Roster Building Thread - Part XII(Training Camp/Preseason)

[Levitate]

I firmly believe that you have to get over that "but we can't play a rookie, we're supposed to be a cup team!" mentality and just f***ing play your bottom six rookies instead of signing bad veterans

They're cheaper, you develop them that way, and they're often just damn better than the guy you pull off the scrap heap because "he has experience" (at sucking)

when year after year you send down your depth prospects and say "it sure is great to have depth waiting in the wings!" eventually they're gonna stagnate or leave.

Just play them. Stop overthinking shit.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I firmly believe that you have to get over that "but we can't play a rookie, we're supposed to be a cup team!" mentality and just f***ing play your bottom six rookies instead of signing bad veterans

They're cheaper, you develop them that way, and they're often just damn better than the guy you pull off the scrap heap because "he has experience" (at sucking)

when year after year you send down your depth prospects and say "it sure is great to have depth waiting in the wings!" eventually they're gonna stagnate or leave.

Just play them. Stop overthinking shit.

when you hire Dinosaur Head coaches all the time thats what you get

 

[LOFIN]

They're cheaper, you develop them that way, and they're often just damn better than the guy you pull off the scrap heap because "he has experience" (at sucking)

Well, you develop them to be bottom-6 players. That has been established with Laf and Kakko. So, yes to playing Edström and Rempe on the 4th line. No to playing a guy like Perreault or Berard in the bottom-6.

 

[Levitate]

Well, you develop them to be bottom-6 players. That has been established with Laf and Kakko. So, yes to playing Edström and Rempe on the 4th line. No to playing a guy like Perreault or Berard in the bottom-6.

Yeah that's why I said bottom sixers/depth players

 

[LOFIN]

Yeah that's why I said bottom sixers/depth players

I can't read lol

 

[Graves94]

There's no evidence to support this speculation. Yes, some players have gotten upset, taken their ball and gone home. Nothing I have seen from Edstrom suggests to me that he is that sort of person. And even if he is, he is under contract. He can't go back unless the Rangers allow it.

I think your estimation of what he would make in the SHL is very high.

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According to this link, the average salary in the SHL is 110k. It may be a bit higher since this article was written, but not substantially so.

Simultaneously, your estimation of what he will make here is too low.

Not being on the team day 1 doesn't mean he will spend the entire year in the AHL. He will spend time on the NHL roster, and for every day he does, he will be earning his NHL salary.

People are really just making too much of the situation. There are factors outside Edstrom's control. I'm sure he's a big boy (in more than the literal sense) and I'm sure those factors will be explained to him in the event he is sent down. Life isn't always fair.

If he was a rookie, I think he would understand and accept the demotion, but having already played 4 years against men in the SHL, it's a harder sell. My point is that he provides something that this team sorely needs (size, speed, physicality) on the 4th line.

Based on training camp so far and from last season, I would waive Brodzinski (he would clear) and rotate Carrick, Rempe, Edstrom & Vesey.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I’m glad Mancini is being given a look over the old retreads. I didn’t watch the game last night too closely but he was impressive from what I saw.

 

[SA16]

My point wasn't to say any average goalie can win a Stanley Cup; they are AVERAGE for a reason, or perhaps many reasons. A lot of it depends on the team in front of them. A goalie gets hot at the right time, stand on his head, the team feel confidence in him, they can go on a run.

Again, I state that my preference is to re-sign Shesterkin long term, hopefully at a reasonable AAV. He'll likely get more than most people on here (in terms of AAV) are comfortable with. I hope they don't make the same mistake with Shesterkin they made with Lundqvist; relied on him too much; he covered up a lot of their mistakes; they need to have a team around him to take the next steps. I don't think this core can get them there (Stanley Cup champions); I hope I'm wrong.

The mistake they made with lundqvist was signing a top goalie and then focusing on defensive play to support him when he didn’t need to be supported instead of allocating most of the remaining dollars and coaching strategies to a run and gun style offense letting the elite goalie bail them out more than the other teams goalie

 

[Clark Kellogg]

 

[cheech70]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1839728268385108277

WOW finally

 

[n8]

Floored that they’re giving Mancini a look at LD.

Very unlike this organization.

According to @Amazing Kreiderman Mancini has played a good deal of LD. He's had the best camp so with Lindgren out it makes sense that he's getting the look over Mackey, Rudhwedel, Robertson, etc.

 

[bernmeister]

The Cap will be 30M+ higher by the time Shesty’s contract ends. Pay. the. Man.

again, opportunity cost, $$ applied to Shesty or elsewhere

 

[bernmeister]

Edstrom should be on the team. I think he will be. Brodzinski will probably get waived because he'll pass thru waivers. i think Jimmy would get claimed. I love Vesey but his usefulness is running out. he didnt do much besides kill penalties the second half of last year. He's a fine 13th forward but he can't play center. They shuld be doing faceoff work with Mr. Ed and Rempe.

yes Rem + Ed
no on Vesey
leaning to Brodz

---------
If I'm not mistaken
say maybe Veesy SLIGHTLY better on def, maybe
Brodz bigger, taller better reach, righty shot, pivot, better offense

if we are objective, deal Vesey now

 

[Raspewtin]

I firmly believe that you have to get over that "but we can't play a rookie, we're supposed to be a cup team!" mentality and just f***ing play your bottom six rookies instead of signing bad veterans

They're cheaper, you develop them that way, and they're often just damn better than the guy you pull off the scrap heap because "he has experience" (at sucking)

when year after year you send down your depth prospects and say "it sure is great to have depth waiting in the wings!" eventually they're gonna stagnate or leave.

Just play them. Stop overthinking shit.

but what else are we going to do with Sam Carrick who we signed for 3 YEARS!!! for no reason at all???

 

[bernmeister]

According to @Amazing Kreiderman Mancini has played a good deal of LD. He's had the best camp so with Lindgren out it makes sense that he's getting the look over Mackey, Rudhwedel, Robertson, etc.

good, but again everyone
Mancini so good Robertson looked ok w/him
that is yr third pair

but what else are we going to do with Sam Carrick who we signed for 3 YEARS!!! for no reason at all???

do not dress
or ditch

he is NOT better than RempEd
so it is him Brodz + who has better chem w/RempEd

 

[n8]

good, but again everyone
Mancini so good Robertson looked ok w/him
that is yr third pair

Did you magically trade Trouba again?

@Amazing Kreiderman can you tell me how much center Edstrom has played? He was drafted at C but I get the sense that he is mostly a wing down in Hartford. Was that the case in the SEL too?

 

[bernmeister]

If he was a rookie, I think he would understand and accept the demotion, but having already played 4 years against men in the SHL, it's a harder sell. My point is that he provides something that this team sorely needs (size, speed, physicality) on the 4th line.

Based on training camp so far and from last season, I would waive Brodzinski (he would clear) and rotate Carrick, Rempe, Edstrom & Vesey.

Likely, but an assumption
Just ditch Vesey
RempEd = a given
Carrick v Brodz open battle I see Brodz wins

Did you magically trade Trouba again?

@Amazing Kreiderman can you tell me how much center Edstrom has played? He was drafted at C but I get the sense that he is mostly a wing down in Hartford. Was that the case in the SEL too?

Like I said, Mancini is better skater, etc and sufficiently tough
Trouba sits
or
plays 4RW w/RempEd
or
see if he can LD first or 2nd pair w/Fox or Schneid

 

[bernmeister]

That's the rub. Waiving one of them in favor of Edstrom may result in losing that depth.

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We currently have 14 forwards, including Vesey, Brodz, Rempe and Edstrom. If we go into the season with 14 forwards, then they could all make the team. However, with the injury to Lindgren, it's more likely that we begin the season with 13 forwards so we can carry 8 dmen.

In that scenario, one of the above will start in Hartford. Both Edstrom and Rempe are waiver exempt and are far more likely to be sent down than players whom we might lose on waivers. That's just the reality of it. It doesn't mean Edstrom (or Rempe, if he is sent down) won't be up once Lindgren is healthy. It doesn't mean he won't play a lot of games in the NHL this year.

It's a numbers game and it isn't always fair.

this is fair, honest and accurate
howev, we can and should just ditch Vesey
now

 

[JCProdigy]

I don't understand what some people want from a 4th liner.

If they can skate/forecheck, keep the puck in the opponents end and can play solid defense when needed/PK, you're a great 4th liner.

Edstrom has potential to be a great 4th liner. I do not get why some people require top9 offense from a 4th liner.

Fun exercise for fans to do and one I did as a kid in the 90s: Go down either the current roster or a roster of ideal players and put the amount of goals for each player/position you think they should get. Now add it all up. If your team's total goals rivals the amount scored by the 1984 Edmonton Oilers, then maybe your expectations are a little out of whack....like mine were when I was 12 years old.

 

[bernmeister]

The thing that's impressed me most about Edstrom this time around is that he's playing a bit more aggressive. I don't mean physically per se. But I just mean, there's less hesitation in his game which is allowing him to use his skating and reach more effectively. At times, he's been a revelation on the forecheck. He also seems to be using his physicality a bit more. He's not crushing people, but he's been very effective with how he's using his frame. This has put him in situations where he's getting points and chances in preseason. I don't fully expect that to keep up during the regular season. But to me, he's proven to me that's worthy of a fourth line position. TBH, and I know it's just preseason, but I don't think he's been any less effective than Cuylle. Like I could see him in a 3rd line role with his style of play.

Edstrom's play and to a smaller degree, Rempe's play is inspiring a greater vision for the Rangers bottom 6. One based a bit more on speed and forecheck, and a bit less on pure puck possession and skill. In an ideal world, the bottom 6 would play fast and create lots of cycling and zone time which could help swing momentum, wear opponents down. I could see a line with Ed and Remps that would be highly effective at that.

ONE LAST THING: Regarding who actually gets the last few roster spots at Forward. Our line combos as currently constituted are complicating the situation more than anything. We do not have a typical 3rd line that can be relied upon in close games to play stout D. They don't shut down opponents top 6s. None of them PK (unless Cuylle starts to). Which means, we're either asking our top 6 to handle greater D zone responsibility or we're going to have to rely on our 4th line to handle some of those assignments. Simply because Vesey and Carrick will be relied upon to PK gives them the inside track on the roster. It's going to make it very very hard for both Edstrom or Rempe to make the roster. Furthermore, Brodzinski can play all 3 forward spots and has been used a bunch at C. For Ed and Rempe to both be on the roster someone higher up in the lineup is out. Or is traded. At the very least. As a team we overrely on our first line to handle more defensive responsibilities. Edstrom, even more than Rempe is going to need to show he can PK and be relied upon to handle hard line matchups. That is a big hurdle and a bit unfair to ask of a rookie.

good post, but bold = false assumption
most of this roster is responsible enuf to do pk

ditch Vesey
addition by subtraction

Right but let’s be real Vesey is meh
Is Erne much worse ?

let's be real
concur Vesey is meh so = buh-bye
Erne now = AHL depth, nothing more

 

[hardnosed]

So, if we put Lindgren on IR, we are allowed to replace him on the roster, meaning we can carry 8 D. However, that doesn't help cap wise. Do we have the cap room to carry our top 5, the injured Lindgren and Mancini and Chad as a press box sitter?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

According to @Amazing Kreiderman Mancini has played a good deal of LD. He's had the best camp so with Lindgren out it makes sense that he's getting the look over Mackey, Rudhwedel, Robertson, etc.

I'm sure AK is right but it almost doesn't matter if they've played LD before as this org is allergic to trying to do these things regardless.

I sort of get it, playing your offside as a D at the NHL level is hard to do but they've been so steadfast on keeping people on their strong side/letting shitty vets with some NHL experience get extended looks. Moving a guy who hasn't played at the NHL level into that spot and seeing if it works is... not something that they've done.

It may not work out at all but its a breath of fresh air.

 

[Levitate]

I think there's no realistic RD spot available so giving a guy who has stood out the most a shot on the left in training camp isn't crazy

the crazy part will be if they leave him there when the season starts and if he does well, keep him there when lindgren returns (I can't believe that would ever happen)

 

[17futurecap]

Vesey and Carrick will be on the team since they PK, read the tweet today, no one else is getting time on the PK. Smith and Carrick are the new PK additions.

 

[n8]

Like I said, Mancini is better skater, etc and sufficiently tough
Trouba sits
or
plays 4RW w/RempEd
or
see if he can LD first or 2nd pair w/Fox or Schneid

Nice thoughts. 1000% unrealistic. You're gonna need another injury to pull off that Roberston scenario. The off chance is if the Rangers really want to carry 7D all the time. Again, unlikely given the cap juggling we always do. Why incur cap when you can have your waiver exempt player in HFD?