offers like he did for Kakko I'm glad he hasn't pulled the trigger yet. A contender or 2 suffering a top 6 injury should increase the market value.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Eichel is the guy they’ll go for in 2 summers, not Rantanen next summer. It’s been telegraphed for years. He’d be foolish not to hit the market.

Eichel would be a massive mistake.

His injury history is extensive and it hasn’t really been much better in Vegas than it was in Buffalo.! That isn’t going to change as he ages. It’s likely to get worse.

Rantanen would be a much safer buy. Center depth is overrated.

 

[NYR Viper]

Dallas can take the full $11.6 for this year and next?

Even so - one team?

I’m sure there would be other teams who would or could make it work if he was indeed available. Some may require the Rangers taking back a contract or two of depth guys, ala the Gaborik to CLB trade years ago. I just know Dallas can make it work without any gymnastics based on Seguin’s injury

 

[IDvsEGO]

Eichel would be a massive mistake.

His injury history is extensive and it hasn’t really been much better in Vegas than it was in Buffalo.! That isn’t going to change as he ages. It’s likely to get worse.

Rantanen would be a much safer buy. Center depth is overrated.

Center depth is not "overrated" its properly rated.

Every cup team has had at least a True #1 since the cap.

Past 10 -
FL - Barkov
VGK - Eichel
COL - Mackinnon
Tampa - Point
STL - ROR
WSH - Backstrom
PIT - Crosby
PIT - Crosby
CHI - Toews
LAK - Kopitar

You want to go back further?

I agree that you can probably get away with weaker centers at 2/3 if you have better centers.
But the reason I was so excited about the rangers the past few years was WE HAD CENTER DEPTH
Mika was a 1b
Trocheck was a high end 2A/low end 1b
Chytil was a high 3A or even low 2b

Centers can be augmented by a high end wing, but not to the extent that you need defensively.

Rantanen isn't really a "safe buy" because he's a wing who while he does play the game in the style we want (heavy physical and still scores), he's rarely been the teams primary option.
He's also not been the loudest voice in the room.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

GDT will be up in a few, hung over this morning, need some time.

No worries, this is more effort than the Rangers will put out tonight

 

[Guyute]

Sell/tank this year and next. Kreider for a 1st. Panarin with 50% retention for a 1st++. Hope that one of our 2025 and 2026 lottery picks can yield a Hagens/Schaefer/Misa/Martone/McKenna/Roobroeck/Verhoeff.

Use the accumulated cap space after next season on McDavid or Eichel. Don't waste it on Marner or Rantanen next summer. We have a million wingers already.

Just like that, we have a youngish core set to compete for the Cup for many years. The main obstacle, as always, is convincing Dolan that it's okay to suck for 24 months.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Center depth is not "overrated" its properly rated.

Every cup team has had at least a True #1 since the cap.

Past 10 -
FL - Barkov
VGK - Eichel
COL - Mackinnon
Tampa - Point
STL - ROR
WSH - Backstrom
PIT - Crosby
PIT - Crosby
CHI - Toews
LAK - Kopitar

You want to go back further?

I agree that you can probably get away with weaker centers at 2/3 if you have better centers.
But the reason I was so excited about the rangers the past few years was WE HAD CENTER DEPTH
Mika was a 1b
Trocheck was a high end 2A/low end 1b
Chytil was a high 3A or even low 2b

Centers can be augmented by a high end wing, but not to the extent that you need defensively.

Rantanen isn't really a "safe buy" because he's a wing who while he does play the game in the style we want (heavy physical and still scores), he's rarely been the teams primary option.
He's also not been the loudest voice in the room.

If you only need one then it’s incredibly
Overrated.

I would hope that you have a really good one in your top 9 forwards, but it’s more important to have strength up and down your lineup than at one position. If you want to make the case that you need at least one, I can buy that.

Plus there are more wing slots than center slots. I’d rather have 8 really good players than 4.

I wouldn’t go in on Eichel regardless, he’s been good for missing 20 ish games every year for the last few and you can’t really control when he’s going to miss them. I don’t think anyone is a “safe” buy when you’re getting big money, I’ll take my chances on the guy who has actually stayed relatively healthy over the course of his career of its one or the other. I think worrying about Rantanen away from MacK is valid, but who cares if he’s the loudest voice in the room? Crosby has the personality of an ingrown public hair and he’s great and has won 3 times.

I watched Chicago win a cup with Handzus as their 2C and Toews doing f*** all in the 2013 playoffs. They were able to do this because they were strong everywhere. That should be the goal here, not filling some mythical center depth. Calling Mika a 1b is revisionist history. He isn’t very good now but he was very bit a true high end #1 at his peak. It’s a spot where this team had actually been pretty solid over the last few years. It’s far from the reason why this current group wasn’t able to get over the hump (see: Trouba and Lindgren.)

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Drury deserves like <5-10% credit for that

So how much credit does Knoblauch get for taking the Oilers to Game 7, or Jerry Reese get for the Giants Super Bowl 42 win, or Bylsma for the Penguins first Cup with Crosby and company?

 

[LokiDog]

At some point this has to be BS yeah? It comes up far too often that "GM X" wasn't aware. And in the case of KK everyone and their dog knew that Drury was at least interested in hearing offers. Maybe there's just a shit-tin of really incompetent GMs, but more likely it's just cheap quotes for gullible journos

The thing that bugs me about the quote is that it says GMs “didnt know a deal was going down that fast” not that the player wasn’t available. Which kind of indicates that Drury got an offer he thought was decent and just goes, “okay, done” instead of waiting to see if other offers come in and negotiating based off the offer he already had in his pocket, OR - god forbid - actually calling other GMs himself and saying “Seattle offered X and I’m taking it by 5pm so send your best offer”. Which indicates that either Borgen was his actual target, which is just a sadly low bar he’s setting (Blais was the target too though, right?) or he just takes the first offer that comes in and sucks at his job.

 

[IDvsEGO]

If you only need one then it’s incredibly
Overrated.

I would hope that you have a really good one in your top 9 forwards, but it’s more important to have strength up and down your lineup than at one position. If you want to make the case that you need at least one, I can buy that.

Plus there are more wing slots than center slots. I’d rather have 8 really good players than 4.

I wouldn’t go in on Eichel regardless, he’s been good for missing 20 ish games every year for the last few and you can’t really control when he’s going to miss them. I don’t think anyone is a “safe” buy when you’re getting big money, I’ll take my chances on the guy who has actually stayed relatively healthy over the course of his career of its one or the other. I think worrying about Rantanen away from MacK is valid, but who cares if he’s the loudest voice in the room? Crosby has the personality of an ingrown public hair and he’s great and has won 3 times.

I watched Chicago win a cup with Handzus as their 2C and Toews doing f*** all in the 2013 playoffs. They were able to do this because they were strong everywhere. That should be the goal here, not filling some mythical center depth. Calling Mika a 1b is revisionist history. He isn’t very good now but he was very bit a true high end #1 at his peak. It’s a spot where this team had actually been pretty solid over the last few years. It’s far from the reason why this current group wasn’t able to get over the hump (see: Trouba and Lindgren.)

If 32 teams need a 1A Center.

And theres maybe 10-12 of them.
Yes its incredibly easy to get.

Please please hear the sarcasm in that sentence.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Sell/tank this year and next. Kreider for a 1st. Panarin with 50% retention for a 1st++. Hope that one of our 2025 and 2026 lottery picks can yield a Hagens/Schaefer/Misa/Martone/McKenna/Roobroeck/Verhoeff.

Use the accumulated cap space after next season on McDavid or Eichel. Don't waste it on Marner or Rantanen next summer. We have a million wingers already.

Just like that, we have a youngish core set to compete for the Cup for many years. The main obstacle, as always, is convincing Dolan that it's okay to suck for 24 months.

Kreider for three playoff runs should get at minimum a first, a good to very good prospect, and a mid round pick. With retention I'd want a second that becomes a conditional first.

Dallas I'd want Bischell, a 2025 first, and a 2026 third. If the Rangers retain then it's a 2026 third that becomes a 2026 second if they go to SCF, and a 2026 first of they win the Cup.

why is Laviolette still employed?

Who should come in to coach then?

It's either you keep Lavi the rest of this season and make a change, or give the Captain's Chair to Peca/Muse on a trial run.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Kreider for three playoff runs should get at minimum a first, a good to very good prospect, and a mid round pick. With retention I'd want a second that becomes a conditional first.

Dallas I'd want Bischell, a 2025 first, and a 2026 third. If the Rangers retain then it's a 2026 third that becomes a 2026 second if they go to SCF, and a 2026 first of they win the Cup.


Who should come in to coach then?

It's either you keep Lavi the rest of this season and make a change, or give the Captain's Chair to Peca/Muse on a trial run.

The latter I would love

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

The latter I would love

I'm fine with either Peca or Woodcroft after the season.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I'm fine with either Peca or Woodcroft after the season.

I’m fine with literally anyone. Let Fox coach. Lav is horrible

 

[kovazub94]

I’m sure there would be other teams who would or could make it work if he was indeed available. Some may require the Rangers taking back a contract or two of depth guys, ala the Gaborik to CLB trade years ago. I just know Dallas can make it work without any gymnastics based on Seguin’s injury

That’s my point - the Rangers are not rebuilding so I’m against taking salary back. If Panarin is moved - I want to see what’s coming back that on his level (and allegedly more impactful in playoffs).

 

[mike14]

The thing that bugs me about the quote is that it says GMs “didnt know a deal was going down that fast” not that the player wasn’t available. Which kind of indicates that Drury got an offer he thought was decent and just goes, “okay, done” instead of waiting to see if other offers come in and negotiating based off the offer he already had in his pocket, OR - god forbid - actually calling other GMs himself and saying “Seattle offered X and I’m taking it by 5pm so send your best offer”. Which indicates that either Borgen was his actual target, which is just a sadly low bar he’s setting (Blais was the target too though, right?) or he just takes the first offer that comes in and sucks at his job.

I've been sinking tins on the other side of the planet for a month and I knew a deal would be going down as soon as Drury got an offer he thought met KK's worth. If these GMs were interested, why hadn't they made an offer? Of course they were aware.
This screams of 'we made a lowball offer (or weren't interested at all) but now want to put pressure on a GM in the hope he coughs up something we do want for cheap'. Which I guess is a strategy, but seems like a poor one. The journos reporting it should maybe ask a few more questions though...

Drury obviously has some communication issues, both inside and outside the organisation; but I can't imagine he, or any other GM, is calling their peers who haven't shown any interest in a player who is being shopped, and giving them updates on trade negotiations.

I know I should stop being surprised at the seeming ineptitude of the NHL as a whole, but it is really difficult.

 

[JimmyG89]

Every cup team has had at least a True #1 since the cap.

Past 10 -
FL - Barkov
VGK - Eichel
COL - Mackinnon
Tampa - Point
STL - ROR
WSH - Backstrom
PIT - Crosby
PIT - Crosby
CHI - Toews
LAK - Kopitar

It goes beyond that but starts there. They had legit 2 and 3Cs as well.

Florida has Bennett and Lundell. Vegas went 4 deep at C. Colorado had Kadri at 2C. Tampa had Stamkos and Cirelli. STL had Schenn but this one is the most outlier, Hawks in 15 is somewhat too. Washington has Kuznetsov and Eller. Those Pens teams had 2 1Cs. LA had Kopitar-Richards-Carter in 14.

Yes, you need the 1C, but having everyone slot below is needed. I can see Chytil as a 2C and Trocheck as a 3C when contending again, but those might need upgrades too.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

I’m fine with literally anyone. Let Fox coach. Lav is horrible

My issue with the internet and social media fanbase in general (not you) is that everyone is quick to criticize and demand change but there's no "ok, what would you do?" or "which human is going to coach?"

There's a lot of rage and "yeah, but....." arguments out there. If Lavi goes, who is a better option at this point? Peca, Muse, Woodcroft, Potulny, heck, Drury could be a total troll and just go behind the bench the rest of the year. That would guarantee a tank!

Same deal with buying out Mika. That's gonna be like 12 years worth of dead cap and all I hear is "yeah but, he stinks". You give him a new workout plan like Brad Richards summer of 2013 and work around his deal at minimum two seasons, or you make Brodz the C in his place and live with the consequences.

I've been sinking tins on the other side of the planet for a month and I knew a deal would be going down as soon as Drury got an offer he thought met KK's worth. If these GMs were interested, why hadn't they made an offer? Of course they were aware.
This screams of 'we made a lowball offer (or weren't interested at all) but now want to put pressure on a GM in the hope he coughs up something we do want for cheap'. Which I guess is a strategy, but seems like a poor one. The journos reporting it should maybe ask a few more questions though...

Drury obviously has some communication issues, both inside and outside the organisation; but I can't imagine he, or any other GM, is calling their peers who haven't shown any interest in a player who is being shopped, and giving them updates on trade negotiations.

I know I should stop being surprised at the seeming ineptitude of the NHL as a whole, but it is really difficult.

Drury tried to trade Kakko at the draft and was getting $.25 on the dollar offers (Brooks, Vince, Elliot Friedman were talking about a second rounder at most).

So he took quantity. Two guaranteed picks with the option to trade an solid NHL player in Borgen for more. Now it's up to the staff to find NCAA projects or Euro league guys and make the picks work. Another Laba or Mancinni perhaps?

 

[NickyFotiu]

The thing that bugs me about the quote is that it says GMs “didnt know a deal was going down that fast” not that the player wasn’t available. Which kind of indicates that Drury got an offer he thought was decent and just goes, “okay, done”

It wasn't even a real quote from an anonymous source. Was closer to heresay imo. Paulie sold his 6 year old Ford Focus for $8,000 (that he had for sale for a year)? Darn I would have given him $8,500 lol

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If 32 teams need a 1A Center.

And theres maybe 10-12 of them.
Yes its incredibly easy to get.

Please please hear the sarcasm in that sentence.

You don’t need a 1A center unless you retroactively want to brand ROR or Backstrom as one and I won’t let you or
Anyone else hindsight their way through that one.

One of my least favorite memes here along with “only fast teams win!”

Here’s the rub: our team, with the forwards being what they were last year could have won the whole thing if the defense was better. There was no “1A” center in that group.

You know what did hurt? Giving top billing to Lindgren and Trouba and having an 11.6 million dollar forward decide to go AWOL. It’s almost as if having a well rounded roster is more important than being strong in a single position or having a “1A” center.

You could have flipped Barkov and Zibanejad and this team might beat Florida, but they would have gotten roasted by Edmonton because of the defense.

 

[GlasgowNewYorkRanger]

Eichel is the guy they’ll go for in 2 summers, not Rantanen next summer. It’s been telegraphed for years. He’d be foolish not to hit the market.

Billboard in Vegas incoming then?

 

[New York RKY]

BLOW IT UP TO THE MOON ALREADY.