Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[Savant]

You pull that bullshit and you become less of a destination for good players.

No it doesn’t. Big market original six teams are immune from that. It’s basically the only advantage they have anymore. People will still come.

 

[nyr2k2]

No it doesn’t. Big market original six teams are immune from that. It’s basically the only advantage they have anymore. People will still come.

I remember arguing during the Redden situation that it would hurt us down the line. Eventually it became apparent to me that for an O6 team or other established franchise, if you are based in a place where players want to play and--most importantly--offer the fat contracts, guys will come.

There are of course things around the fringes that can make you more or less attractive in terms of how you do business, but at the end of the day it's about money and where your team is located. Fortunately for us, NYC is appealing to more guys than not, so we have that in our favor.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Not sure why anyone cares we're an original six team just leave it at big market.

 

[TominNC]

I remember arguing during the Redden situation that it would hurt us down the line. Eventually it became apparent to me that for an O6 team or other established franchise, if you are based in a place where players want to play and--most importantly--offer the fat contracts, guys will come.

There are of course things around the fringes that can make you more or less attractive in terms of how you do business, but at the end of the day it's about money and where your team is located. Fortunately for us, NYC is appealing to more guys than not, so we have that in our favor.

A big contract and a NMC.

 

[bernmeister]

So you want to make the defense even worse? Bold strategy Cotton

says a person who wants something for nothing

you obviously have no concept as to the degree of difficulty here in moving Zib, let alone w/o retaining

short term we can stopgap w/Juulsen btw
yes it's a downgrade but JTMiller + Raaty more than offset

 

[nyr2k2]

A big contract and a NMC.

Well, sure, that too. But everyone gets an NMC nowadays. I just looked and of the top 22 players by cap hit, 19 have an NMC. Dahlin and Petersson have NMC's beginning next year, so 21 of 22. The only one without an NMC is Doughty, who had one on the front end of his contract that converted to an M-NTC on the back end.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Drury scouting for his next Blais I’m sure

 

[Savant]

I remember arguing during the Redden situation that it would hurt us down the line. Eventually it became apparent to me that for an O6 team or other established franchise, if you are based in a place where players want to play and--most importantly--offer the fat contracts, guys will come.

There are of course things around the fringes that can make you more or less attractive in terms of how you do business, but at the end of the day it's about money and where your team is located. Fortunately for us, NYC is appealing to more guys than not, so we have that in our favor.

Yup. And if Drury gets canned, you just gaslight him and say “oh the new GM isn’t like that/blah blah blah”

 

[RangersFan1994]

this is bitter but nec medicine that unloads zib, we can hope../

just heard Hronek out long term, so this is my prop which I put at the main board:

I had posted something at the Rs trade board re jt miller + for zib +++

now the Hronek injury creates a real urgency and a new dynamic

as we know, JT Miller is taking time off despite being productive and supposedly it is b'c he is at odds w/Elias Petterssen
Zib has lost it; not sure if it is concussions or what but he once had chemistry w/Kreider and it is now invisible
the thinking is if Swedes EP and Mika Z played together, it could work out and given this + VAN is a legit cup contender, MZ would waive

there is risk with either or 2 primary pieces, similarly priced 8.5 MZ and 8 per JTM.

there is more risk for VAN than NY so Rs have to compensate

RD Schneider is normally not available
howev, getting Miller for Zib, full pop both ways, and other benefits would be enuf to do this

Zib + Schneider + Jones (good skater upgrade on Erik B) + Vesey
for
Miller + Raty + Juulsen + a pick

thoughts?

----------------
this hurts but also we don't retain on zib here, so....

Lay off the crack

Drury scouting for his next Blais I’m sure

I won't be shocked if that is the return for Kreider if Drury trades him. Drury can't scout talent at any level. Signing Nemeth, Bonino, passing on Jack Drury in the draft. Awful talent evaluator

 

[RangerBoy]

Expansion has watered down the talent level in the NHL. Some of these teams have really bad rosters. Two teams entered the NHL since 2017. The NHL is discussing more expansion in the future. Where are the players coming from? The NHL expanded in the 1990's and the Russians came over to supply players for the NHL. The Canadians have stopped producing goaltenders.

I like Vegas for Kreider. It seems like a move Vegas makes. They haven't replaced Marchessault. Stone hurts his back again and Vegas frees up the money from LTIR. Stone is on IR right now. Minor injury.

The Rangers are playing the Flyers today. Joel Farabee. He needs a change of scenery. His ice-time is down. His relationship with Torts is not good. $5M cap hit for three more seasons after this season. Farabee has produced offensively with no power play time. Drury and Lilley have the BU ties.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I would love to see Zegras on a less dysfunctional team. Remember how popular he was here during the draft?

Zegras has been playing through the best stretch of his career of late. 7 points in six games with at least a point in five of those six, he was snakebitten before that but one could see the points were coming the way he's been creating chances. Huge improvement on the defensive side and much stronger on the puck. Very positive signs right now. Look at Z whooping it up after he silenced the Seattle crowd the other night, the kid is feeling it right now.



The Ducks have been much better as well. Obviously not going to start contending overnight, but way more competitive on a nightly basis, no longer feels like games are over before they've started. We are at least to the point where the middle of the road teams like the Kraken (who we just split back to back games with) don't seem easily superior anymore. It's a refreshing change from three or four straight years of complete futility.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Lay off the crack


I won't be shocked if that is the return for Kreider if Drury trades him. Drury can't scout talent at any level. Signing Nemeth, Bonino, passing on Jack Drury in the draft. Awful talent evaluator

Passing Jack Drury in the draft? You make it sound like he passed on Mario Lemieux. Give me a break.

 

[GAGLine]

Zegras has been playing through the best stretch of his career of late.

I honestly don't care how much he produces. I don't see him as a player that will help us in the playoffs.

 

[RangerBoy]

EF discusses the Rangers on the first segment. The Rangers underlying numbers stink. Nothing new.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I honestly don't care how much he produces. I don't see him as a player that will help us in the playoffs.

He won't be helping you in the playoffs, he plays for Anaheim.

But honestly, do you really even watch him play? Or is this more of a reputation based concern? I have no reason to believe Zegras will disappear when the going gets tough, there's really no evidence of that. The only "big games" we've seen him play in were at the WJC and he rose to a whole new level. He's actually a pretty chippy player, always in the middle of shit, I don't think he'll run and hide when the temperature rises.

It's hard to get people to understand this - but you do realize all the crap about Zegras is completely overblown and mostly comes from uninformed sources who just despise the kid? The locker room cancer, one dimensional, trick shot artist bullshit - all massively exaggerated. None of that comes out of Anaheim. His teammates love him, he's always quick to have their backs and he's engaged every game. The red flags were never nearly as red as haters want them to be. His defensive game is massively improved because it did need a lot of work and now he's figuring out how to couple that with production. He was never a complete black hole, just a scrawny young offensive minded kid on literally one of the worst defensive clubs of all time.

It's ironic that McTavish received all this praise as a two way player, really based upon that one huge defensive play in the WJC. I would trust Zegras on the ice protecting a lead late in the Ducks zone, easily before McTavish right now. I'd be quicker to trade McT in a package for star talent as well.

 

[Vitto79]

No it doesnt. He finally seems to be breaking out and now might be converted into a center. With Chytil likely not going to be in our long term plans we need a center.

If Chytil gets hurt sure but regardless of what Kakko does he’s always going to be seen as a 2nd overall disappointment.

If you can get a good haul he’s gone

 

[Matt Rentfree]

I would love to see Zegras on a less dysfunctional team. Remember how popular he was here during the draft?

I hope you're not suggesting that the Rangers are less dysfunctional than Anaheim given the drama that's been playing out this season.

 

[Vitto79]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

Zegras is Definitely not the answer

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I hope you're not suggesting that the Rangers are less dysfunctional than Anaheim given the drama that's been playing out this season.

1 season vs like 10.

 

[UnparalledPark]

this is bitter but nec medicine that unloads zib, we can hope../

just heard Hronek out long term, so this is my prop which I put at the main board:

I had posted something at the Rs trade board re jt miller + for zib +++

now the Hronek injury creates a real urgency and a new dynamic

as we know, JT Miller is taking time off despite being productive and supposedly it is b'c he is at odds w/Elias Petterssen
Zib has lost it; not sure if it is concussions or what but he once had chemistry w/Kreider and it is now invisible
the thinking is if Swedes EP and Mika Z played together, it could work out and given this + VAN is a legit cup contender, MZ would waive

there is risk with either or 2 primary pieces, similarly priced 8.5 MZ and 8 per JTM.

there is more risk for VAN than NY so Rs have to compensate

RD Schneider is normally not available
howev, getting Miller for Zib, full pop both ways, and other benefits would be enuf to do this

Zib + Schneider + Jones (good skater upgrade on Erik B) + Vesey
for
Miller + Raty + Juulsen + a pick

thoughts?

----------------
this hurts but also we don't retain on zib here, so....

 

[Matt Rentfree]

1 season vs like 10.

Even if that were true (which it isn't - Lias Andersson fiasco/ Vitali Kravtsov fiasco/Tom Wilson letter to the league fiasco), the only thing that matters is what's happening NOW. And right now, this team is as dysfunctional as it gets.

 

[bernmeister]

Expansion has watered down the talent level in the NHL. Some of these teams have really bad rosters. Two teams entered the NHL since 2017. The NHL is discussing more expansion in the future. Where are the players coming from? The NHL expanded in the 1990's and the Russians came over to supply players for the NHL. The Canadians have stopped producing goaltenders.

I like Vegas for Kreider. It seems like a move Vegas makes. They haven't replaced Marchessault. Stone hurts his back again and Vegas frees up the money from LTIR. Stone is on IR right now. Minor injury.

The Rangers are playing the Flyers today. Joel Farabee. He needs a change of scenery. His ice-time is down. His relationship with Torts is not good. $5M cap hit for three more seasons after this season. Farabee has produced offensively with no power play time. Drury and Lilley have the BU ties.

Flyer crap for our crap is a discussion
not for Kreider
worth more if he stays
commands more than that if traded

If Chytil gets hurt sure but regardless of what Kakko does he’s always going to be seen as a 2nd overall disappointment.

If you can get a good haul he’s gone

like anyone, if there is too much to turn down THAT is overriding
but "a good haul" is not enuf

 

[Lion Hound]

View attachment 937217

What is this Madness?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Even if that were true (which it isn't - Lias Andersson fiasco/ Vitali Kravtsov fiasco/Tom Wilson letter to the league fiasco), the only thing that matters is what's happening NOW. And right now, this team is as dysfunctional as it gets.

I'm as down on this team as anyone but it's 20 games.

 

[leetch99]

It's unreasonable bc it expects him to be perfect. No one is perfect and that includes Igor, but by almost any metric he is the best in the league and has been consistently there for a number of years. This isn't a small sample size. He is elite. People point to a bad goal or game here or there and use that to act like anti niemi would be a suitable replacement or act like we would use the money in a better way. We won't. The org committed to its structure of the roster and slotted players where it wanted. That won't magically change with some more cap and a worse goalie, and they literally have no other option long term in net, and no assets to trade for a goalie (quick is an elite backup, but he is a backup at his age).

The issue with Igor is the same that happened with henke and even Richter during the dark years. Having a top goalie on a badish or even average team forces the team to push forward bc the goalie drags the team up. If Igor wasn't a thing and Georgiev was here this team would have been drafting in the lottery for years, and the same people complaining about paying Igor now would be complaining that nyr needs a top goalie to not suck.

Igor has been a luxury, and one that almost this entire board complained about when he signed his last contract bc you all felt he was overpaid. The org has had elite goaltending for years at half the cost of what it should be and the org still hasn't been able to build a good team that can compete 5v5, and now some of you want to dump Igor, replace him with a worse goalie that would make the same money Igor is making now, and somehow think the org is going to build a proper roster based on decades of evidence showing you all that the priority is marketability over championship roster construction (no, they are not the same). This org needs a culling, it needs the entitlement removed. Igor is not one of the entitled on this roster, if he was he would be throwing his teammates under the bus everyday for their awful play, especially when he is in the midst of his career payday contract negotiation.

People are targeting kreider and trouba but the biggest long term grenade is Mika (you know the guy that this board didn't want to risk losing to get eichel). They can't touch Mika bc of his contract (again handing out clauses to players who would sign here anyway bc NYC fits their off ice life), so they are attacking his BFF and threatening to trade him. If kreider is moved it is almost certainly only to piss Mika off and rattle him into considering accepting a trade as well after they take away his friend. For NYR to move kreider makes no sense based on their decades long history of marketability and the recent eyesore of watching an nyr staple in another jersey at the end of his career with henke. Kreider is most likely going to have his jersey retired (save the scoffs) with what he has done in historical nyr numbers, his longevity with the org, and the tremendous success the org has had at times while he has been here (no cup, but how many deep playoff runs, although mostly thanks to elite goaltending).

Drury tried to go at this core quietly this summer and rock it. They core used the media and shut their own GM down. Drury usually doesn't lose these one on one battles and he is scorned. He has been anti media since day one as shown by firing long time beloved staff that leaked anything. Yet suddenly he is actively going at his roster through the media with numerous reports of trade emails, players on the block, and potential letters being removed. This is an all out calamity right now of a gm that f***ed up by giving out nmc and ntc to players, locking in a roster with term contracts and no cap flexibility, and then thinking he would still be able to do what he wanted to them as contracts aged. The players stood up to their boss and he recognizes the entitlement of the core, yet through the org's own mistakes with the clauses he can't do anything about it without engaging the media machine and starting a public process against them that he will most likely lose.

That interview kreider did about his back was the exact same thing trouba did by suggesting he wouldn't report if traded. It was a strategic move to disengage trade interest from other teams through the media. Who the hell wants to trade for a mid 30 years old 5v5 black hole with a documented bad back? Kreider was scaring the league away from him bc he wants to stay w nyr. He only needs to scare half the league away from himself. Drury can try and negotiate deals all he wants but he's screwed bc of these clauses.

This year has the potential to turn into a circus and in some ways I think Drury is also making these attempts for change public so Dolan knows that Drury tried to trade two guys that were signed by gorton and that he couldn't trade them bc of the contract clauses. This summer I think it's reasonable to expect a quarter of this roster to be turned over with names like kreider, trouba, lindgren, Smith, kakko, vesey, and even Miller all gone (I actually think Miller needs housley gone before a determination is made on him, bc of nyr moves him and he connects with an actual good defense coach he should establish as an elite shutdown top 4 d man, but he has no idea what to do right now defensively like the rest of the roster but he's become the trendy whipping boy).

This season may become one that they write a book about. Instead of "Nightmare on 34th Street" this can be "The Country Club Strikes Back"

If Miller deserves a pass of sorts.....then Lindgren should as well . He has had to work under the same D coach plus he has had a broken jaw and then missed part camp? and played with the facemask . I still think he can play good enough D on any team with the right partner and system . Even Schneider and Fox have struggled this season ......it must be the system . Time for Drury to cut Buffalo ties in Housley .