Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLVIII

[Gardner McKay]

Continue...

Click to read more...

 

[Gardner McKay]

Everyone moved on from that a few pages ago.

I guess I'll take that as your acknowledgement it was a bad idea. Nothing wrong with wanting to move up but in a draft where we have the #1 pick we can settle for our next pick being in the 20's.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

 

[Trxjw]

I know it's fun to speculate about the Rangers shanking Tampa in the gut with an offer sheet, but given the history of trading between the two franchises, I don't think they'd want to nuke that bridge. In fact, would Gorton rather have Tampa in his pocket by helping them out of their cap crunch? Maybe the Rangers, who are looking for more "north-south" guys and want to "get harder to play against," would be interested in someone like Palat or Killorn? 2 and 3 years left on their deals, respectively. Both guys can play in the top six but bring enough to the table that they're not going to be out of place on the 3rd line if they get pushed down by new arrivals. Both bring a bit of a different element to the roster and might make the team more comfortable exploring options for trading Buch for defensive help?

Obviously it would likely require Hank retiring to free up enough money. Plus, these aren't guys who fit into the long-term plan. However, they might be good stepping stones to help the team feel comfortable addressing other needs while also improving their versatility in the short term.

 

[NYSPORTS]

ah, new thread . . .

I’m liking this relationship the Rangers have going with Winnipeg.

Rangers trade Kevin Hayes to Jets for;
Jacob Trouba
Brendan Lemiuex

Followed by Jets win Phase I of NHL draft lottery so Rangers can win Phase II

What’s next? Dustin Byfuglien for league minimum?

 

[n8]

I can tell you I've never heard even a grumbling about Trouba from the Rangers, or any indication from other sources that they think the Rangers are unhappy and looking to move him.

The reality is, if we're looking for the most likely RD candidates to be moved in the next 18 months, you're looking at ADA or Lundkvist.

I get that some people will not like hearing that, but that's the straight shot.

I totally get the Rangers like Trouba. They would not have signed him otherwise. I was personally against the trade. Would have preferred staying with Pionk and the draft pick. We would have been in a much better cap and roster situation. More options but who knew? Tis life.

I think how ADA's resign process goes will heavily indicate his future with the NYR. It's hard to part with a dman you've developed who just finished 4th in defenseman scoring behind the likes of Carlson, Josi, and Hedman. ADA will probably look at the numbers Pietroangelo (the other Angelo) gets and uses that as a benchmark (even though he's UFA - hoping Pietro resigns with STL at a hometown discount).

With the uncertainty of minor league hockey, Lundkvist might not get to see north american ice this season and have to stay in SHL another year so we can be patient there. Either way, if we have to part with one of them, I think their values are both trending up. I just hate the idea of Zubov'ing a potential star d-man off the team. It's a painful memory I don't wish to repeat and trading Trouba (however unlikely) could magically make that go away.

 

[Thirty One]

I know it's fun to speculate about the Rangers shanking Tampa in the gut with an offer sheet, but given the history of trading between the two franchises, I don't think they'd want to nuke that bridge. In fact, would Gorton rather have Tampa in his pocket by helping them out of their cap crunch? Maybe the Rangers, who are looking for more "north-south" guys and want to "get harder to play against," would be interested in someone like Palat or Killorn? 2 and 3 years left on their deals, respectively. Both guys can play in the top six but bring enough to the table that they're not going to be out of place on the 3rd line if they get pushed down by new arrivals. Both bring a bit of a different element to the roster and might make the team more comfortable exploring options for trading Buch for defensive help?

Obviously it would likely require Hank retiring to free up enough money. Plus, these aren't guys who fit into the long-term plan. However, they might be good stepping stones to help the team feel comfortable addressing other needs while also improving their versatility in the short term.

There's not a big history of trading there, is there? They just sign all our old players. Not that I think an offer sheet is likely.

 

[cheech70]

I look at it in a simple way...If I am choosing sides and my choice is Staal, Smith or K'Andre..I am picking K

 

[broadwayblue]

Jarvis in the 20s would be a nice get.

 

[NYR Viper]

I guess I'll take that as your acknowledgement it was a bad idea. Nothing wrong with wanting to move up but in a draft where we have the #1 pick we can settle for our next pick being in the 20's.

I'll take responsibility for that conversation even needing to take place...

 

[NYR Viper]

I wonder if the Rangers would be more apt to go into next year with a bit of a 'platoon' on the left side than a true first pairing guy right now. I've brought up Oleksiak before because Dallas may be looking to both cut and re-allocate money but he'd be someone I could see filling a role as a bottom-pairing dman for a season. His size and physicality would probably be a nice compliment to someone like ADA or Fox for a season and he would help clear the front of the net as well. He's not totally devoid of talent but he plays a simple game and may be had for a late round pick or depth prospect just due to the cash implications.

 

[Trxjw]

There's not a big history of trading there, is there? They just sign all our old players. Not that I think an offer sheet is likely.

I feel like there were a few trades that were rumored which never materialized between them on top of the McDonagh and St Louis deals. Might be wrong though.

 

[Thirty One]

I feel like there were a few trades that were rumored which never materialized between them on top of the McDonagh and St Louis deals. Might be wrong though.

I totally forgot about the St. Louis deal.

 

[n8]

I totally forgot about the St. Louis deal.

are we digging up old Barret Jackman rumors again?

 

[Trxjw]

I totally forgot about the St. Louis deal.

It's not like it's the same front office as then of course either, but I suspect they tend to draft a lot of players the Rangers like.

 

[Thirty One]

are we digging up old Barret Jackman rumors again?

I think this is the year we get him. Left side is wide open.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think this is the year we get him. Left side is wide open.

I'm still waiting for Keith Tkachuk, screw the sons

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I wonder if the Rangers would be more apt to go into next year with a bit of a 'platoon' on the left side than a true first pairing guy right now. I've brought up Oleksiak before because Dallas may be looking to both cut and re-allocate money but he'd be someone I could see filling a role as a bottom-pairing dman for a season. His size and physicality would probably be a nice compliment to someone like ADA or Fox for a season and he would help clear the front of the net as well. He's not totally devoid of talent but he plays a simple game and may be had for a late round pick or depth prospect just due to the cash implications.

I'll pass.

There are better options out there who can be had for less.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

I'm still waiting for Keith Tkachuk, screw the sons

With the Bulin Wall

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

The best Ranger to never score a point with the Rangers (in 20+ games) was Darroll Powe

 

[Fitzy]

Does anyone know why Trevor Gillies is trending on hockeydb? Always irks me that a guy genuinely worse at hockey than I am got to play so much in the NHL.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Maybe Morgan Barron becomes the #2 Center.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

:::Cough::: Halloway:::Cough

I think he'd be an ideal player to get with our 2nd 1st, though I'm sure we'd have to trade up.

Why, yes, @Edge and @jas. That *is* what I was suggesting.

You now risk the wrath of @GoAwayStaal

Eh, I imagine he would come around to a 6'1", 203lb center who scored 40-48-88 in 53GP in his last season in the AJHL, if he could be convinced that the kid's pedestrian showing his freshman year was primarily due to a shitshow coaching job by Granato & co. that may have dragged down everyone on the team.

And if not...

I'll survive.

 

[mas0764]

When someone says that there are 4 LDs on the way and some are going to be quite good, there is an inherent presumption that people are knocking on the door.

What you are doing is taking prospects that have not proven anything and waiving a magic wand and saying "two of them will make for top-4". That then gives you the ability to state that the Rangers should not be looking for trade partners for LD but should do something else that you want. The thing is that none of them showed that they are close to being ready. Not yet at least. And even after they become ready, the chances of them instantly becoming top-4 is even lower.

The view is not looking at worst case scenarios, it is what is realistic in the next several years. One thing is that it is unrealistic to truly compete with the left side the way it looks today. Another is that it is unrealistic to expect kids that have either a) never stepped a toe onto NA ice or b) never played above juniors to be able to step into such a role. Sure it happens, but no one is going to bank on that or plan for that.

And I would easily take a Trouba like defender and pair him with well, Trouba rather than hope that some kid that is nowhere near the NHL can step into that spot over the next several years.

There is an "inherent presumption"? What is an inherent presumption? You mean to say, that's what you presumed? I think some others understood what I meant quite differently than you apparently did.

There's no magic wand waving necessary. I think you just have some sort of different grasp on what you think realistic is over the next several years. You are apparently of the opinion that there will be no need to clear more than 1 spot for a LD of our 5 or so prospects in the next couple seasons, so trading for a guy like Lindholm or Nurse is a good idea.

I disagree.

Lindgren has and probably keeps a spot (unless on of the prospects actually is better than him and replaces him). That leaves two spots open.

I'm presuming that at least two of Miller, Robertson, Jones, Reunanon, Rykov, or Hajek become worthy of taking those spots within 2 years, maybe 3 at the most. That's realistic. The guys who are gonna pan out, usually pan out between 21 and 23 years old. Miller is 20. Reunanon is 22. Rykov is 23. Hajek is 22. Jones and Robertson (both approaching 20) may be a little further out, sure, but they are still, as I said, "on the way." You have to plan for them arriving within the length of any long term deal you give out to a veteran. You don't hand out long term deals to a guy like Nurse and then get caught flat footed when Matt Robertson is ready to make the team.

Why you think it requires "magic wand waiving" for highly regarded prospects to become pros within 2-4 years of their drafting is beyond me. History doesn't back you up. It indicates some will make it and some won't, but it would be quite a long shot for none of them to make it. We have numbers on our side.

What am I gonna do till then? I dunno. But probably not part with big time assets to get Nurse or Lindholm, just so they can block Jones or Robertson in two seasons and I have to dump one of them again. My inclination would be to find a stop gap that does not block the prospects.

 

[Ola]

Of course but with tbe amount of NMC's and NTC's they have handed out that might be a much taller order than expected.

I'd be willing to make it worth their while, but I'd love to put the screws to Tampa, f them. Cirelli is a great fit for the Rangers too.

Yeah, I really like him too.

I would be a little worried about the pressure it would put on the kid though if we snagged him with an offer sheet. Like if you pay someone 6m today it’s not super star money. Far from it. But you just know that media would run with an offer sheet and it would be a heck of a deal.

I would definitely be — very — interested in Mikhail Sergachev with like a 7m 7 year offer sheet (1-2-3 rd pick compensation).

For several reasons:

-Obviously we lack a top LD in the system. Sergachev should be able to play with Trouba on the top pairing. He is a very devoted young kid that sets a good example.

-From 22 to 29. It’s the perfect years for a long contract.

-Like it is almost idiot proof since the first 4 years — right? — can’t include a NTC/NMC. We could still trade him to anyone before July 1 2024 when he is just 27 y/o. It may not be popular to sign someone and then trade him right away, but in 4 years that is forgotten.

My point is just, if we wanted to invest our money elsewhere by then, it would surprise me if we couldn’t get a 1st back, and quite possibly a lot more, in a trade and that is an option we will have for four years.

-NHL GMs are like what 1 for 9 with offer sheets since the cap (Penner being the only one working out, right?).

But it’s not optimal for a LD to play RD and everyone can see that. Tampa got Hedman and McD under wraps for many years. McD has been great for Tampa in the POs so far. One of their best players. He has obviously stayed in great shape and benefitted from time off. I don’t think they would match it. If they don’t — their cap problems are solved. If they do match it, they have 3 LDs and all kinds of problems going forward.

-Giving up an unprotected 1st is risky as heck. But sometimes you must gamble.