Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLII Time for Curtis Lazar?

[bobbop]

Sources need to be protected

 

[Mikos87]

An Eichel deal will more than likely require 6-8 pieces going back. You are talking about an absolute premium of a player. Think on the level of the Duchene deal for Colorado, without a Bowen Byram being a part of it.

• Strome
• Buchnevich
• Chytil
• Georgiev
• N. Lundqvist
• 2020 1st
• 2020 1st
• 2021 2nd

Something along the lines of what's above is something that I would even hesitate to give up. That's 5 NHL level players, and potentially 3 more in the coming short years.
BUF needs a stud to go back, or they need a trade that fills up NHL level roles up and down their line-up. Because, BUF as an organization does not have any help coming their way.

If you get a third team involved and they take say Strome and/Buch for assets that get flipped to BUF, then you are talking about a much more palatable deal.

Look I would pull the trigger, even knowing the ramifications. I firmly believe you win with depth, and a trade like this... well a trade like this forces you pro-am scouting to be good very quickly. That means for a Ranger org that really doesn't have much forward prospect help coming in except for Barron, VK, or Lias, that depth needs to work out. That means having a Khodorenko or Richards crack the line-up right away.

Whether it's Eichel or not, a prospect for star player trade is going to need to happen. After next year's cap clearing event, I fully expect the Rangers to load up and start gunning for the cup. Eichel makes that process a lot easier for the Rangers. It's an over the top move to acquire him.

 

[Trxjw]

If Minnesota try to trade for Eichel , Kaprizov will be off limits. Kaprizov has been completely off limits in any trade talks . Teams have asked about him. Only Dumba, Brodin or picks are available for players like eichel

That would be hilariously stupid on Minnesota's part, but I'm going to go ahead and not believe you.

 

[Fitzy]

Sources need to be protected

Sure, but I don't see how explaining the nature of the issue reveals the source.

 

[Mikos87]

Sure, but I don't see how explaining the nature of the issue reveals the source.

I think the degree of the issue(s) is quite subjective. Can Jack's level of influence and certain actions be perceived as not fitting with traditional hockey hierarchy? Absolutely.

But the NYR are not the BUF Sabres in many ways. Got a lot of respect for @bobbop. Six months before the DeAngelo deal we were talking about the topic. I for one was pro DeAngelo, and we both knew of the issue(s) that were out there.

Totally legit. But I for one thought that Tony would thrive here. Like Sean Avery, not every player is a fit on every team, city or organization. I'm definitely in the get Eichel bucket if it's out there.

 

[aufheben]

If I were a Sabres fan I’d want Fox + Shesterkin + Chytil + 1st.

Eichel is literally 50% of Buffalo’s core. You can’t make an offer for him that leaves our core completely untouched.

 

[SA16]

Is Eichel a good player? Yes.

Is Eichel a good guy or does he have any personality issues? No idea. Do we care about these? No.

The end. I could not care any less about what meaningless info this source has as none of it has prevented him from being a great offensive player on the ice nor have you really heard anyone (other than the awful Mike Harrington) say anything bad about him.

If we want nice guys Tanner Glass and Cody McLeod are available though.

 

[bl02]

If I were a Sabres fan I’d want Fox + Shesterkin + Chytil + 1st.

Eichel is literally 50% of Buffalo’s core. You can’t make an offer for him that leaves our core completely untouched.

this more along the lines of reality and not strome/buch/1st/Chytil (as much as I like Chytil) in which the Sabres would laugh at.
It’s gonna be painful For whoever acquires Eichel at least it should be if buffalo is halfway competent. Hey maybe we hit top 3 lottery this year and that probably changes everything if you put that on the table for Eichel:

 

[Kocur Dill]

Is Eichel a good player? Yes.

Is Eichel a good guy or does he have any personality issues? No idea. Do we care about these? No.

The end. I could not care any less about what meaningless info this source has as none of it has prevented him from being a great offensive player on the ice nor have you really heard anyone (other than the awful Mike Harrington) say anything bad about him.

If we want nice guys Tanner Glass and Cody McLeod are available though.

We don't want Carmelo Anthony's either.

But, without the "insight" we don't know the kids perceived issue and frankly, after Andresson and Kravtsov, I'm not 100% confident in managements personality metrics/evaluation protocol. So Bobbop's source is iffy at best. Although I appreciate the tidbit.

For now, Eichel gets the benefit of the doubt.

 

[RGY]

An Eichel deal will more than likely require 6-8 pieces going back. You are talking about an absolute premium of a player. Think on the level of the Duchene deal for Colorado, without a Bowen Byram being a part of it.

• Strome
• Buchnevich
• Chytil
• Georgiev
• N. Lundqvist
• 2020 1st
• 2020 1st
• 2021 2nd

Something along the lines of what's above is something that I would even hesitate to give up. That's 5 NHL level players, and potentially 3 more in the coming short years.
BUF needs a stud to go back, or they need a trade that fills up NHL level roles up and down their line-up. Because, BUF as an organization does not have any help coming their way.

If you get a third team involved and they take say Strome and/Buch for assets that get flipped to BUF, then you are talking about a much more palatable deal.

Look I would pull the trigger, even knowing the ramifications. I firmly believe you win with depth, and a trade like this... well a trade like this forces you pro-am scouting to be good very quickly. That means for a Ranger org that really doesn't have much forward prospect help coming in except for Barron, VK, or Lias, that depth needs to work out. That means having a Khodorenko or Richards crack the line-up right away.

Whether it's Eichel or not, a prospect for star player trade is going to need to happen. After next year's cap clearing event, I fully expect the Rangers to load up and start gunning for the cup. Eichel makes that process a lot easier for the Rangers. It's an over the top move to acquire him.

Duchene did not reel in that much.

I’d be sick to my stomach if we traded essentially (4) 1st round picks, two top 6 forwards (one of which was a former top 5 pick), and a goalie who could start on a lot of teams in the NHL. Oh and a 2nd round pick too.

huge pass. Humongous pass.

would rather just sign a high end forward RFA to an offer sheet in the 3rd highest tier and pay the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick compensation.

 

[egelband]

Every time a star player is rumored available, posters throw out statements like "oh, he'll cost your two best players plus half the farm" and it never happens.

Joe Thornton with 3 years remaining on his deal returned Marco Sturm, Wayne Primeau, and Brad Stuart.

Rick Nash with 6 years remaining on his deal returned Artem Anisimov, Brandon Dubinsky, Tim Erixon and a first-round pick.

But Jack Eichel with 6 years remaining is going to cost Mika Zibanejad + + + + ?

I don't see it.

I've said for a while now that if Eichel were ever to come here, a deal centered around ADA (who as the fourth highest scoring D in the league this year, only one year older, and an RFA due a new deal, shouldn't be that far off Eichel value-wise) + 2-3 more minor pieces (say, Hajek and Henriksson) makes the most sense.

Otherwise, I think you're looking at something more like Strome, Chytil, Lundkvist, plus a 1st (maybe add Smith for salary purposes).

I agree to the extent that the $10m salary cap hit will be considered a negative asset in the trade. That’s a good point. But on the other hand, the Sabres have a lot of contract/CBA leverage so they’ll definitely be real pain for the acquiring team. The Rangers has to give up two 2nds for an unproven Fox, for example. A bit more than consensus expected. So I’d say the answer is somewhere in the middle. One very big piece plus furniture could be the cost.

 

[egelband]

Whichever team wins the SC this year will have an asterisk next to its name. Hell, could you imagine if we won? Other fans will try to delegitimize it. It'll be the new "You won the Cup with a bunch of former Oilers."

My sense is that this playoff structure is being pretty favorably viewed. I don’t think there will be much consternation. The play-in isn’t ideal but the playoff itself should be quite legit. I mean, the season hasn’t been 82 games since time immemorial. I don’t think there will be much complaining more than there normally is. Just my sense.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I agree to the extent that the $10m salary cap hit will be considered a negative asset in the trade. That’s a good point. But on the other hand, the Sabres have a lot of contract/CBA leverage so they’ll definitely be real pain for the acquiring team. The Rangers has to give up two 2nds for an unproven Fox, for example. A bit more than consensus expected. So I’d say the answer is somewhere in the middle. One very big piece plus furniture could be the cost.

Fox was unsigned, subject to a 3-year ELC. Eichel is a player teams have to fit under the cap. That limits their options as the selling party.

 

[egelband]

Fox was unsigned, subject to a 3-year ELC. Eichel is a player teams have to fit under the cap. That limits their options as the selling party.

I get it’s not the same exact situation but it’s still a team with an asset and a very limited range of destinations. Yet the selling team still got good value.

e: simply, my point is, like with Fox, the Rangers won’t be able to basically ‘name their price’. It’ll cost something painful. Maybe not two or three big pieces but definitely one.

 

[Uncle Dru]

I'd prefer to direct my wishful thinking toward Barkov. UFA 2 years from now, before his 27th birthday, and if Florida continues their losing ways I could see him wanting out...

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Eichel is exactly the type of player the NYR should get if ADA is being moved (in a package obviously).

And while I see the appeal for the NYR I’d also have to think he is about as good of a headline piece coming back as any team could offer.

 

[Savant]

Hypothetically speaking and salaries aside, would you do Kakko for Eichel straight up?

Yes. Not that Kakko is on the block, but for Eichel you kind of have to

 

[Savant]

I'd prefer to direct my wishful thinking toward Barkov. UFA 2 years from now, before his 27th birthday, and if Florida continues their losing ways I could see him wanting out...

Reminder that Eichel is three years younger than Barkov, and locked in for six more years

 

[Savant]

Trouba makes more sense in an Eichel deal than ADA does. I'm with @Savant on that.

And it’s nothing against Trouba. It’s just math.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I'd prefer to direct my wishful thinking toward Barkov. UFA 2 years from now, before his 27th birthday, and if Florida continues their losing ways I could see him wanting out...

Scenario A: Getting Eichel for 10m AAV until age 29
Scenario B: Getting Barkov for 5.9m until age 26 and then an extension

It's an interesting comparison

 

[Savant]

Scenario A: Getting Eichel for 10m AAV until age 29
Scenario B: Getting Barkov for 5.9m until age 26 and then an extension

It's an interesting comparison

I don’t think Florida trades Barkov while Quenneville is there, but that’s another interesting target.

 

[Uncle Dru]

I don’t think Florida trades Barkov while Quenneville is there, but that’s another interesting target.

Agreed, was thinking more along the lines of waiting and signing him in free agency if he gets there (as opposed to giving up a king's ransom for Eichel). Just wishful thinking

 

[Ola]

Let’s halt the on ice merits of trading for Eichel talk a bit, seriously — can anyone even attempt to describe how we could ice a competitive cap compliant team in 3 years time with Eichel on the roster?

Cap will most certainly not be much over 80m.

Trouba, Kreider and Panarin is 26.5m.

Two goalies and a 4th line is at least 12m.

Eichel 10m

Total: 48.5m
Left to spend: 32m

We have left to fill, 1 first line forward, 2 second line forwards, a 3rd line and 5 Ds. 11 players in total. That is app. 2.9m per player.

Like a defense costs money. Let’s say the remaining 3 in the top 4 on defense costs just 5m each on average — that leaves us with 12m for 1 first line forward, 1 second line forward, 3 third line forwards, 2 third pair Ds and a couple of spares lol. 7+2 players.

Maybe I am missing something — but I can’t even remotely see how it could make sense for us to get Eichel.

 

[Savant]

Let’s halt the on ice merits of trading for Eichel talk a bit, seriously — can anyone even attempt to describe how we could ice a competitive cap compliant team in 3 years time with Eichel on the roster?

Cap will most certainly not be much over 80m.

Trouba, Kreider and Panarin is 26.5m.

Two goalies and a 4th line is at least 12m.

Eichel 10m

Total: 48.5m
Left to spend: 32m

We have left to fill, 1 first line forward, 2 second line forwards, a 3rd line and 5 Ds. 11 players in total. That is app. 2.9m per player.

Like a defense costs money. Let’s say the remaining 3 in the top 4 on defense costs just 5m each on average — that leaves us with 12m for 1 first line forward, 1 second line forward, 3 third line forwards, 2 third pair Ds and a couple of spares lol. 7+2 players.

Maybe I am missing something — but I can’t even remotely see how it could make sense for us to get Eichel.

I mean in my Eichel scenario I’m trading Trouba so there isn’t a cap issue.

But anyway look what the Penguins and Blackhawks did. It’s possible. You have your pillars and you build around them. RFA bridge deals. Vet minimum deals. People taking less to play with Hart trophy candidates on a winning team.

of course this is opening a window, but if it doesn’t work, you still have assets to retool on the fly. That being said if Mika and Eichel and Crosby and Malkin. Panarin is Kessel. Fox is Letang and Igor can give you what Fleury and Murray gave in those playoff runs; the template is there.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I mean in my Eichel scenario I’m trading Trouba so there isn’t a cap issue.

But anyway look what the Penguins and Blackhawks did. It’s possible. You have your pillars and you build around them. RFA bridge deals. Vet minimum deals. People taking less to play with Hart trophy candidates on a winning team.

of course this is opening a window, but if it doesn’t work, you still have assets to retool on the fly. That being said if Mika and Eichel and Crosby and Malkin. Panarin is Kessel. Fox is Letang and Igor can give you what Fleury and Murray gave in those playoff runs; the template is there.

Why is Trouba accepting a trade to Buffalo?