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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XL

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Barnaby said:
If Lindgren can have a career in the Dan Girardi neighborhood then that’s a huge win. Girardi eventually broke down and that last Ranger contract was a killer, but he really did put together a great career. I’ll take that anytime.
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There are some differences in their styles for sure but Ryan is a defense first d-man like Girardi who has shown a real willingness to take on the more unappreciated tasks that often go unnoticed but are absolutely necessary to have a successful team. That makes him in my eyes a future glue guy. To me he's our best LD right now. He might want to take some boxing on ice lessons from DeAngelo though because with his combative style I think he's going to have more than his share of disptutes.
 
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eco's bones said:
From what I've seen of Gauthier so far---his upside is kind of like Benoit Pouliot who had nice talent and skill but in his one year with us was carried on the 2nd line by Brassard and Zuccarello. On the current Rangers team and looking at what we have coming I don't see Gauthier making it into our top 6 forwards. He's a nice prospect mind you. Great size and not shy about using it (not a fighter though)--really, really good skater and good goal scoring ability--that's shown more at the AHL level though. Some players can't take that to the next level. Lettieri's been an example of that. Gauthier has a very good chance to make our next team but he's not a lock and if someone like Barron comes along and shows a better overall game that's competition. If Fast is re-signed and then there's Lemieux and Chytil or if a Gettinger outplays him or shows a real knack for fitting into a role better. Shouldn't forget about Andersson either. So Gauthier IMO should not take anything for granted and show up ready to go.
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Gauthier is a good prospect. He can grow into a solid middle 6 winger. If he becomes a legitimate top-6 player, that's a steal and I guess another trade we will thank Gorton for, for years. And while not impossible, it's good to be a bit more realistic and expect Gauthier to be a, as you said, 2013-14 Pouliot type player.
 
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bobbop said:
After looking at a few mocks, I could definitely see the Rangers using one of their third round choices to move up in the first round. A lot depends on how the board breaks.
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With the earlier 1st I don't think a 3rd is going to move us up much. Maybe if we package our 1st with a really good prospect. A lot depends on how other teams tier a draft. If they have 2/3/4 guys they value pretty equally they're more likely to drop a couple spots. If they're down to looking at one or two guys then it is less likely and very unlikely that a 3rd rounder is going to move them enough. These can be very fluid situations--someone or two goes unexpectedly early and all of sudden players are falling and teams are reassessing player values and if you're up next that can mean making a hard decision on the fly. The Rangers IMO are in a good spot with their two firsts. If they really want a player that second first might move the first first up 5 or 6 spots--more than that I don't know.
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
Gauthier is a good prospect. He can grow into a solid middle 6 winger. If he becomes a legitimate top-6 player, that's a steal and I guess another trade we will thank Gorton for, for years. And while not impossible, it's good to be a bit more realistic and expect Gauthier to be a, as you said, 2013-14 Pouliot type player.
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It's kind of where I'm looking at him and it may take him another year or two to get there still so I also see him as potential trade bait. I tend to think he has the goods to make our next team but it may be as a 4th liner. It will help his chances if he can show a good defensive game too. Looking at guys like Barron or a Justin Richards---they were like voted best defensive forward in their respective college conferences. Having a diversified game can help a player find a niche and build from there. Those things have helped guys like Fast and Hagelin find their path. Finding your niche, accepting your role, fitting in. Not everyone is going to be a big point producer and that's okay and doesn't mean you're not a good player if you're not in the top 6.
 
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eco's bones said:
With the earlier 1st I don't think a 3rd is going to move us up much. Maybe if we package our 1st with a really good prospect. A lot depends on how other teams tier a draft. If they have 2/3/4 guys they value pretty equally they're more likely to drop a couple spots. If they're down to looking at one or two guys then it is less likely and very unlikely that a 3rd rounder is going to move them enough. These can be very fluid situations--someone or two goes unexpectedly early and all of sudden players are falling and teams are reassessing player values and if you're up next that can mean making a hard decision on the fly. The Rangers IMO are in a good spot with their two firsts. If they really want a player that second first might move the first first up 5 or 6 spots--more than that I don't know.
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I had to dig through a lot of old threads, but I found this which I typed up back in 2018:

Going back to 2005, these are the trades I could find of teams trading up solely using picks:

2017: 26th (DAL) for 29th + 70th (CHI)
2016: 26th (STL) for 28th + 87th (WSH)
2016: 18th + 3rd (WPG) for 22nd + 2nd (PHI)
2016: 16th + Datsyuk* (ARI) for 20th + 2nd (DET)
2016: 11th (OTT) for 12th + 3rd (NJD)
2015: 29th (CLB) for 33rd + 68th (TOR)
2015: 24th (PHI) for 29th + 61st (TOR)
2014: 20th + 179th (SJS) for 28th + 62nd (CHI)
2014: 28th (NYI) for 35th and 57th (TBL)
2013: 18th (SJS) for 20th + 58th (DET)
2012: 14th (BUF) for 21st + 42nd (CGY)
2011: 22nd (TOR) for 30th + 39th (ANA)
2011: 24th (OTT) for 35th + 48th (DET)
2010: 15th (LAK) for 19th + 59th (BOS)
2010: 22nd + 113th (MTL) for 27th + 57th (ARI)
2010: 30th (NYI) for 35th and 58th (CHI)
2009: 16th, 77th 182nd (MIN) for 12th (NYI)
2008: 5th (TOR) for 7th, 68th, 37th in 2009 (NYI)
2008: 7th (NSH) for 9th, 40th (NYI)
2007: 9th (SJS) for 13th, 44th, 87th in 2008 (STL)
2005: 8th (SJS) for 12th, 49th, 207th (ATL)
2005: 12th (NYR) fot 16th and 41st (ATL)


*Datsyuk already retired from the NHL, so this was just the cap hit traded to Arizona

And these are the teams who traded into the 1st (or up) with players involved:

2017: 7th overall + DeAngelo (NYR) for Raanta + Stepan (ARI)
2017: 31st overall + Sundqvist (STL) for Reaves + 2nd (PIT)
2017: 27th overall + cond. '18 1st + Lehtera (PHI) for B. Schenn (STL)
2016: 30th overall + '17 2nd (ANA) for Andersen (TOR)
2015: 21st overall (OTT) for Lehner + Legwand (BUF)
2015: 15th overall + two 2nd (BOS) for D. Hamilton (CGY)
2015: 13th overall + C. Miller + M. Jones (BOS) for Lucic (LAK)
2015: 16th overall + 2nd (NYI) for G. Reinhart (EDM)
2014: 24th overall + Sbisa, Bonino, 3rd (VAN) for Kesler + 3rd (ANA)
2014: 10th overall + Silfverberg + Noesen (ANA) for Ryan (OTT)
2013: 9th overall (VAN) for Schneider (NJD)
2013: 16th overall (BUF) + Hackett + J. Larsson for Pominville + 4th (MIN)
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
I had to dig through a lot of old threads, but I found this which I typed up back in 2018:

Going back to 2005, these are the trades I could find of teams trading up solely using picks:

2017: 26th (DAL) for 29th + 70th (CHI)
2016: 26th (STL) for 28th + 87th (WSH)
2016: 18th + 3rd (WPG) for 22nd + 2nd (PHI)
2016: 16th + Datsyuk* (ARI) for 20th + 2nd (DET)
2016: 11th (OTT) for 12th + 3rd (NJD)
2015: 29th (CLB) for 33rd + 68th (TOR)
2015: 24th (PHI) for 29th + 61st (TOR)
2014: 20th + 179th (SJS) for 28th + 62nd (CHI)
2014: 28th (NYI) for 35th and 57th (TBL)
2013: 18th (SJS) for 20th + 58th (DET)
2012: 14th (BUF) for 21st + 42nd (CGY)
2011: 22nd (TOR) for 30th + 39th (ANA)
2011: 24th (OTT) for 35th + 48th (DET)
2010: 15th (LAK) for 19th + 59th (BOS)
2010: 22nd + 113th (MTL) for 27th + 57th (ARI)
2010: 30th (NYI) for 35th and 58th (CHI)
2009: 16th, 77th 182nd (MIN) for 12th (NYI)
2008: 5th (TOR) for 7th, 68th, 37th in 2009 (NYI)
2008: 7th (NSH) for 9th, 40th (NYI)
2007: 9th (SJS) for 13th, 44th, 87th in 2008 (STL)
2005: 8th (SJS) for 12th, 49th, 207th (ATL)
2005: 12th (NYR) fot 16th and 41st (ATL)


*Datsyuk already retired from the NHL, so this was just the cap hit traded to Arizona

And these are the teams who traded into the 1st (or up) with players involved:

2017: 7th overall + DeAngelo (NYR) for Raanta + Stepan (ARI)
2017: 31st overall + Sundqvist (STL) for Reaves + 2nd (PIT)
2017: 27th overall + cond. '18 1st + Lehtera (PHI) for B. Schenn (STL)
2016: 30th overall + '17 2nd (ANA) for Andersen (TOR)
2015: 21st overall (OTT) for Lehner + Legwand (BUF)
2015: 15th overall + two 2nd (BOS) for D. Hamilton (CGY)
2015: 13th overall + C. Miller + M. Jones (BOS) for Lucic (LAK)
2015: 16th overall + 2nd (NYI) for G. Reinhart (EDM)
2014: 24th overall + Sbisa, Bonino, 3rd (VAN) for Kesler + 3rd (ANA)
2014: 10th overall + Silfverberg + Noesen (ANA) for Ryan (OTT)
2013: 9th overall (VAN) for Schneider (NJD)
2013: 16th overall (BUF) + Hackett + J. Larsson for Pominville + 4th (MIN)
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That's a bit of work. If we're picking 13th there are no examples of a 3rd being added that got a team into the top 10. The closest is New Jersey moving up one spot to #11 in 2016 and no team has moved into the top ten just using draft picks since 2008. It's not to say 3rd rounders aren't valuable but they are iffy value and passing up on a higher tiered player to add a 3rd round pick is really not a smart way for a team to go. Getting into the top 10 this year I think is likely to cost our 1st (13th?) and either our other 1st or pretty good prospect (like say a Robertson) or young NHL player.
 
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eco's bones said:
That's a bit of work. If we're picking 13th there are no examples of a 3rd being added that got a team into the top 10. The closest is New Jersey moving up one spot to #11 in 2016 and no team has moved into the top ten just using draft picks since 2008. It's not to say 3rd rounders aren't valuable but they are iffy value and passing up on a higher tiered player to add a 3rd round pick is really not a smart way for a team to go. Getting into the top 10 this year I think is likely to cost our 1st (13th?) and either our other 1st or pretty good prospect (like say a Robertson) or young NHL player.
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Like I said, this was from 2 years ago when we had the 8th overall pick (pre lottery). It took me a lot of time to put it together at the time
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
I had to dig through a lot of old threads, but I found this which I typed up back in 2018:

Going back to 2005, these are the trades I could find of teams trading up solely using picks:

2017: 26th (DAL) for 29th + 70th (CHI)
2016: 26th (STL) for 28th + 87th (WSH)
2016: 18th + 3rd (WPG) for 22nd + 2nd (PHI)
2016: 16th + Datsyuk* (ARI) for 20th + 2nd (DET)
2016: 11th (OTT) for 12th + 3rd (NJD)
2015: 29th (CLB) for 33rd + 68th (TOR)
2015: 24th (PHI) for 29th + 61st (TOR)
2014: 20th + 179th (SJS) for 28th + 62nd (CHI)
2014: 28th (NYI) for 35th and 57th (TBL)
2013: 18th (SJS) for 20th + 58th (DET)
2012: 14th (BUF) for 21st + 42nd (CGY)
2011: 22nd (TOR) for 30th + 39th (ANA)
2011: 24th (OTT) for 35th + 48th (DET)
2010: 15th (LAK) for 19th + 59th (BOS)
2010: 22nd + 113th (MTL) for 27th + 57th (ARI)
2010: 30th (NYI) for 35th and 58th (CHI)
2009: 16th, 77th 182nd (MIN) for 12th (NYI)
2008: 5th (TOR) for 7th, 68th, 37th in 2009 (NYI)
2008: 7th (NSH) for 9th, 40th (NYI)
2007: 9th (SJS) for 13th, 44th, 87th in 2008 (STL)
2005: 8th (SJS) for 12th, 49th, 207th (ATL)
2005: 12th (NYR) fot 16th and 41st (ATL)


*Datsyuk already retired from the NHL, so this was just the cap hit traded to Arizona

And these are the teams who traded into the 1st (or up) with players involved:

2017: 7th overall + DeAngelo (NYR) for Raanta + Stepan (ARI)
2017: 31st overall + Sundqvist (STL) for Reaves + 2nd (PIT)
2017: 27th overall + cond. '18 1st + Lehtera (PHI) for B. Schenn (STL)
2016: 30th overall + '17 2nd (ANA) for Andersen (TOR)
2015: 21st overall (OTT) for Lehner + Legwand (BUF)
2015: 15th overall + two 2nd (BOS) for D. Hamilton (CGY)
2015: 13th overall + C. Miller + M. Jones (BOS) for Lucic (LAK)
2015: 16th overall + 2nd (NYI) for G. Reinhart (EDM)
2014: 24th overall + Sbisa, Bonino, 3rd (VAN) for Kesler + 3rd (ANA)
2014: 10th overall + Silfverberg + Noesen (ANA) for Ryan (OTT)
2013: 9th overall (VAN) for Schneider (NJD)
2013: 16th overall (BUF) + Hackett + J. Larsson for Pominville + 4th (MIN)
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Didnt the Rangers move up to get K. Miller using just picks?
 
Blue Men Group said:
Do you think a theoretical offer of Miller and the Carolina pick gets you into the top 10?
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The 13th and K'Andre could move us up several spots from the 13--at least 5 and maybe as much as 7. We'd land anywhere between 6 and 8 would be my guess......and I don't really want to give up Miller but it's doable and we have all kinds of great LD prospects--it's just that Miller might turn out the best. But still there's Lindgren, Rykov, Hajek, Robertson, Jones, Reunanen--we're pretty deep there.

IMO are best D prospect is a righty--that's Nils Lundkvist.

Come to think of it our 13th and Georgiev might be an interesting combination for a team looking to add a young goaltender. Keeping in mind there is the option for a team just to take Askarov and wait a year or two or three. But in this case the team would have Georgiev and the 13th. I don't think that Alex would move us up as much as K'Andre though but I do think Alex will be a legit NHL starter.
 
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Gauthier has the skills to be a complimentary piece on a top-6 line. If he develops well he could conceivably my be a 40-50 point power forward who shows more towards goals. He won’t be the one to make the pretty play or set up others consistently but he could be a 25 goal, 20a guy who drives the net, digs out pucks and finishes plays in and around the net. Honestly, he what the team needs more of handle why many were excited to bring him in around the deadline.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
He's a depth defenseman. Until he proves he's more than that, he's just that. Same with John Gilmour.
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bigdog16 said:
So you are comparing Joey Keane to John Gilmour. Thats like comparing Lias Andersson to Tyler Biggs
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I agree Keane has to show he can do it in this league, but dominating the AHL in your first pro season is different from dominating it at age 25.
 
We have to ask ourselves if Miller is a top-10 pick in this draft. Eh, I don't believe so. I'd have him mocked around 12-13. I'd love to move up in this draft, but I highly doubt Gorton will be able to do it this year. I'd settle for Gunler/Zary/Mercer at 13 and then scoop a Braden Schneider at 23. Heck, I may even "reach" for Peterka there.
 
I said basically from his first season on that Gilmour was a 4A player, who might get cups of coffee but would likely have to go to Europe to find steady employment in the top division. Always had to argue with the people that said he just needed a chance.

Keane, while I didn't like him nearly as much as some, definitely looks like he has an NHL career ahead of him. Just hard to tell if it's as a 6/7 or a 3/4.
 
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nyr2k2 said:
I said basically from his first season on that Gilmour was a 4A player, who might get cups of coffee but would likely have to go to Europe to find steady employment in the top division. Always had to argue with the people that said he just needed a chance.

Keane, while I didn't like him nearly as much as some, definitely looks like he has an NHL career ahead of him. Just hard to tell if it's as a 6/7 or a 3/4.
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This is fair, but 37 GP over three seasons…I dont know if thats enough to pronounce Gilmour dead to this league. Certainly he's at a crossroads, if he cant do it very very soon, he should save himself the time and money, move to Europe.
 
Avery16 said:
This is fair, but 37 GP over three seasons…I dont know if thats enough to pronounce Gilmour dead to this league. Certainly he's at a crossroads, if he cant do it very very soon, he should save himself the time and money, move to Europe.
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So far he has done exactly what I thought he would. He got two cups of coffee here, and played a small amount of games with Buffalo while otherwise being a healthy scratch--and then going back to the AHL. He's going to be 27 in a week. The odds of him figuring out how to play defense and sticking in the NHL for the first time at 27 are very remote. Again, I'm not saying he's dead in the water as far as an NHL player, but so far this is exactly how I though it would go for it.
 
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