Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[leetch99]

Good we can trade them this deadline then


So here’s the thing. I was at the game yesterday. I knew it would be bad, but it looked even worse live. It was honestly shocking.

I thought it looked like a typical Ranger /Cane game....I did not see anything different from the last 4 years playing them. Goalies always needed to stand on their heads to steal a win .

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

He won't be helping you in the playoffs, he plays for Anaheim.

But honestly, do you really even watch him play? Or is this more of a reputation based concern? I have no reason to believe Zegras will disappear when the going gets tough, there's really no evidence of that. The only "big games" we've seen him play in were at the WJC and he rose to a whole new level. He's actually a pretty chippy player, always in the middle of shit, I don't think he'll run and hide when the temperature rises.

It's hard to get people to understand this - but you do realize all the crap about Zegras is completely overblown and mostly comes from uninformed sources who just despise the kid? The locker room cancer, one dimensional, trick shot artist bullshit - all massively exaggerated. None of that comes out of Anaheim. His teammates love him, he's always quick to have their backs and he's engaged every game. The red flags were never nearly as red as haters want them to be. His defensive game is massively improved because it did need a lot of work and now he's figuring out how to couple that with production. He was never a complete black hole, just a scrawny young offensive minded kid on literally one of the worst defensive clubs of all time.

It's ironic that McTavish received all this praise as a two way player, really based upon that one huge defensive play in the WJC. I would trust Zegras on the ice protecting a lead late in the Ducks zone, easily before McTavish right now. I'd be quicker to trade McT in a package for star talent as well.

Welcome to discussion boards, where people discuss hypothetical situations such as trading for players not currently on their favorite team. I think you clicked the wrong team's board.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Welcome to discussion boards, where people discuss hypothetical situations such as trading for players not currently on their favorite team. I think you clicked the wrong team's board.

Lol that part was just a little (unnecessary) sarcasm to suggest that the Ducks really have no reason to move him. They are finally showing improvement and he's been one of the biggest positives next to Dostal.

 

[bhamill]

He’s getting traded for Zegras.

Trading a player who is playing the game the way we WANT this team to play for a guy who is doing the opposite? A guy playing physically and playing great defense for a one dimensional sucker. Terrible move. Plus Kakko is even outscoring Zegras this year.

 

[eco's bones]

Expansion has watered down the talent level in the NHL. Some of these teams have really bad rosters. Two teams entered the NHL since 2017. The NHL is discussing more expansion in the future. Where are the players coming from? The NHL expanded in the 1990's and the Russians came over to supply players for the NHL. The Canadians have stopped producing goaltenders.

I like Vegas for Kreider. It seems like a move Vegas makes. They haven't replaced Marchessault. Stone hurts his back again and Vegas frees up the money from LTIR. Stone is on IR right now. Minor injury.

The Rangers are playing the Flyers today. Joel Farabee. He needs a change of scenery. His ice-time is down. His relationship with Torts is not good. $5M cap hit for three more seasons after this season. Farabee has produced offensively with no power play time. Drury and Lilley have the BU ties.

If I remember Kreider and Torts had issues. Kreider didn't really begin to break out until AV came along. Now it might be different now between Torts and Kreider but I also don't see a whole lot that Chris would actually be able to give the Flyers on the ice. This year and next year traded as a rental. It's almost inevitable as the Flyers IMO have some years to go before they're a good team again. Farabee might end up with a team like the Sabres---I think the Flyers would rather younger assets to build up their team with.

If we do move Kreider it's probably to a playoff bound team and it might be a team like the Golden Knights. I don't think Boston (a favorite of those speculating) is a great fit for him either and I'm not sure Boston could put together a return that the Rangers would like.

 

[eco's bones]

Trading a player who is playing the game the way we WANT this team to play for a guy who is doing the opposite? A guy playing physically and playing great defense for a one dimensional sucker. Terrible move. Plus Kakko is even outscoring Zegras this year.

Zegras has loads of talent but he has to put a more coherent NHL game together. It's an issue sometimes with these bottom feeding teams. They stick a kid in the NHL before he has an idea about defensive responsibility to see if he can run up some points and then if he does the other parts of his game don't get addressed or addressed enough.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

says a person who wants something for nothing

you obviously have no concept as to the degree of difficulty here in moving Zib, let alone w/o retaining

short term we can stopgap w/Juulsen btw
yes it's a downgrade but JTMiller + Raaty more than offset

Go ahead and lay out what your defense looks like after you trade one of the 3 good defensemen we have for Noah Juulsen, should be entertaining.

Zib is more than difficult to move, all of this fantasy that he'll wave his clause is just that, fantasy.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If Miller deserves a pass of sorts.....then Lindgren should as well . He has had to work under the same D coach plus he has had a broken jaw and then missed part camp? and played with the facemask . I still think he can play good enough D on any team with the right partner and system . Even Schneider and Fox have struggled this season ......it must be the system . Time for Drury to cut Buffalo ties in Housley .

No he doesn’t.

He was our worst defenseman by a lot last year and that has continued. We can discuss whether or not he should have played with a shield (I don’t think he should have) but he’s sucked with out the shield too.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Zegras has loads of talent but he has to put a more coherent NHL game together. It's an issue sometimes with these bottom feeding teams. They stick a kid in the NHL before he has an idea about defensive responsibility to see if he can run up some points and then if he does the other parts of his game don't get addressed or addressed enough.

Yeah and when David Quinn was trying to teach young players to play "the right way" at the expense of points we complained.

 

[GAGLine]

He won't be helping you in the playoffs, he plays for Anaheim.

But honestly, do you really even watch him play? Or is this more of a reputation based concern? I have no reason to believe Zegras will disappear when the going gets tough, there's really no evidence of that. The only "big games" we've seen him play in were at the WJC and he rose to a whole new level. He's actually a pretty chippy player, always in the middle of shit, I don't think he'll run and hide when the temperature rises.

It's hard to get people to understand this - but you do realize all the crap about Zegras is completely overblown and mostly comes from uninformed sources who just despise the kid? The locker room cancer, one dimensional, trick shot artist bullshit - all massively exaggerated. None of that comes out of Anaheim. His teammates love him, he's always quick to have their backs and he's engaged every game. The red flags were never nearly as red as haters want them to be. His defensive game is massively improved because it did need a lot of work and now he's figuring out how to couple that with production. He was never a complete black hole, just a scrawny young offensive minded kid on literally one of the worst defensive clubs of all time.

It's ironic that McTavish received all this praise as a two way player, really based upon that one huge defensive play in the WJC. I would trust Zegras on the ice protecting a lead late in the Ducks zone, easily before McTavish right now. I'd be quicker to trade McT in a package for star talent as well.

First of all, I know he plays for Anaheim. The fact that you posted about him in the Rangers' roster building thread suggests you think he would be a good trade target for the Rangers, and hence, my response.

My apologies, though, if you were only hyping up Zegras and accidentally did so on the wrong forum. In that case, neither you nor Zegras will have to worry about the playoffs any time soon.

Second, good for him that he has 7 points in his last 6 games. He still only has 10 points in 21 games this year, and his underlying numbers are bad. I don't need to watch him regularly to know he isn't likely to be effective in the playoffs.

You obviously disagree, which is fine. You're welcome to your opinion. But that then begs the question as to why you've come to our board to hype him up. If you're so happy with him, keep him, and maybe someday when you make the playoffs, we'll see which of us is right.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Zegras has loads of talent but he has to put a more coherent NHL game together. It's an issue sometimes with these bottom feeding teams. They stick a kid in the NHL before he has an idea about defensive responsibility to see if he can run up some points and then if he does the other parts of his game don't get addressed or addressed enough.

He has shown great improvements in that regard over the last two seasons, and is playing the best overall hockey of his life right now, as he starts to recapture his production along with a much better overall game. And again, these reports or concerns about his character and defensive game were massively exaggerated due to how much people hate him or want to be right about him being overhyped. He broke into the league as a twerpy offensive minded player, on the worst defensive team of the salary cap era. Of course he wasn't suited to helping fix their issues.

Not trying to sound argumentative, but genuinely curious - when you make a statement like this about Zegras, is it based on watching any Ducks games or are you just restating the narrative as you've heard it from others? Hockey twitter and HF wanted this player to be failing way worse than he ever actually has been - don't let their hate help form your opinion.

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

Yeah and when David Quinn was trying to teach young players to play "the right way" at the expense of points we complained.

Quinn also had no clue what he was doing in the NHL. "Don't stickhandle" has to be one of the more ridiculous things these players have heard.

 

[leetch99]

No he doesn’t.

He was our worst defenseman by a lot last year and that has continued. We can discuss whether or not he should have played with a shield (I don’t think he should have) but he’s sucked with out the shield too.

Every team has to have a "worst" Dman ...that is a given . At the current time we have 6 .....Housley . The fall guy flavor changes almost every season from Rozival to Staal to Lindgren. I would at least wait until the deadline.....there will be plenty of teams wanting him which might get us our best return .

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Every team has to have a "worst" Dman ...that is a given . At the current time we have 6 .....Housley . The fall guy flavor changes almost every season from Rozival to Staal to Lindgren. I would at least wait until the deadline.....there will be plenty of teams wanting him which might get us our best return .

Not every team has a gap between 5 and 6 like the rangers do and most teams don’t play their worst guy in the top 4 (and sometimes in the top 2!)

There wouldn’t be as much noise if he were deployed as a bottom pair D who you know isn’t very good but gives you 12–14 minutes a night making < 2 million but he plays more than that and makes mores than that.

If the goal is to be a seller at the deadline then yeah, keep him. If you want to right this ship, you need to move and replace him asap.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

First of all, I know he plays for Anaheim. The fact that you posted about him in the Rangers' roster building thread suggests you think he would be a good trade target for the Rangers, and hence, my response.

My apologies, though, if you were only hyping up Zegras and accidentally did so on the wrong forum. In that case, neither you nor Zegras will have to worry about the playoffs any time soon.

Second, good for him that he has 7 points in his last 6 games. He still only has 10 points in 21 games this year, and his underlying numbers are bad. I don't need to watch him regularly to know he isn't likely to be effective in the playoffs.

You obviously disagree, which is fine. You're welcome to your opinion. But that then begs the question as to why you've come to our board to hype him up. If you're so happy with him, keep him, and maybe someday when you make the playoffs, we'll see which of us is right.

I noticed you guys were discussing a Ducks player and thought I would set the record straight a bit. It's an open forum and I'm free to respectfully chime in wherever I like. It's not about hype, I have no interest in seeing him moved.

From my perspective it's downright odd that he's such a point of contention on your trade board right now, partly because there's so little motivation to move him from our end and also because I agree to some end with your point that he's likely wouldn't be the top priority of a contending team. It stands to reason you guys would be pursuing more proven veterans unless doing a full tear down. He's a much better fit continuing to grow on a young improving Ducks team. That said, he was never as bad or problematic as some here are suggesting, that talk gets way out of hand based on emotion and not fact. People who haven't watched Zegras play two minutes of hockey, will go on about how bad he is because they despise him.

Much respected dual Ducks/Rangers citizen @Leonardo87 I'm sure would generally concur with all of this

 

[Leonardo87]

Much respected dual Ducks/Rangers citizen @Leonardo87 I'm sure would generally concur with all of this

I don’t engage much in the trade discussions. Right now between the Zegras chatter and Kreider chatter I’m just keeping to myself and enjoying the games.

Those are two of my favorite players , on my teams now. So rather just not get into the discussion.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I don’t engage much in the trade discussions. Right now between the Zegras chatter and Kreider chatter I’m just keeping to myself and enjoying the games.

Those are two of my favorite players , on my teams now. So rather just not get into the discussion.

Gee thanks for the help haha no fair enough

 

[Boris Zubov]

First we had Webster. Now we have Siddi's obsessive man crush on Zib, & god forbid we get Zegras, we'll have this guy over-hyping Zegras.

 

[RangerBoy]

I don't disagree with the Rangers team construction discussed in the video.

Mika and Panarin are both right-handed players. Similar players. Not very physical. Mika is bigger than Panarin but he isn't a very physical player.

Fox. I like Fox. However, he is smaller D. His playoff performances haven't been great. Does he wear down during the season and play on fumes in the playoffs? He is not Brian Leetch who won the Conn Smythe. Leetch was terrific. I remember Fox got injured in 21-22 during the season. Upper body/shoulder injury. He missed a few games. He seemed to be less than 100% for the rest of the season. Last season, Fox was kneed by Nick Jensen in game 4 against Washington and he was severely limited the way. The Rangers lost. Again.

Is Fox really a #1 D? Norris Trophy winner. I know. However, Fox is MIA in the playoffs.

The Rangers have major decisions to make here. Not just a few cosmetic moves.

 

[NYR Viper]

I don't disagree with the Rangers team construction discussed in the video.

Mika and Panarin are both right-handed players. Similar players. Not very physical. Mika is bigger than Panarin but he isn't a very physical player.

Fox. I like Fox. However, he is smaller D. His playoff performances haven't been great. Does he wear down during the season and play on fumes in the playoffs? He is not Brian Leetch who won the Conn Smythe. Leetch was terrific. I remember Fox got injured in 21-22 during the season. Upper body/shoulder injury. He missed a few games. He seemed to be less than 100% for the rest of the season. Last season, Fox was kneed by Nick Jensen in game 4 against Washington and he was severely limited the way. The Rangers lost. Again.

Is Fox really a #1 D? Norris Trophy winner. I know. However, Fox is MIA in the playoffs.

The Rangers have major decisions to make here. Not just a few cosmetic moves.

I The think it’s fair to say the Fox can’t carry the entire defense himself although I’d argue that’s literally impossible to do for any player in the world. The issue has been surrounding him with competent players to offload some responsibility from him

 

[Raspewtin]

I don't disagree with the Rangers team construction discussed in the video.

Mika and Panarin are both right-handed players. Similar players. Not very physical. Mika is bigger than Panarin but he isn't a very physical player.

Fox. I like Fox. However, he is smaller D. His playoff performances haven't been great. Does he wear down during the season and play on fumes in the playoffs? He is not Brian Leetch who won the Conn Smythe. Leetch was terrific. I remember Fox got injured in 21-22 during the season. Upper body/shoulder injury. He missed a few games. He seemed to be less than 100% for the rest of the season. Last season, Fox was kneed by Nick Jensen in game 4 against Washington and he was severely limited the way. The Rangers lost. Again.

Is Fox really a #1 D? Norris Trophy winner. I know. However, Fox is MIA in the playoffs.

The Rangers have major decisions to make here. Not just a few cosmetic moves.

This is wrong. Fallacy. Straight up incorrect. The board literally made this shit up.

Fox is elite in the playoffs and literally always has been. He didn't have an amazing year last year, that's it. He's still near a PPG and strong possession player on a team that consistently shits itself at ES.

 

[Kupo]

Zegras is Ass.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

First we had Webster. Now we have Siddi's obsessive man crush on Zib, & god forbid we get Zegras, we'll have this guy over-hyping Zegras.

Lol it's hardly hype, just pointing out that he gets quite excessively dragged for what he is (edit - see post above, that's just uncalled for). I've never expected him to become a true elite player in the league or anything.

 

[Boris Zubov]

This is wrong. Fallacy. Straight up incorrect. The board literally made this shit up.

Fox is elite in the playoffs and literally always has been. He didn't have an amazing year last year, that's it. He's still near a PPG and strong possession player on a team that consistently shits itself at ES.

I'd say he's been somewhere in the middle. He's not MIA in the playoffs, but he hasn't been elite. Last year he was hurt & through no fault of his own he was extremely pedestrian. The Devils series in '23 his performance in the series was a microcosm of what the team did, he looked great in the first two game piled up a bunch of assists, but was up in down the rest of the series including a horrendous Game 7. He was complete dogshit in that game.

The one year he was excellent in the playoffs was '22. He was great in every round.

 

[Boris Zubov]

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