Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXXVIII - Calm in the eye of Desolation?

[Kocur Dill]

Comparing what the Rangers have done back to the early 90's does not really make sense. What is germane is what is going on under the current regime. And a false argument to begin with as Buchnevich has clearly been developed here. Callahan, whatever you think of him, was clearly developed here. Dubinsky, whatever you think of him, was clearly developed here. So are we talking about forwards or high end forward draft picks?

If Farabee is being used as a comp to the perception that Kakko not developing, I will point out that the former is a year older, had a full extra year of development before he jumped into the league and last year was really not all that better offensively.

And there is no sense whatsoever to use him as a comp to Lafreniere.

"The God damn Germans got nothin to do wit it!"

 

[bleedblue94]

If there was any possible way to swing it, Lemmy - Bennett - Virtanen would be an entertaining line!

And play shorthanded for 40 mins a game...

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I think Tampa also has the benefit of being judged by their 2014-2020 success.

What we overlook is how much that organization still struggled for years after taking Stamkos and Hedman at 1 and 2 respectively, or that high picks like Connolly, Drouin and Koekkoek didn't really have the desired impact of their lofty draft positions.

I'm not sure that there's a secret formula at work other than patience.

Basically we are in a spot equivalent to Tampa's 2011/12, while using the accomplishments of Tampa's 2020 as the measuring stick.

What I always mention when discussing Tampa's drafting is that if their scouts were as good as some make them out to be, how did they wait until the 2nd round to draft Kucherov? Or until the 3rd round to draft others like Point and Cirelli?

It's easy to look back at the few success stories in later rounds and just chalk it up to great scouting. Why did they not draft them earlier?

To be clear: Rangers drafting has been fine. Not great but when you take draft position into consideration, it's not as bad as some fans think. But when Kakko and Lafreniere aren't producing, the last thing I would blame is drafting. They were the consensus picks where they were selected.

 

[duhmetreE]

I think Tampa also has the benefit of being judged by their 2014-2020 success.

What we overlook is how much that organization still struggled for years after taking Stamkos and Hedman at 1 and 2 respectively, or that high picks like Connolly, Drouin and Koekkoek didn't really have the desired impact of their lofty draft positions.

I'm not sure that there's a secret formula at work other than patience.

Basically we are in a spot equivalent to Tampa's 2011/12, while using the accomplishments of Tampa's 2020 as the measuring stick.

I agree, we're a year or so away from becoming a success like Tampa.

I like to add, once Tampa got rid of Boucher and hired Cooper, they have been contenders and a top team in the league. Boucher lasted 2 1/2 years. Maybe the parallels continue with the Rangers.....

Tick tock Quinn.

 

[SA16]

What I always mention when discussing Tampa's drafting is that if their scouts were as good as some make them out to be, how did they wait until the 2nd round to draft Kucherov? Or until the 3rd round to draft others like Point and Cirelli?

It's easy to look back at the few success stories in later rounds and just chalk it up to great scouting. Why did they not draft them earlier?

To be clear: Rangers drafting has been fine. Not great but when you take draft position into consideration, it's not as bad as some fans think. But when Kakko and Lafreniere aren't producing, the last thing I would blame is drafting. They were the consensus picks where they were selected.

The TB scouting department has also drafted a total of 3 NHL players in the last six years (so far) of which only one of is anything important. Cirelli, Howden, and Joseph. Palat is the only player since 2010 they've drafted in rounds 5-7 that became an NHL player.

 

[Edge]

What I always mention when discussing Tampa's drafting is that if their scouts were as good as some make them out to be, how did they wait until the 2nd round to draft Kucherov? Or until the 3rd round to draft others like Point and Cirelli?

It's easy to look back at the few success stories in later rounds and just chalk it up to great scouting. Why did they not draft them earlier?

To be clear: Rangers drafting has been fine. Not great but when you take draft position into consideration, it's not as bad as some fans think. But when Kakko and Lafreniere aren't producing, the last thing I would blame is drafting. They were the consensus picks where they were selected.

I think it's a little early to point to them not producing though --- especially on this roster right now.

In what is a very, very small sample size, Kakko has the most goals in his draft class and the second most points --- behind the guy who went first. He trails Hughes by four points --- all of which seem to have come against the Rangers.

He's been getting his chances and has been anywhere from a 20 to 30 goal pace in this very young season. Frankly, he's come within a short hair of having 3 or 4 goals at this point.

Lafreniere's last couple of games have not been his strongest, but he hasn't looked out of place in the NHL. At this point he barely played a full preseason worth of games in a normal season. He's got a goal in 9 games, or what works out to about 9 over a full 82 game schedule --- again in a very small (too small) sample size. He's another one who could easily have 3 or 4 goals at this point.

But what exactly should they be producing at right now?

Who's there center?

Chytil is on the IR. Zibanejad might as well be too.

That leaves who? Stroke...I mean Strome? Howden?

Who's centering these kids?

I think I'd feel different if this team was firing on all cylinders and these kids weren't getting chances or looked over-matched. But none of those things has been apparent yet.

So how do they compare to their teammates thus far? In that sense, I think they've held their own more often than not.

I'm just not seeing an emerging problem at this point in time.

 

[SA16]

Does anyone else find it a little weird that Panarin is scoring at the same pace as last year while Strome isn't scoring at all even though we were told the two have amazing chemistry and bring out the best in each other? What happened? Having a higher on-ice sh% than any Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin etc. season in fact wasn't sustainable?

 

[Edge]

I agree, we're a year or so away from becoming a success like Tampa.

I like to add, once Tampa got rid of Boucher and hired Cooper, they have been contenders and a top team in the league. Boucher lasted 2 1/2 years. Maybe the parallels continue with the Rangers

Tick tock Quinn.

To that point, I never have and still don't see Quinn as the guy who is coaching this squad when they're in their window.

I do think he will probably be a guy who doesn't quite get the credit he deserves for laying the building blocks with the young talent that the Rangers next coach will be able to exploit more fully.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I think it's a little early to point to them not producing though --- especially on this roster right now.

In what is a very, very small sample size, Kakko has the most goals in his draft class and the second most points --- behind the guy who went first. He trails Hughes by four points --- all of which seem to have come against the Rangers.

He's been getting his chances and has been anywhere from a 20 to 30 goal pace in this very young season. Frankly, he's come within a short hair of having 3 or 4 goals at this point.

Lafreniere's last couple of games have not been his strongest, but he hasn't looked out of place in the NHL. At this point he barely played a full preseason worth of games in a normal season. He's got a goal in 9 games, or what works out to about 18 over a full 82 game schedule --- again in a very small (too small) sample size. He's another one who could easily have 3 or 4 goals at this point.

But what exactly should they be producing at right now?

Who's there center?

Chytil is on the IR. Zibanejad might as well be too.

That leaves who? Stroke...I mean Strome? Howden?

Who's centering these kids?

I think I'd feel different if this team was firing on all cylinders and these kids weren't getting chances or looked over-matched. But none of those things has been apparent yet.

So how do they compare to their teammates thus far? In that sense, I think they've held their own more often than not.

I'm just not seeing an emerging problem at this point in time.

9 goals over a 82 game schedule*.

 

[Avery16]

Does anyone else find it a little weird that Panarin is scoring at the same pace as last year while Strome isn't scoring at all even though we were told the two have amazing chemistry and bring out the best in each other? What happened? Having a higher on-ice sh% than any Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin etc. season in fact wasn't sustainable?

Call me shocked that PDG has more points than Strome. Maybe he should center Panarin.

 

[Edge]

9 goals over a 82 game schedule*.

Correct and corrected.

 

[duhmetreE]

To that point, I never have and still don't see Quinn as the guy who is coaching this squad when they're in their window.

I do think he will probably be a guy who doesn't quite get the credit he deserves for laying the building blocks with the young talent that the Rangers next coach will be able to exploit more fully.

He received his gratitude over the past 2 years... now we've outgrown him

He served his purpose but he is no longer what we need IMO

 

[wafflepadsave]

Calgary has Derek Ryan’s 3.25M buried right now. Bennett makes 2.5x2. Ryan is expiring. DeAngelo makes 4.8M.

DeAngelo for Bennett and Ryan is perfect. Ryan falls off the books after this year but balances salaries for this year. Calgary is left with one year of ADA and we’re left with one year of Bennett, both RFAs after. We can include Gauthier to give them a replacement forward if he isn’t gonna play here.

Bennett was #4OA in 2014, Tony was #19. Tony has had more success but has more warts. Bennett has some small chance of benefitting from a change of scenery, but brings desirable traits we’re lacking either way.

Would any team take Ryan at the deadline? I’ll take a 4th.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Calgary has Derek Ryan’s 3.25M buried right now. Bennett makes 2.5x2. Ryan is expiring. DeAngelo makes 4.8M.

DeAngelo for Bennett and Ryan is perfect. Ryan falls off the books after this year but balances salaries for this year. Calgary is left with one year of ADA and we’re left with one year of Bennett, both RFAs after. We can include Gauthier to give them a replacement forward if he isn’t gonna play here.

Bennett was #4OA in 2014, Tony was #19. Tony has had more success but has more warts. Bennett has some small chance of benefitting from a change of scenery, but brings desirable traits we’re lacking either way.

Would any team take Ryan at the deadline? I’ll take a 4th.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Calgary has Derek Ryan’s 3.25M buried right now. Bennett makes 2.5x2. Ryan is expiring. DeAngelo makes 4.8M.

DeAngelo for Bennett and Ryan is perfect. Ryan falls off the books after this year but balances salaries for this year. Calgary is left with one year of ADA and we’re left with one year of Bennett, both RFAs after. We can include Gauthier to give them a replacement forward if he isn’t gonna play here.

Bennett was #4OA in 2014, Tony was #19. Tony has had more success but has more warts. Bennett has some small chance of benefitting from a change of scenery, but brings desirable traits we’re lacking either way.

Would any team take Ryan at the deadline? I’ll take a 4th.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Strome has looked okay lately, at least. Maybe right after they took him off the powerplay? It would be so good for the team if Kakko could really get going with those two.

 

[Edge]

He received his gratitude over the past 2 years... now we've outgrown him

He served his purpose but he is no longer what we need IMO

Funny thing is, I still don't think we're there and I'm not sure a "win-now" coach has the impact people think it does.

Frankly, I think some fans are fatigued, I think COVID only adds to the fatigue, and kind of like rehabilitation there's a desire for it all to be over already.

But it's not, and it won't be. This is the transition year that everyone was warned about. And part of that warning included a lot of what we're seeing now.

But, let's be honest, people don't wanna hear that shit. So a lot of reactions tend to go one of two ways: either it's dismissed for a more optimistic view, or it's heeded but still viewed as an unacceptable outcome that inherently proves something is wrong.

 

[duhmetreE]

To that point, I never have and still don't see Quinn as the guy who is coaching this squad when they're in their window.

I do think he will probably be a guy who doesn't quite get the credit he deserves for laying the building blocks with the young talent that the Rangers next coach will be able to exploit more fully.

have you had any impression on whether the Rangers would go with a NHL vet like Gallant/Boudreau/Babcock for their next coach?

or would they take a flier on another rookie head coach? Montgomery could be someone somewhere in the middle.

Is Brind'amour signed yet?

 

[Edge]

have you had any impression on whether the Rangers would go with a NHL vet like Gallant/Boudreau/Babcock for their next coach?

or would they take a flier on another rookie head coach? Montgomery could be someone somewhere in the middle.

I think they're next coach will be a veteran. But I also don't think he's currently out there on the market.

 

[Avery16]

Strome has looked okay lately, at least. Maybe right after they took him off the powerplay? It would be so good for the team if Kakko could really get going with those two.

Throw more talent at the problem to cover up Strome's relative lack of

 

[duhmetreE]

Funny thing is, I still don't think we're there and I'm not sure a "win-now" coach has the impact people think it does.

Frankly, I think some fans are fatigued, I think COVID only adds to the fatigue, and kind of like rehabilitation there's a desire for it all to be over already.

But it's not, and it won't be. This is the transition year that everyone was warned about. And part of that warning included a lot of what we're seeing now.

But, let's be honest, people don't wanna hear that shit. So a lot of reactions tend to go one of two ways: either it's dismissed for a more optimistic view, or it's heeded but still viewed as an unacceptable outcome that inherently proves something is wrong.

I do not care about young players struggling.

I do care when the team looks lifeless and the structure, or lack there of, is not acceptable. We do not look properly coached in that perspective.

It seems its become 'coaching individuals' instead of 'coaching a team'.

 

[Edge]

I do not care about young players struggling.

I do care when the team looks lifeless and the structure, or lack there of, is not acceptable. We do not look properly coached in that perspective.

I think we're sitting at 3-4-2 and with a couple of different bounces or health issues, we're maybe at 4-3-2 or 5-3-1.

And that difference right now is the difference between picking 5th in the draft, or being tied for the final playoff spot in the division, with a game in-hand.

And the latter is pretty much where I thought they might be on their high-end.

I would certainly like to see a lot more out of the veteran talent at this point though.

 

[kovazub94]

Friedman was on SiriusXM NHL this morning and said the Rangers have no interest in taking back a bad contract or retaining on DeAngelo. They will do equal money for this year or buy him out at 1/3 after the season.

Wouldn't retaining what amounts to an equivalent of the buyout in offseason be acceptable? I think there's a bit of posturing there on the Rangers side but they likely will allow for some flexibility - but only the the extend it's not a completely terrible contract.

 

[Shadowtron]

I think it's a little early to point to them not producing though --- especially on this roster right now.

In what is a very, very small sample size, Kakko has the most goals in his draft class and the second most points --- behind the guy who went first. He trails Hughes by four points --- all of which seem to have come against the Rangers.

He's been getting his chances and has been anywhere from a 20 to 30 goal pace in this very young season. Frankly, he's come within a short hair of having 3 or 4 goals at this point.

Lafreniere's last couple of games have not been his strongest, but he hasn't looked out of place in the NHL. At this point he barely played a full preseason worth of games in a normal season. He's got a goal in 9 games, or what works out to about 18 over a full 82 game schedule --- again in a very small (too small) sample size. He's another one who could easily have 3 or 4 goals at this point.

But what exactly should they be producing at right now?

Who's there center?

Chytil is on the IR. Zibanejad might as well be too.

That leaves who? Stroke...I mean Strome? Howden?

Who's centering these kids?

I think I'd feel different if this team was firing on all cylinders and these kids weren't getting chances or looked over-matched. But none of those things has been apparent yet.

So how do they compare to their teammates thus far? In that sense, I think they've held their own more often than not.

I'm just not seeing an emerging problem at this point in time.

This is just one of those seasons where the team and their luck seem to be going North and South.

 

[Edge]

This is just one of those seasons where the team and their luck seem to be going North and South.

We're also at that weird part of the year where a two goal night could suddenly have a guy on 40 goal pace. It's just so hard to look at numbers at this point. That's why I think you've gotta look at how they're playing when it comes to the young talent.