Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
- Start date
- Status
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
@Lion Hound, I understand the point you are trying to make with how AV builds his team. I was watching his press conference, and he actually seemed very complimentary of Buchnevich (its kind of hard not to be with how he's playing), but the ice time does not match up with AV's reaction or 89's play. At ES yesterday, he had the second least time, only 8 seconds more than Nieves who was in his second career NHL game. This was for a player who was sitting on a hat-trick, and has probably been our best player so far this season. You can't have guys on the fourth line that you want getting significant minutes. Maybe in a best case scenario game, the ice time for all the players can be pretty even, but the fourth line guys always get shafted with ice time. Thats not even something AV does wrong, fourth line guys in regular rotations (unless they are your top PP and PK guys) will not get the minutes others do because of how the regular rotations work, unless you rotate them in earlier than other lines, but then that wouldn't be your fourth line.
Ail
Based and Rangerspilled.
I would like to suggest the termination of head coach Alain Vingeault as a solution to some of the aforementioned roster deficiencies.
Thank you.
Thank you.
PB, drop it!
Buch played 3 min less than our top forward last night 5 on 5. AVs intention is to roll 4 lines if he has 4 lines that functions.Buch — runs — our PP. That is an extremely important role. He basically will play as much as everyone else 5 on 5, besides maybe a few odd shifts over course of 60 minutes. Some of those shifts will be real dog minutes on late draws and defensive shifts.
Gardner M. in the prior thread.
My point was Nieves could play defensively responsible and chip in offensively w/2 much better Ws who would carry the offense.
This game proved it, and others will as well.
Siemens, yes, I said trade for, but never said he was a savior, just a way to improve the roster. I was wrong about him, but he was usually a throw in, not a principal piece, and in such deals I think I tried to get a wonder twin sent back the other way.
I don't mind disagreement with me.
I'm usually polite about it.
But when some deserve a comeuppance from me, remember, I give as good as I get --- and then some.
Almost the entire board ridiculed me about Nieves. I was proven right. You can stand with the dozen or so detractors who can't be good sports and admit it. or that the record is that I am more correct than incorrect, but so be it.
However, I will not yield, nor accept distorted history.
Irrelevant, although I have acknowledged the point.
My point was Nieves could play defensively responsible and chip in offensively w/2 much better Ws who would carry the offense.
This game proved it, and others will as well.
Hall remains better to date but Kreider continues to improve and has a better take over factor. Prob is better defensively too. It is fair to prefer one over the other at this point, but it is not a night and day bad bet.
That's a funny way to spell Tysen Dowzak, who I did not say was can't miss, but I was very bullish on.
Siemens, yes, I said trade for, but never said he was a savior, just a way to improve the roster. I was wrong about him, but he was usually a throw in, not a principal piece, and in such deals I think I tried to get a wonder twin sent back the other way.
Hertl was worth more than Stepan, I was right about that. Even with more added. He is currently a lot less than his rookie value due to injuries, but still is in high demand. Stepan.... I said plateaued and is barely hanging on to 1C status.
I don't mind honest debate
I don't mind disagreement with me.
I'm usually polite about it.
But when some deserve a comeuppance from me, remember, I give as good as I get --- and then some.
Almost the entire board ridiculed me about Nieves. I was proven right. You can stand with the dozen or so detractors who can't be good sports and admit it. or that the record is that I am more correct than incorrect, but so be it.
However, I will not yield, nor accept distorted history.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
re: Nieves, the kid has played 1 NHL game this season, after not terribly standing out in camp or seven games of the AHL season. I think we need to give this one a little more time, just saying.
What I do find somewhat amusing, as an old-timer on here, is the amount of time we've always spent fiercely debating marginal talent. All things considered, we've spent more hours debating fourth line forwards, number 6 defensemen and backup goalies than we do anyone else - with the possible exception of coaches...who are all morons after a season or two.
And for all the time spent, years later we would struggle to recall many of them. Why? Because they were exactly what their high end was expected to be - fourth line or marginal NHL talent. Very rarely have we had fourth line prospects that we hang our hats on years later.
Just interesting to me.
What I do find somewhat amusing, as an old-timer on here, is the amount of time we've always spent fiercely debating marginal talent. All things considered, we've spent more hours debating fourth line forwards, number 6 defensemen and backup goalies than we do anyone else - with the possible exception of coaches...who are all morons after a season or two.
And for all the time spent, years later we would struggle to recall many of them. Why? Because they were exactly what their high end was expected to be - fourth line or marginal NHL talent. Very rarely have we had fourth line prospects that we hang our hats on years later.
Just interesting to me.
Last edited:
FoxysExpensiveNYDigs
Boo Nieves Truther
Bern this is exactly why people get frustrated with you. You take any measure of success as proof that you are right. Truth is we won't be able to evaluate the Stepan trade until ADA and Lias develop. No one is ready to crown Boo after 1 game except you.
GregSirico
KakkoSZN
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
I'm less sure AV gets fired this season at this point
It's going to take this team bottoming out (being last in the league) in like January or February for them to fire him
They're going to make a panic trade before he gets fired, I would almost bet on it
It's going to take this team bottoming out (being last in the league) in like January or February for them to fire him
They're going to make a panic trade before he gets fired, I would almost bet on it
GregSirico
KakkoSZN
I kind of think that is much more likely. I actually think a trade for Duchene is coming. I do think this might be GMJG's last hurrah effort to get a team for AV though if they make a deal for Duchene (especially if they can keep the core intact) and it will be a sink or swim for AV.
If they get Duchene, and somehow AV still can't get this team going ... he won't last. PERIOD.
GregSirico
KakkoSZN
GregSirico
KakkoSZN
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
PB, drop it!
Buch — runs — our PP. That is an extremely important role. He basically will play as much as everyone else 5 on 5, besides maybe a few odd shifts over course of 60 minutes. Some of those shifts will be real dog minutes on late draws and defensive shifts.
I don't think we have very many NHL'ers among our forward group. Kreider, Zibanejad, Buchnevich, Miller, Zuccarello, Nash, Hayes, Desharnais, Fast, Grabner are NHL'ers, while I think Vesey is not and I have not seen enough from Nieves to know, but all of that could change. My point is that I don't think we have 12 quality NHL forwards right now, so I don't think rolling 4 lines makes any sense.
And with those lines, we gotta remember its competitive hockey, this is a team trying to get into the playoffs. I wouldn't suggest playing the 6 best forwards 30 minutes each, but I do think we have a team that is lacking forward depth, and therefore should not be "rolling 4 lines", as some people like to call it. I would give very sporadic ice time to Vesey, Desharnais and Nieves, so in essence, its really 3 lines, and when thats all you have, spreading out your best players on all different lines to make sure some lines don't suck isn't a smart strategy. We've gotten rid of our best line, KZB, put them on three separate lines that they don't play as well on, we've tried our best to lessen the impact of Miller and Kreider by sticking them with Desharnais, we've stymied Hayes maybe for two years putting him with Vesey, Fast is a fine NHL'er, but he adds very little offense, so Hayes has to do all the heavy lifting on his line, in terms of offense. And its the same with Buchnevich who has been playing with grinders, something that obviously isn't going to help his game. AV loves to combine grinders and skill players on lines, and I think more than anything, it makes the offense less effective.
Thanks for the 2 cents. I disagree.
Not everybody is frustrated with me. Just the vocal dozen or so who are adamant about how when I say something outside the box, they are not merely disagreeing, but adamant that I could not possibly be right. Then when facts show otherwise, I have to set the record straight. Some detractors still can't accept that. None of that is appealing to the viewership at large, but it is the lesser of 2 evils. Otherwise, those guys are dictating to the board if they are not forced to remain honest. I trust the rest of the board understands and relates. Better to be pissed off than pissed on.
Stepan trade. Respectfully disagree
We should have moved him years ago.
Keeping him w/his NMC-NTC was the wrong move.
Anything that did not return a bad contract was a winning trade.
We got 2 elcs and cap space for him and Raanta. We do not need to wait to see how much we won that trade by based on how DeAng + LA turn out; we've already won it.
Crowning Boo.
I said on the record, yes it is one game, but it proved my point. He can be complementary pivot to 2 Ws who can drive their own offense. If that applies for Grabner-Buch, it could apply for higher rated Ws also. That's all.
I Eat Crow
Fear The Mullet
- Jul 9, 2007
- 19,984
- 13,652
Mikael Backlund
Atkinson, JVR, Hornqvist, Stone, Eller, and Komarov all intrigue me up front.
PB, drop it!
Buch — runs — our PP. That is an extremely important role. He basically will play as much as everyone else 5 on 5, besides maybe a few odd shifts over course of 60 minutes. Some of those shifts will be real dog minutes on late draws and defensive shifts.
3 minutes in AV land is like 10 full shifts lol.
PB deserved top 6 minutes, and he hasn’t done anything to deserve the 4th line doghouse. Yes, AV enjoys spreading the minutes (wayy too much) but one your most talented, possibly most talented, should not be playing on the 4th line.
brians1128
Registered User
- Nov 1, 2016
- 647
- 320
There are a few Wingers with some skill, grit that i can see added given that we should/might loose a few by trade deadline or in Free agency. Most I would say are middle 6 to bottom six players, Of course cost will play an important role.
Marchessault, Roussel, Komarov, Hansen, Cogliano.
The higher priced wingers I would stay away from JVR and Atkinson even though I like Atkinson i just think he will cost way too much.
The center position is a interesting topic, Rangers playing DD in the 2C slot over Hayes leads me to believe that the Rangers still want need a legitimate 2C. Tavares will cost way too much money which we dont have and we dont know if management makes a trade for one or decides to fill it via free agency.
I dont see Anderrson starting and filling the 2C role next season, I see him centering the 3rd line which to me means Hayes probably will be shopped at the draft. The question will be will the Rangers overpay for Duchene this year?
Free Anency pretty much has Turris or Mikael Backlund I believe turris is looking for 6-6.5M per season over a long term deal and gotta think Backlund will be just under that I dont know if either will fix our issues as a team but oonly time will tell
McD37
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2016
- 596
- 94
I do not see them signing center. If Hayes continues playing like he has been playing lately, I think they would rather sign him than go after Backlund. There are also Lias and Chytil who can both become regulars as soon as next season I think.
McD37
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2016
- 596
- 94
If Tavares would be willing to sign with Rangers on accepatble contract, Rangers would not think twice IMO. The cap is a bit of a problem but I think it is doable with some moves. I would not read too much into Desharnais playing over Hayes in the line-up, from what I saw it is not about performance, Kevin is playing good hockey. I agree you can do better at 2C but I also think Rangers rely on Lias, Chytil getting there in 2,3 years.
As for wingers, curious to see if they re-sign Grabner. If not, they may look for some quick winger to replace his speed, PK role in the line-up. There is definitely lack of depth at W in the organisation, but not sure if they will go draft route to get some high-end wingers or they will sign someone next year. May be both.
I would have agreed with this if it was 1995.
Look at Vegas, they are a very hard team to play against because they have great depth. We have played our best hockey over the years when we have had 4 lines that works. When we haven’t had 4 lines that work we have played by far our worst hockey, lately and when Etem was here.
I think it makes zero sense to put as much value as some does into if you are on a specific line. All shifts matter the same. The most important thing is definitely NOT to give the top guys the top minutes — it’s to ice 4’lines that work. AINEC.
PB- You run the notion that AV hates Buch, my point is just that I honestly really do not think that that actually is the case.
Sure we can discuss how AV runs his bench — but I really don’t think AV hates Buch.
- Status
Latest posts
-
Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV- Latest: billingtons ghost
-
Confirmed with Link: Jake Evans signs extension (4 years, $2.85M AAV)
- Latest: CharleyHorse
