Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLII Time for Curtis Lazar?

[Avery16]

How many points does Eichel get playing with Panarin and Kakko? 110, 120? DeAngelo is a great offensive dman but we can replace him in house. Fox can jump on pp1 and get similar points with Zib, Panarin and Kreider and Eichel, DeAngelo is better on the pp but I'm doubtful that adding Eichel and Fox and subtracting DeAngelo makes our pp worse or adding Eichel and say Lindqvist and losing DeAngelo makes us worse 5 on 5. Fox had 42 points this year without playing on pp1. We could draft for 30 years(we have) and not get an Eichel. I still don't think Buffalo trades him much less to NY but that's my opinion.

I wasn't aware…who is our other PPG D? Fox is very good but it isnt him.

 

[nyr2k2]

I wasn't aware…who is our other PPG D? Fox is very good but it isnt him.

We don't have a PPG defenseman.

What Fox did as a rookie is substantially better, both offensively and defensively, than what DeAngelo did prior to this year. It's not unreasonable to expect him to get better.

DeAngelo could also get better.

My bet is that the offensive drop-off from DeAngelo to Fox, in a year or two, is minimal.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Panarin of Rangers should win Hart Trophy, Avalanche's MacKinnon says

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

We don't have a PPG defenseman.

What Fox did as a rookie is substantially better, both offensively and defensively, than what DeAngelo did prior to this year. It's not unreasonable to expect him to get better.

DeAngelo could also get better.

My bet is that the offensive drop-off from DeAngelo to Fox, in a year or two, is minimal.

Fox is going to be a legitimate top pair D. He's pretty close to one already.

I very much doubt that he will ever be able to run a PP as well as DeAngelo does though. TDA was just as responsible for the success of PP1 as Panarin and Zibanejad were so in that case, I think that the gap between them offensively will be significant enough.

Unless of course Fox ends up becoming a monster producer at ES which is totally possible.

 

[aufheben]

We don't have a PPG defenseman.

What Fox did as a rookie is substantially better, both offensively and defensively, than what DeAngelo did prior to this year. It's not unreasonable to expect him to get better.

DeAngelo could also get better.

My bet is that the offensive drop-off from DeAngelo to Fox, in a year or two, is minimal.

But then who replaces Fox? DeAngelo can run wild offensively while Fox and Trouba handle the defensive matchups. Fox and DeAngelo are going to have very different roles in the future.

 

[aufheben]

Just wondering but do we consider Zib better or worse than Sean Monahan

Not only better but not nearly as boring either.

 

[Avery16]

We don't have a PPG defenseman.

What Fox did as a rookie is substantially better, both offensively and defensively, than what DeAngelo did prior to this year. It's not unreasonable to expect him to get better.

DeAngelo could also get better.

My bet is that the offensive drop-off from DeAngelo to Fox, in a year or two, is minimal.

Fox and ADA are different types of defensemen. They play different games. Just because ADA achieved x in year 3 and Fox achieved y in year 1 doesn't mean that Fox is going to hit ADA numbers, maybe ever. Both Fox and ADA are special D to have, but they are not interchangeable.

 

[LokiDog]

We don't have a PPG defenseman.

What Fox did as a rookie is substantially better, both offensively and defensively, than what DeAngelo did prior to this year. It's not unreasonable to expect him to get better.

DeAngelo could also get better.

My bet is that the offensive drop-off from DeAngelo to Fox, in a year or two, is minimal.

I think we’ll have enough puck moving acumen and offense on the back end between some combination of Fox, DeAngelo, Lundqvist, Trouba (he has the ability... not carrying a deadweight partner could help), Miller (has the offensive instincts), etc. regardless of which of them ends up in the long term plans.

If DeAngelo moves the needle for Buffalo, it’s something you have to be completely willing to do. It’s not a guy whose got great potential or is borderline 1C. It’s Jack Eichel. Having Panarin plus Eichel and Zibanejad down the middle is lethal. Could be the best current 1/2C situation in the league if it came to fruition. If you count Drai as a center only Edmonton would have us beat.

 

[LokiDog]

Fox and ADA are different types of defensemen. They play different games. Just because ADA achieved x in year 3 and Fox achieved y in year 1 doesn't mean that Fox is going to hit ADA numbers, maybe ever. Both Fox and ADA are special D to have, but they are not interchangeable.

This is absolutely true. Much as I would pull the trigger on DeAngelo in an Eichel deal, that doesn’t change this fact. I think Fox is more likely to end up a 55 point all around guy while DeAngelo has the potential to be a 70+ point Dman, which is rare and special and adds a different dynamic, but not as well rounded. He’s not a tire fire defensively, but Fox will be very good in all aspects.

 

[nyr2k2]

Fox and ADA are different types of defensemen. They play different games. Just because ADA achieved x in year 3 and Fox achieved y in year 1 doesn't mean that Fox is going to hit ADA numbers, maybe ever. Both Fox and ADA are special D to have, but they are not interchangeable.

I didn't say they were interchangeable. I just pointed out that a) DeAngelo is not a PPG D, and b) I think if given the opportunity to QB the PP, in a season or two Fox would be able to post similar numbers.

(I guess I didn't explicitly state that second point, but it's what I was thinking, mainly.)

 

[nyr2k2]

But then who replaces Fox? DeAngelo can run wild offensively while Fox and Trouba handle the defensive matchups. Fox and DeAngelo are going to have very different roles in the future.

I wasn't really trying to get into a discussion about who to move--just saw that post at the top and wanted to add my thoughts to it.

I haven't figured out in my mind how to handle the RD. I do think DeAngelo is the most likely to go, though.

 

[aufheben]

I wasn't really trying to get into a discussion about who to move--just saw that post at the top and wanted to add my thoughts to it.

I haven't figured out in my mind how to handle the RD. I do think DeAngelo is the most likely to go, though.

It’s ok I was just chiming in. It’s not debate club lol.

 

[nyr2k2]

It’s ok I was just chiming in. It’s not debate club lol.

I would be down for debate club. We didn't have that in my HS and in college I was too interested in...other things.

 

[aufheben]

I would be down for debate club. We didn't have that in my HS and in college I was too interested in...other things.

BRO YOU THINK FOX CAN JUST REPLACE DEANGELO?

 

[haohmaru]

Let's just keep our RD, please.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I wasn't aware…who is our other PPG D? Fox is very good but it isnt him.

We dont have any point per game dmen. DeAngelo had 53 in 68 this year and is roughly .5 per game in his career. Adam fox had 42 in 70 in his rookie year, not playin with Panarin and Zib on the pp. If you dont think he would get another 10 points on pp1 especially if Eichel was added to it, I dont know what to tell you.

 

[Avery16]

I didn't say they were interchangeable. I just pointed out that a) DeAngelo is not a PPG D, and b) I think if given the opportunity to QB the PP, in a season or two Fox would be able to post similar numbers.

(I guess I didn't explicitly state that second point, but it's what I was thinking, mainly.)

If you look at the OP, my premise is that you dont trade ADA, who looks to be a PPG D. Yes, he didnt cross the line yet. Hes very close, and hes young. He looks to be a PPG D, and in my opinion Fox does not. But Fox has other abilities ADA lacks.

 

[Avery16]

We dont have any point per game dmen. DeAngelo had 53 in 68 this year and is roughly .5 per game in his career. Adam fox had 42 in 70 in his rookie year, not playin with Panarin and Zib on the pp. If you dont think he would get another 10 points on pp1 especially if Eichel was added to it, I dont know what to tell you.

Scroll up.

 

[LokiDog]

I would be down for debate club. We didn't have that in my HS and in college I was too interested in...other things.

Was it calculus club?

 

[nyr2k2]

Was it calculus club?

Why is a calculus book always unhappy? Because it always has a lot of problems!

 

[Fitzy]

I didn't say they were interchangeable. I just pointed out that a) DeAngelo is not a PPG D, and b) I think if given the opportunity to QB the PP, in a season or two Fox would be able to post similar numbers.

(I guess I didn't explicitly state that second point, but it's what I was thinking, mainly.)

I think they're different types. DeAngelo the Yandle, Fox the McDonagh. Both with produce, but one is clearly a PPQB speciality and the other a great even strength two way defenseman who plays the second unit.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I'm not sure this is a Lindros-level package. Let's be honest, they would ask for Kakko to start. Buch and TDA are guys who will need contracts (not that cap space would be a problem for them), but would those two players want to commit long-term to Buffalo? Chytil and the first are nice pieces, but how do you sell your fans/team on that?

For the umpteenth time, Jumbo Joe went for Marco Sturm, Wayne Primeau, and Brad Stuart. I know it's not apples to apples, but honestly, when has ANY player ever fetched the kinds of return posters on HF demand?

The closest is, of course, post-draft, pre-injury (and pre-salary-cap) Lindros and absolutely that offer is on par. Who in either the PHI or NYR package was close to ADA (given his current status and their then status) in terms of profile?

I doubt it happens this offseason, and wonder whether it ever happens at all, but if/when Eichel gets traded BUF should DREAM of a package that included ADA, Buch, Chytil, +++.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

It’s ok I was just chiming in. It’s not debate club lol.

I mean...

It really kind of is.

 

[Fitzy]

It's also been a really, really long time since a top 10 NHL center was traded, especially at RFA age.

Ryan Johansen is probably the last since Thornton, he didn't have Eichel's numbers, and he went for an equivalent young star defenseman.

Side- Mike Richards and Jeff Carter each got a pretty good haul as well.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

If you look at the OP, my premise is that you dont trade ADA, who looks to be a PPG D. Yes, he didnt cross the line yet. Hes very close, and hes young. He looks to be a PPG D, and in my opinion Fox does not. But Fox has other abilities ADA lacks.

Fox only had 11 points less than ADA and it was his rookie season and wasnt a fixture on the top pp unit, he isn't that far behind. Adding Eichel and Fox and removing DeAngelo to the pp would be a net positive and I have no doubt Fox would gain those 11 points.