Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[Leonardo87]

If Kreider is traded won't be happy. Dude is not the only one struggling now. Far from it.

 

[McRanger92]

It would be depressing.

Dont cry because it's over, smile because it happened. We reached our ceiling with him as our go-to option.

 

[Machinehead]

he looked so good 2 years ago though, and the fancies had him as a very good defender. I think this new coaching staff has been a horrible fit for him

I don't think this staff is tactically that much different from the last one.

I do think there's an argument to be made that he and Trouba are just orange juice and toothpaste. The however many seconds a game Miller isn't with Fox, where people are dying by the thousands; guess who's out there with him.

 

[TGWL]

I dont think Lindgren has a shred of value around the league. I'd scratch him, however, it should be noted that scratching on of the few guys whose effort is not in question sends a bad message. He and Trouba should be playing sheltered minutes regardless.

The value is addition by subtraction.

 

[zlev]

Miller was absolutely awesome in the 2022 playoffs and he hasn't even been close to that since. he looked like a budding superstar and he just has not realized that potential even one bit.

 

[effen]

I'm just getting to the point where I'm not that sold on the tools.

He can skate which is very good, and he's tall which I don't really care about.

Beyond that, the defensive IQ isn't there, his puck skills are terrible at this level, and doesn't get his shot through. For all of his speed, he lacks the brain and stick to play fast.

That's just my opinion. I know I'm not allowed to say anything without some people getting mad.

Being tall is a niche perk that helps a lot of isolated situations on the boards and somewhat less consistently in clearing the front of the net. If a guy has any physical instincts at all his elbows are at a 5'10 guys head height and that makes a difference too.

Reach and general defensive positioning matter a lot when there's a cone around you skaters won't go through. People here wonder why he fell off with Laviolette - he hasn't, the league just figured out they don't have to respect his physicality at all so they're unafraid around him and suddenly reach and positioning are a lot less effective without a deterrent to go with it.

Books out. Up to him to add something. Same guy he was 3 years ago.

 

[Machinehead]

Dont cry because it's over, smile because it happened. We reached our ceiling with him as our go-to option.

I mean, if they actually moved a radical new direction, sure.

I remain unconvinced that if a move happens, it won't be for "muh shakeup" while four or five terrible players are still playing regular minutes.

A shakeup for the sake of it isn't going to work.

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

If this team crumbled because of the way Barclay Goodrow was treated, they're all gonna be planning each other's funerals if Kreider is traded mid-season.

 

[noncents]

The whole Miller thing is a completely separate issue.

You came in this morning with "all analytics are garbage because I used the wrong ones."

That's not a serious take.

what i came in with is "analytics are as useful a predictor of future performance as past stock price fluctuations are." there are too many variables to use them unilaterally, or orthodoxically, as you and many others do.

and if you insist on hearing it - yeah i didn't put hours of research into it. It's an opinion, and i could absolutely be wrong. My theory is really one about the delicacy of hockey teams as analytical ecosystems, where certain variables like locker room fit and communal work ethic have bigger impact on results than we give credit for.

I'm not a statistician - i took a couple of examples off the cuff, players who were on our team for a little while and then went elsewhere. you don't want to engage with those examples? fine.

so that's "my thing," which you're all too happy to take time to denigrate. whatever, i welcome counter argument and opposing viewpoints.

what's more telling is that you are incapable or unwilling to brook any challenge to what you believe and "think others need to hear." you just don't engage with the fact that your process in determining whether a player is valuable, across a shifting set of metrics from the analytical ("Kakko tilts the ice but sucks because he is allergic to scoring") to the visible ("you only see a players bad plays"), has led you to arrive at poor conclusions.

Kakko is the prime example here. He was always pretty strong analytically, except for after his injury last year. You swore up and down that he sucked because GF results weren't there. "Kreider and Mika aren't AT ALL to blame for his scoring ineffectiveness! They score without him!! He doesn't score with anyone! He just can't score! He sucks!"

Are you denying that you arrived at that conclusion? Or have you adjusted your method for evaluating players effectiveness based on this new data? Do you still think Kakko sucks and has no value to this team?

Let me guess: you'll pick out one sentence from the first half of this post where I acknowledge my own opinion's potential flaws, and completely ignore responding to any discussion of your own process' weakness.

 

[lakeshirts37]

The main problem is every other GM in this league wants to f*** the Rangers. Nobody is going to help us with the big boy trades. It never seems to work in our favor because we're a constant target.

This is ridiculous

 

[LokiDog]

If this team crumbled because of the way Barclay Goodrow was treated, they're all gonna be planning each other's funerals if Kreider is traded mid-season.

If that happens, good. It makes it easier to strip it to the bolts and start with Shesty, Fox, Schneider, Laf, Cullye, Perrault, etc.

Pout. Mope. Give us a reason to scorch the earth.

 

[bernmeister]

Fun fact Zibs and Panarin aren't going to get traded anytime soon. So even suggesting it is a gigantic waste of time.

All the other players who do not have NMCs are the obvious choices to make this team better.

Last nights game showed the forwards arent coming back to play defense and Schneider and Mancini got caved. Rangers need dmen bad and their forwards to actually play defense.

pls read my post 2941

 

[Chytilmania]

Kreider has 312 goals in the NHL. Can Cuylle maybe get to 25 before we put the entire cart before the entire horse?

At this point he’s a lock for 312 goals disallowed.

 

[TGWL]

I can't wait for the offseason. The fanbase is going to explode.

 

[Machinehead]

what i came in with is "analytics are as useful a predictor of future performance as past stock price fluctuations are." there are too many variables to use them unilaterally, or orthodoxically, as you and many others do.

and if you insist on hearing it - yeah i didn't put hours of research into it. It's an opinion, and i could absolutely be wrong. My theory is really one about the delicacy of hockey teams as analytical ecosystems, where certain variables like locker room fit and communal work ethic have bigger impact on results than we give credit for.

I'm not a statistician - i took a couple of examples off the cuff, players who were on our team for a little while and then went elsewhere. you don't want to engage with those examples? fine.

so that's "my thing," which you're all too happy to take time to denigrate. whatever, i welcome counter argument and opposing viewpoints.

what's more telling is that you are incapable or unwilling to brook any challenge to what you believe and "think others need to hear." you just don't engage with the fact that your process in determining whether a player is valuable, across a shifting set of metrics from the analytical ("Kakko tilts the ice but sucks because he is allergic to scoring") to the visible ("you only see a players bad plays"), has led you to arrive at poor conclusions.

Kakko is the prime example here. He was always pretty strong analytically, except for after his injury last year. You swore up and down that he sucked because GF results weren't there. "Kreider and Mika aren't AT ALL to blame for his scoring ineffectiveness! They score without him!! He doesn't score with anyone! He just can't score! He sucks!"

Are you denying that you arrived at that conclusion? Or have you adjusted your method for evaluating players effectiveness based on this new data? Do you still think Kakko sucks and has no value to this team?

Let me guess: you'll pick out one sentence from the first half of this post where I acknowledge my own opinion's potential flaws, and completely ignore responding to any discussion of your own process' weakness.

You couldn't come up with any good examples (and I asked nicely) to substantiate your point, and now you're making a federal case over the fact that I went "well, you're not being serious then."

 

[zlev]

On that note, it's probably against the rules, but if @Leonardo87 will let it slide, I'm going to post pictures of actual shit:

View attachment 935304
View attachment 935305View attachment 935306View attachment 935307View attachment 935308

That's a massive aberration for Kreider based on his historical outputs, but also, he's headed for 34. The rest of them are having a normal one.

That's three out of your top four on defense. The house is on fire and we're wondering if the wallpaper is the wrong color. Let's put the fire out.

can you post Cuylle's chart?

 

[noncents]

You couldn't come up with any good examples (and I asked nicely) to substantiate your point, and now you're making a federal case over the fact that I went "well, you're not being serious then."

naw dude, i'm asking you a direct question about your own process and conclusions and you're meming, whatabouting, and calling me unserious. 2 separate discussions - one about my point, and another about yours. We've discussed mine, you won't engage about yours. repeatedly.

do your thing, buddy.

 

[McRanger92]

I mean, if they actually moved a radical new direction, sure.

I remain unconvinced that if a move happens, it won't be for "muh shakeup" while four or five terrible players are still playing regular minutes.

A shakeup for the sake of it isn't going to work.

The bandaid needs to be ripped off at some point. The tones the veterans set with their play this year is why these moves can't wait until the offseason.

 

[RangerBoy]

I can't wait for the offseason. The fanbase is going to explode.

That might be a good thing.

 

[GAGLine]

you
cannot
move
zibanejad

While I believe it would be incredibly difficult, I can't say it's impossible.

Mika would have to agree to it, which lowers the possibilities considerably. And the other team would have to be one that has a need for a center, is trying to win now, and also has one or more roster players they would be willing to trade.

Looking around the league, we could potentially send Mika to the following teams:

Seattle for Stephenson
Dallas for Seguin
Minnesota for Trenin and/or Hartman
Nashville for Stamkos
St. Louis for Schenn
Utah for Hayton
Boston for Elias Lindholm or Coyle
Detroit for Copp

Add as necessary to balance them. Most of these teams are on the bubble. I don't know if Mika would agree to go to any of them. Getting to play again with Buch in St. Louis or Zuke in Minnesota might be an incentive.

To be clear, any deal would almost certainly happen in the offseason. If the NHL and NHLPA can agree on a new CBA and the cap goes up to 97 mil, teams are going to have money to spend. Taking on Mika's cap hit won't be that big a deal. The only issue will be the term, but if he's an improvement on what they have, or they can send back a contract with equally long term, they may be willing to risk it.

I wonder also if there is a deal out there for Mika and Kreider together. That's probably crazy talk but sending them together might increase the number of teams Mika is willing to go to.

 

[Ruggs225]

I can't wait for the offseason. The fanbase is going to explode.

Not me. I exploded this offseason when drury didnt do shit and people expected we would be better.

Im ready for change. Begging for the vets to be traded. Starting with the oldest member of the country club #20. The sooner we cut this rotted bait the better.

The kids need to be given the chance to lead! NOW!

 

[Machinehead]

naw dude, i'm asking you a direct question about your own process and conclusions and you're meming, whatabouting, and calling me unserious. 2 separate discussions - one about my point, and another about yours. We've discussed mine, you won't engage about yours. repeatedly.

do your thing, buddy.

I'm not doing this.

I asked you for an example for something you said and you had none.

I'm not going to sit here and argue about the meaning of meaning about it.

 

[Chytilmania]

I think Trouba is gone in the offseason and they’re throwing Kreider’s name in the media to get him to wake up. The shake up will be getting rid of Fox’s bestie.

But this is all for naught when there is zero accountability. Mika should get demoted and Laf move to PP1. Vets should get benched/scratched when they don’t show up. Fox should see a body language coach (half joking).

 

[Mike in Houston]

Wouldn't it be something if we found out Kreider was on board with this as a means of helping the message get across to the team? Knowing full well he's not in any danger of being moved. As the senior most Ranger maybe Drury and Laviolette went to him with this and he agreed.

 

[Machinehead]

can you post Cuylle's chart?

I don't really care about the defense right now. It's 19 games. You could chalk that up to noise.

Look at the offense!!