Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[Machinehead]

The NY post is about a half a standard deviation away from the national enquirer.

You're giving them about a half standard deviation of grace here.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Not specifically responding to you, but to me, it usually takes five guys to make a play other than having Connis McDavies or Nethan MacKinson skate through everyone and set up one of his boys.

Also, @Maliks PlusMinus in shambles now.

Georgiev in Colorado is having one of the absolute worst seasons. He’s not stopping shots.
Does that mean that the players in front of him are at fault? Because they’re letting easy shots get off.

Plus minus is worthless.

 

[SA16]

Georgiev in Colorado is having one of the absolute worst seasons. He’s not stopping shots.
Does that mean that the players in front of him are at fault? Because they’re letting easy shots get off.

Plus minus is worthless.

What if they are at fault considering his backup has a save percentage within .001?

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Chris Kreider has entered his random diffuse back pain arc. He’s toast

 

[IDvsEGO]

What if they are at fault considering his backup has a save percentage within .001?

Considering the backups is in line with his career numbers? Nope.

 

[will1066]

Georgiev in Colorado is having one of the absolute worst seasons. He’s not stopping shots.
Does that mean that the players in front of him are at fault? Because they’re letting easy shots get off.

Plus minus is worthless.

Yeah, I understand your point. It's a fair point. I don't think it's so black and white, though. Georgiev is a special case. You have six guys (including the goalie) play or not play cohesively as a group and that results in a plus or minus. Majority of the cases it's not one guy. Yeah, sometimes Miller will cough up a puck in front of the the net for a GA, but most of the time, it's lack of dzone coverage that exposes Igor, etc. I also think Igor giving up soft goals is a symptom of mental exhaustion from being constantly bombarded because the guys in front of you refuse to defend.

 

[thethirdhockeyman91]

Marchand for Kreider. Shake up for both teams. We need a pain in the ass like Marchand.

 

[will1066]

A great moment in history!

Were you not there when the Simpsons created the characters Chesty La Rue and Busty St. Claire?

THAT was a great moment in history.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Marchand for Kreider. Shake up for both teams. We need a pain in the ass like Marchand.

Nah Trouba and a 2nd for McAvoy

Kreider for zegras

 

[effen]

Chris Kreider is the first player in NHL history to reveal what his injury is during the season.

It explains his complete lack of physicality too. You can't do anything with a weak back.

Trade his ass anyway.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Yeah, I understand your point. It's a fair point. I don't think it's so black and white, though. Georgiev is a special case. You have six guys (including the goalie) play or not play cohesively as a group and that results in a plus or minus. Majority of the cases it's not one guy. Yeah, sometimes Miller will cough up a puck in front of the the net for a GA, but most of the time, it's lack of dzone coverage that exposes Igor, etc. I also think Igor giving up soft goals is a symptom of mental exhaustion from being constantly bombarded because the guys in front of you refuse to defend.

The problem is that you are correct, there are 6 guys on the ice, each one has to do a job to prevent the goal.
One guy crazy bad at his job can easily lead to a goal. Why do the other 5 get a demerit for doing their job effectively.
That’s why plus minus is bad.

Yes goals against are bad.
Goals for are good.

Now isolate it.

What does it look like w different d pairs,linemates.
What does it look like with different goalies.

And now we’re building actual metrics.

 

[RangerBoy]

I read in The Athletic Pavel Mintyukov has struggled this season. The Ducks are a mess. Zegras stinks. Zegras is a center and Cronin plays him on the wing. MacTavish stinks. Vatrano's stock was dropped like a stone. Three goals. He was the answer to unlocking Mika and Chris. Vince Mercogliano's favorite player ever.

Any insight from Leonardo67 regarding Minty?

Minty was a very good player last season.

Thinking of potential Miller trades. Minty would be an interesting player.

 

[effen]

Were you not there when the Simpsons created the characters Chesty La Rue and Busty St. Claire?

THAT was a great moment in history.

Hootie McBoob stuck the landing so hard.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I would be all in on mintyukov.

He will drive people on here f***ing nuts but his skill set and raw ability are high level. Needs some work but he’s got everything you want in an elite rover type defenseman.

 

[effen]

I read in The Athletic Pavel Mintyukov has struggled this season. The Ducks are a mess. Zegras stinks. Zegras is a center and Cronin plays him on the wing. MacTavish stinks. Vatrano's stock was dropped like a stone. Three goals. He was the answer to unlocking Mika and Chris. Vince Mercogliano's favorite player ever.

Any insight from Leonardo67 regarding Minty?

Minty was a very good player last season.

Thinking of potential Miller trades. Minty would be an interesting player.

That kind trade is possible only if Anaheim decides to accelerate things a bit. Paired with a vet forward move.

If too many guys are struggling they'll just keep sucking though.

 

[noncents]

Yeah but that's also not what play-driving means, and I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on the term.

i saw you having a discussion centered on the term play driving, i knew you both had different definitions, so i pointed it out.

as far as kakko being analytics darling - he's not, and i didn't say he was. He is analytically, a defensive whiz, but he's been middling offensively.

Let's throw out his first year, yes? As you said about Cuylles rookie year (when he was years older than Kakko was as a rookie) - it's intellectually dishonest to assume there will be no development. He was put in a bad spot with a bad coach. The sample since then, in my opinion, is large enough to show that the rookie year was an anomaly.

A discussion of his metrics since then i think should center on what I have maintained is his major flaw - a lack of flexibility in play. He wants to play one way, namely by possessing the puck, cycling down low, and kind of just holding it until the perfect setup play materializes. This works well with other players game for that style, but not with rush-centric offensive players. He can't adapt to that style well at this level.

 

[will1066]

I would be all in on mintyukov.

He will drive people on here f***ing nuts but his skill set and raw ability are high level. Needs some work but he’s got everything you want in an elite rover type defenseman.

I smelled you a mile away. lol

 

[IDvsEGO]

i saw you having a discussion centered on the term play driving, i knew you both had different definitions, so i pointed it out.

as far as kakko being analytics darling - he's not, and i didn't say he was. He is analytically, a defensive whiz, but he's been middling offensively.

Let's throw out his first year, yes? As you said about Cuylles rookie year (when he was years older than Kakko was as a rookie) - it's intellectually dishonest to assume there will be no development. He was put in a bad spot with a bad coach. The sample since then, in my opinion, is large enough to show that the rookie year was an anomaly.

A discussion of his metrics since then i think should center on what I have maintained is his major flaw - a lack of flexibility in play. He wants to play one way, namely by possessing the puck, cycling down low, and kind of just holding it until the perfect setup play materializes. This works well with other players game for that style, but not with rush-centric offensive players. He can't adapt to that style well at this level.

I think that’s actually not true. he’s mostly played with chytil and laf throughout his career, Chytil can play downlow but he’s mostly a rush centric player. Laf just adjusts to what’s needed.

 

[will1066]

The problem is that you are correct, there are 6 guys on the ice, each one has to do a job to prevent the goal.
One guy crazy bad at his job can easily lead to a goal. Why do the other 5 get a demerit for doing their job effectively.
That’s why plus minus is bad.

Yes goals against are bad.
Goals for are good.

Now isolate it.

What does it look like w different d pairs,linemates.
What does it look like with different goalies.

And now we’re building actual metrics.

Too deep a rabbit hole. Plus minus is an antiquated metric and I wouldn't be surprised if it's phased out eventually. It's a yesteryear indicator that was meant to be glanced and not dissected.

 

[noncents]

Chris Kreider has entered his random diffuse back pain arc. He’s toast

leaking this actually a brilliant subtle way to ensure he's not traded. nobody would trade fair value for a 34yo guy who relies on physical tools that has known back issues.

it's like troubas "will refuse to report" in that it tanks his trade value, but it won't make him a pariah among fans. he even couches it in an assortment of flummeries about playing through distractions, it's just hockey, etc.

 

[effen]

Metrics are overrated, all you need is Grits/60.

leaking this actually a brilliant subtle way to ensure he's not traded. nobody would trade fair value for a 34yo guy who relies on physical tools that has known back issues.

it's like troubas "will refuse to report" in that it tanks his trade value, but it won't make him a pariah among fans. he even couches it in an assortment of flummeries about playing through distractions, it's just hockey, etc.

He was very, very specific with it too. Not just one part of his back, apparently everything, all year.

Kreider leaning into his finesse game, against both players and GMs.

 

[will1066]

Kreider: 'Frustration, angst, tension' in locker room can make Rangers better

Kreider, who is dealing with back spasms, said he has spoken to GM Chris Drury about recent trade rumors but declined to characterize the conversation.

www.newsday.com

 

[noncents]

I think that’s actually not true. he’s mostly played with chytil and laf throughout his career, Chytil can play downlow but he’s mostly a rush centric player. Laf just adjusts to what’s needed.

i disagree about Chytil. He is an excellent puck carrier, but he doesn't score just off the rush. He scores off of cycle plays.

 

[duhmetreE]

I would be all in on mintyukov.

He will drive people on here f***ing nuts but his skill set and raw ability are high level. Needs some work but he’s got everything you want in an elite rover type defenseman.

I was looking at top young LHD

it'd have to be a KAM+Kreider type deal. or maybe sucker someone into thinking Lindgren is a great player.

Even Carolina with Nikishin... Kreider+KAM would be tempting for them. We'd have to take back Orlov+ or something

---

Is it too much to ask to have defenseman that can retrieve pucks and make a good decision/1st touch?

Being mobile might be asking for too much....

I read in The Athletic Pavel Mintyukov has struggled this season. The Ducks are a mess. Zegras stinks. Zegras is a center and Cronin plays him on the wing. MacTavish stinks. Vatrano's stock was dropped like a stone. Three goals. He was the answer to unlocking Mika and Chris. Vince Mercogliano's favorite player ever.

Any insight from Leonardo67 regarding Minty?

Minty was a very good player last season.

Thinking of potential Miller trades. Minty would be an interesting player.

Mika, Kreider and Lindgren
for
Zegras and Mintyukov

throw in tuba @ 50% #discountedleadership

 

[effen]

If you're looking to make a Miller trade for kiddos it's gotta be for a young team who wants to level up now.

Ottawa and Utah are the two. Everyone else is too young/old/already contending/tanking/fake record (Calgary).