Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[EdJovanovski]

Must be the best player ever playing 10 games a season and scoring close to 40 goals a season. The exaggeration and venom for this guy is pathetic.



I love to shit on woke people as much as anyone but I've literally never heard of "woke" used that way. What a weird thing to say.

Did you watch the video? He's facetiously using the term because that's sorta his "bit" but what he's talking about is that they don't have the attitude. They're a bunch of timid, good boys who are scared to ruffle feathers, no attitude, no swagger. They don't scream "New York". Like Hank for instance, he epitomized NYC. Same with Avery. We should buy low on Zegras, I feel like he was made for the bright lights of NY and is probably not motivated in Anaheim.

@13:00
There's the full context, they go on for a bit about the Rangers

 

[Mike in Houston]

He’s playing tonight?

He'll be a ghost tonight I'm sure.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Did you watch the video? He's facetiously using the term because that's sorta his "bit" but what he's talking about is that they don't have the attitude. They're a bunch of timid, good boys who are scared to ruffle feathers, no attitude, no swagger. They don't scream "New York". Like Hank for instance, he epitomized NYC. Same with Avery. We should buy low on Zegras, I feel like he was made for the bright lights of NY and is probably not motivated in Anaheim.

@13:00
There's the full context, they go on for a bit about the Rangers

You are obsessed with things irrelevant to actually winning.

 

[Vitto79]

He'll be a ghost tonight I'm sure.

Kreider ?
I mean the dude scored a ton the last few years and vs the canes scored one of the biggest goals in franchise history

 

[LOFIN]

He’s playing tonight?

nope

 

[Mike in Houston]

Kreider ?
I mean the dude scored a ton the last few years and vs the canes scored one of the biggest goals in franchise history

It's a joke . He's not playing.

 

[EdJovanovski]

You are obsessed with things irrelevant to actually winning.

Agree to disagree, I think what separates the winners from the losers is their attitude more than their talent

 

[eco's bones]

Not moving Kreider doesn't necessarily mean you look weak. It probably means you weren't getting an acceptable offer.

Not moving Trouba pretty much comes down to not being able to move him because no team wants to take on that salary without the Rangers retaining enough and adding whatever sweetener any given team would want which could be let's say Othmann or the 1st or even Schneider or whatever. It's one reason why moving him in the summer when he's got one year left is probably the optimal time where it begins to maybe not to cost so much to move him.

In any case whatever anyone's perception of Drury whether seeing him as weak or strong....his job is to make good moves and not worry about anyone else's perceptions of him which can change back and forth given time or events to come anyway. It's not static on one thing and you can't control what others think of you. Your job is your job is to do as well as you can and not worry about what others think when you do.

 

[BleedBlueNYR]

Too deep a rabbit hole. Plus minus is an antiquated metric and I wouldn't be surprised if it's phased out eventually. It's a yesteryear indicator that was meant to be glanced and not dissected.

Plus minus isn’t the end all be all but I don’t think it’s a bad comparison between players on the same team. If guys who get a similar amount of TOI have a very different +/- than would it be wrong to take away that the one with a significantly worse number is not playing as well?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Agree to disagree, I think what separates the winners from the losers is their attitude more than their talent

Yeah but you're talking about irrelevant attitude. I don't like mopey Zibanejad as much as the next guy but you're looking at how flashy guys are in their attitude. It's just irrelevant. And you frigging brought up Sean Avery as if he was some great hockey player.

 

[Machinehead]

i saw you having a discussion centered on the term play driving, i knew you both had different definitions, so i pointed it out.

as far as kakko being analytics darling - he's not, and i didn't say he was. He is analytically, a defensive whiz, but he's been middling offensively.

Let's throw out his first year, yes? As you said about Cuylles rookie year (when he was years older than Kakko was as a rookie) - it's intellectually dishonest to assume there will be no development. He was put in a bad spot with a bad coach. The sample since then, in my opinion, is large enough to show that the rookie year was an anomaly.

A discussion of his metrics since then i think should center on what I have maintained is his major flaw - a lack of flexibility in play. He wants to play one way, namely by possessing the puck, cycling down low, and kind of just holding it until the perfect setup play materializes. This works well with other players game for that style, but not with rush-centric offensive players. He can't adapt to that style well at this level.

I would like the team to play more like Kakko at even strength, stylistically. That would lead to the natural conclusion that I would like to keep Kakko, and at this point, I'm not saying I don't.

The concern I have with Kakko, and it's a rather unique phenomenon that doesn't neatly fall into any ideology I might have, is that, yes, he has shown a pattern of people scoring a lot less when they play with him. No, it's not everyone, but it's enough for me to be concerned.

Right now, as I mentioned yesterday, Cuylle is shooting 24%, so let's see where things are when he comes back to planet Earth.

If he and Kakko continue producing together, it will obviously ease my concerns.

 

[noncents]

hear ye hear ye, i've come to offer a mea culpa

i was just searching through posts of mine from the spring to see if i had actually suggested a contract that I thought made sense for Kakko at that time, and found (among posts by a lot of you skewering him as a useless valueless finnish dustbin) a particularly savage roast of @bernmeister's insistence that Kakko and Cuylle had chemistry so great so as to be prized above all other roster building considerations

while i can no longer see his posts because i blocked him because i actually can't stand the way he abbreviates player names, i should mention that, while maybe not quite as important as he was expressing, 24 and 50 do indeed play very well off of each other. You were spot on with that one bern. carry on

 

[Chytilmania]

Yeah but you're talking about irrelevant attitude. I don't like mopey Zibanejad as much as the next guy but you're looking at how flashy guys are in their attitude. It's just irrelevant. And you frigging brought up Sean Avery as if he was some great hockey player.

In a vacuum Avery isn’t a great hockey player. But I think there is value adding that type of attitude to the roster and having it rub off on others. At worst he’s a distraction to the opposing team.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

hear ye hear ye, i've come to offer a mea culpa

i was just searching through posts of mine from the spring to see if i had actually suggested a contract that I thought made sense for Kakko at that time, and found (among posts by a lot of you skewering him as a useless valueless finnish dustbin) a particularly savage roast of @bernmeister's insistence that Kakko and Cuylle had chemistry so great so as to be prized above all other roster building considerations

while i can no longer see his posts because i blocked him because i actually can't stand the way he abbreviates player names, i should mention that, while maybe not quite as important as he was expressing, 24 and 50 do indeed play very well off of each other. You were spot on with that one bern. carry on

So many things to not be able to stand about him and you blocked him over abbreviations?

 

[noncents]

I would like the team to play more like Kakko at even strength, stylistically. That would lead to the natural conclusion that I would like to keep Kakko, and at this point, I'm not saying I don't.

The concern I have with Kakko, and it's a rather unique phenomenon that doesn't neatly fall into any ideology I might have, is that, yes, he has shown a pattern of people scoring a lot less when they play with him. No, it's not everyone, but it's enough for me to be concerned.

Right now, as I mentioned yesterday, Cuylle is shooting 24%, so let's see where things are when he comes back to planet Earth.

If he and Kakko continue producing together, it will obviously ease my concerns.

yup Cuylle is off to a heater, and he *will* come back to earth. this board will be fun when that happens.

I hear you on the kakko scoring trend. I have no statistical basis for saying this, but I believe that if he has the opportunity to play consistent minutes with talented players who are a stylistic match, he'll both be productive and contribute to winning.

So many things to not be able to stand about him and you blocked him over abbreviations?

that's correct.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

How about a change to the pp1 atleast, swap zib for Laf, Kreider for Cuylle. What could hurt?

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

hear ye hear ye, i've come to offer a mea culpa

i was just searching through posts of mine from the spring to see if i had actually suggested a contract that I thought made sense for Kakko at that time, and found (among posts by a lot of you skewering him as a useless valueless finnish dustbin) a particularly savage roast of @bernmeister's insistence that Kakko and Cuylle had chemistry so great so as to be prized above all other roster building considerations

while i can no longer see his posts because i blocked him because i actually can't stand the way he abbreviates player names, i should mention that, while maybe not quite as important as he was expressing, 24 and 50 do indeed play very well off of each other. You were spot on with that one bern. carry on

@bernmeister lowkey picks up on a lot of things people miss, if you actually read the content of his posts. I get a lot of his trades seem outlandish, but I've found the unique posters on here actually offer the most insight and perspective. There's about 5,000 people posting the same things over and over, and only a few who post unique points of view. Of course you wont agree with it all, but at least its interesting, if not insightful.

 

[will1066]

Plus minus isn’t the end all be all but I don’t think it’s a bad comparison between players on the same team. If guys who get a similar amount of TOI have a very different +/- than would it be wrong to take away that the one with a significantly worse number is not playing as well?

Yeah it's probably a more useful stat when comparing players on the same team. Apples to apples.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Kreider ?
I mean the dude scored a ton the last few years and vs the canes scored one of the biggest goals in franchise history

Biggest goals in franchise history? Are you talking about the hat trick last year? With all due respect that game means nothing in NYR history. Did they win the cup? Then who cares it doesn’t matter. Memorable game? Yes. But to say it’s one of the biggest goals in franchise history is a joke. I guess when you have 1 cup since FDR games like that matter more.

 

[Machinehead]

Biggest goals in franchise history? Are you talking about the hat trick last year? With all due respect that game means nothing in NYR history. Did they win the cup? Then who cares it doesn’t matter. Memorable game? Yes. But to say it’s one of the biggest goals in franchise history is a joke. I guess when you have 1 cup since FDR games like that matter more.

Not having the indignity of blowing a 3-0 for the rest of my life is pretty f***ing important, yeah.

 

[Fitzy]

I don’t understand the “if it didn’t end in a cup it didn’t matter” mentality. Otherwise my NYR fandom has been nothing but suffering since 94. No breaks. No joy. No good memories.

I knew one guy IRL who thought that way. My high school social studies teacher. But everyone just called him “coach” and all he talked about was how we would have won the Vietnam war if we’d stuck it out.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

It the same shit as the TJ Oshie shoot out goals who cares the US didn’t even medal that year.

I don’t understand the “if it didn’t end in a cup it didn’t matter” mentality. Otherwise my NYR fandom has been nothing but suffering since 94. No breaks. No joy. No good memories.

I knew one guy IRL who thought that way. My high school social studies teacher. But everyone just called him “coach” and all he talked about was how we would have won the Vietnam war if we’d stuck it out.

And this is why other fans make fun of us for last year’s banner. Maybe they’ll hang up a hat trick banner too now.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It the same shit as the TJ Oshie shoot out goals who cares the US didn’t even medal that year.


And this is why other fans make fun of us for last year’s banner. Maybe they’ll hang up a hat trick banner too now.

You are only allowed to get joy out of watching hockey in seasons they win. And frankly because you don't know if they'll win in a particular season, the only time you can celebrate is the game winning goal of the cup clinching game. But only if you know for a fact it's the game winning goal. Otherwise no celebrating ever.

 

[Crease]

I don’t understand the “if it didn’t end in a cup it didn’t matter” mentality. Otherwise my NYR fandom has been nothing but suffering since 94. No breaks. No joy. No good memories.

It’s not my job to care so I don’t. I follow the team for entertainment and joy. The moment it stops bringing joy I’ll stop following. Some fans are only happy if the team wins AND they look good in the process. I don’t understand that mindset because you’ll only be happy 25% of the time. What’s the point?

 

[Fitzy]

It the same shit as the TJ Oshie shoot out goals who cares the US didn’t even medal that year.


And this is why other fans make fun of us for last year’s banner. Maybe they’ll hang up a hat trick banner too now.

North America is the only place on the planet that has only one meaningful accomplishment a season for a sporting league.

It’s something very special to us, and not in a good way