Actual data says that he hasn't slowed down.
This isn't one of those subjective things either. They track this stuff.
Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)
- Thread starter Leonardo87
- Start date
Actual data says that he hasn't slowed down.
This isn't one of those subjective things either. They track this stuff.
bleedblue94
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2004
- 9,547
- 10,200
Sorry but legit questions about the data.
Is the speed you are referencing max speed bursts or average speed?
I see fox show it in bursts but on the day to day that is where the eye test says slower overall. Wondering if the data matches that or if it's bursts only?
I posted data last week that has Fox among the slowest skaters in the league. Has he “slowed down” as in become less effective? I don’t know. Probably not by all the metrics folks use to measure and justify these assessments. Has he slowed down in terms of speed from blue line to blue line? It feels very difficult to make a case that he has not lost at least half a step, that was already precious to begin with.
TominNC
Registered User
Boris Zubov
No relation to Sergei, Joe
I think part of the issue which has been overlooked is the league has figured out how to defend him. He appeared to be more elusive his first few years & now when he's pressured he doesn't seem to be able to escape in his own end.
Having a better partner would certainly ease the burden on him, but I do think some of the criticism he's received, from this board & in other places, has been warranted.
bleedblue94
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2004
- 9,547
- 10,200
Well the other part is that this entire board has basically been saying that he looks slower since the knee or knee. I don't feel like it's just a negative segment of posters, it feels universal so I'm curious what data he has that says otherwise
will1066
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2008
- 49,275
- 69,629
Semin would bongo drum zibanejad's head in rhythm to zibanejad's disco beats
Last edited:
This is top speed.
I don't think they track average speed (at least publicly) but I don't think it really makes sense to do so. Different players play different style games.
If a D has a high average speed I can tell you that they're probably carrying the puck up ice a bunch. There aren't many of those guys in this league (at least guys who are good at it.) One of the reasons why I think Schaefer is a clear cut #1 in the upcoming draft, dude is an exit/entry machine and he's got the hands to match.
Exhibit A:
It's a great skill to have in your tool kit (and frankly, one I think we could desperately use) but hardly a necessity. Makar is bar none the best puck rushing D in the league but he's got his warts too - Thats a player who has generally been terrible at defense the last few years and has been average or worse every year of his career except the one year he won the Norris.
Got off topic a bit but back to Fox: His bursts have always tracked below average. He's not rushing the puck up ice and we don't want him to, it wouldn't go anywhere. He passing pushes transition and thats fine, he's very good at it.
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
- 24,599
- 27,194
bleedblue94
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2004
- 9,547
- 10,200
See I disagree with the last part. When everyone knows a player is going to pass them the passing lanes dry up. We see it in offensive structure all the time. A playmaker needs to shoot on occasion to keep the other team honest. Fox aggregate is so slow it isn't a threat. I do understand what you mean about his value being as a distributor, but with the roster construction who does he distribute to that attacks with speed, chytil? Just don't think you pay what he's getting for only passing a in my view below average defending. We all know his skills are in a specific lane but it's still frustrating.
eco's bones
Registered User
Rico Fata and Emerson Etem are examples of guys who could skate really really fast. Neither of them became a good NHL hockey player. Michael Grabner another speed demon but a very average NHL player. Gretzky was a very good skater but he wasn't the fastest guy. Fox is a good skater....not the fastest guy. Just because you can fly doesn't make you a great player. Gabriel Perreault has great edges but isn't a speed demon either. If this is a debate going forward I wonder what some people are going to think of him. Again Othmann is not the fastest guy either. There are different elements that each player brings. You don't want just slower guys but there are some guys whose hockey IQ is just outstanding. Gretzky was one. Fox and Panarin have that and it looks to me like Perreault has it too.
JimmyG89
Registered User
- May 1, 2010
- 9,974
- 8,732
It's something I don't understand. Okay, the GM made moves you didn't like. Guess what, sometimes you don't like your boss because you don't see what they've been given. Drury was told to put together a winner. He needed to cut dead weight to do that.
It's like the people you get along with great at work get fired and you're trying to understand why. Little did you know, they f***ing suck as an employee and can't do their job, and are being overpaid to do that job.
I mean, outside of someone being an absolute douche, most players that a team wants to get rid of aren't pulling their weight based on what they are being paid, or they suck. These guys have to know that.
And what's worse is these guys have been on other teams. I don't think it's the young guys being like this, cause they're the ones trying.
You can either get angry or get upset. They've chosen to get upset and it's tanking a season away when the East stinks and is ripe for the taking.
It's like the people you get along with great at work get fired and you're trying to understand why. Little did you know, they f***ing suck as an employee and can't do their job, and are being overpaid to do that job.
I mean, outside of someone being an absolute douche, most players that a team wants to get rid of aren't pulling their weight based on what they are being paid, or they suck. These guys have to know that.
And what's worse is these guys have been on other teams. I don't think it's the young guys being like this, cause they're the ones trying.
You can either get angry or get upset. They've chosen to get upset and it's tanking a season away when the East stinks and is ripe for the taking.
eco's bones
Registered User
Gustafsson's a non fighter. It's his first fight ever. That's not really impressive IMO on Frederic's part.
If that were the case that would be reflected in other areas. He's still driving the f*** out of offense for this team. With the passing, I'm talking strictly about getting out of his own end in driving transition, not what he does in the OZ.
If there IS a legitimate criticism of his game this year, it's that he's shooting less. He's been close to a 2 shot per game guy the last few years, he's under 1.5 right now. The 0 goals for in how ever many games its been is a statistical anomaly that will correct itself in time (so were the 17 that he scored last year for that matter) but he's probably in his own head a bit there but he's always been a bit guilty of overpassing. None of that really has to do with foot speed though.
There are ways to free him up a bit but those points have been beaten to death in here so I'll spare you from having to read them again.
Yeah jumping a non fighter in a game that you're losing by 7 is not what the Rangers need more of.
DanielBrassard
It's all so tiresome
He’s actually not shooting less, his shot rate/60 is higher than it was from 2021-2023. For some reason shots on goal are way down all over the league, for every team. So just looking at shots on goal is not painting an accurate picture.
BBKers
Registered User
This Kumbaya BS needs to end. Now. Get on board or get flogged and tossed down the River, go to Pitcairn if you want to commit mutiny. Are you playing for fans that pay your salary or your bruised v*ginal egos?
Julian Gauthier great skater and not a great NHL career. Former 1st round bust. Speed and skating is great but hockey IQ is just as important
Takeahnase
Registered User
I found footage of Mika’s summer workout routine. Turns out he was the one rallying the boys for an early, daily cardio session. Probably needs to incorporate some weights next summer, though.
94leetch
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2022
- 313
- 375
RangerBoy
Dolan sucks!!!
The funny part is that the players don't want to leave. Either move on or leave. These guys want it both ways. This stuff started last summer. We all thought the players would move on and stop stewing over Goodrow being waived or how the situation was handled. Then Trouba and his limited no trade. Brooks has said and written the Rangers players were upset in training camp and are still annoyed. Trouba was traded and the players in the room don't like how that situation was handled with the ultimatum of accept one of these two trades or it's waivers.
They complain but they like playing for the Rangers because they are treated very well. They don't want to leave.
Brooks mentioned putting everyone without a no movement clause on the market. He mentioned a few exceptions. Lafreniere. Cuylle. Schneider. Even his boy Kreider. The Rangers have not won with him.
Quick seems like someone who would complain. He had his experience with being traded to Columbus. I think LA didn't tell him about the trade in advance of the trade. Quick was furious.
RangerBoy
Dolan sucks!!!
Vince is the dumbest motherf***er. He mentioned the vibes in the Rangers room are bad. Let's add Yanni Gourde and Emily says Gourde is not the same player he was in TB.
Greg/Puck Daddy mentioned on Marek's show yesterday that the vibes are bad.
The Rangers players are mad.
Emily mentioned the Rangers are looking at the 2026 free market. She mentioned Jack Eichel is the guy the Rangers want. No interest in Quenneville.
Eichel is the new Brad Richards from 2011.
Gordon Bombay
HFNYR Head Coach
- Oct 13, 2006
- 2,714
- 3,414
Maybe Brooks needs to tell these guys everyone hates you, you're the most unlikeable Rangers team since the likes of Quintal and Kamensky.
I seriously cannot believe this is over 2 terrible hockey players. You don't like how your boss runs business? Good, you can leave. Mika waive your NMC and have fun in Calgary. I hear they have mechanical horses out there.
Also, Brooks brought up how Mika doesn't handle the outside noise. If that's the case this is the exact situation where you lower his minutes, lower his high pressure situations until he finds it again.
I seriously cannot believe this is over 2 terrible hockey players. You don't like how your boss runs business? Good, you can leave. Mika waive your NMC and have fun in Calgary. I hear they have mechanical horses out there.
Also, Brooks brought up how Mika doesn't handle the outside noise. If that's the case this is the exact situation where you lower his minutes, lower his high pressure situations until he finds it again.
