Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXXV - French disconnect in NYC?

[Savant]

Okay, so based on that belief, what about the progress of Howden and ADA? Or Chytil?

Again. Chytil is another guy that took multiple years for Quinn to figure out. Showed little in first two years. Howden...come on. Replacement level 4th line center that isn’t good in any other role but is over-trusted to go above his weight. DeAngelo had a great season last year, but he hasn’t exactly built off of it yet and he isn’t doing anything to raise his value. I don’t think it’s enough. Even if the youth is doing better than the vets, the Rangers have one win so he’s not exactly building anything here.

 

[Savant]

Yeah because I knew about the guy getting fired by Vegas but this is the first I’m hearing about Vegas making the SCF.

Obviously he can get a lot out of a team over a short period of time.

But you don’t find it a little strange that Gallant gets fired after 2 1/2 years everywhere he goes? Or that he was fired almost exactly 1 year ago and is still not with a new NHL team?

I don’t care if it’s short term. It isn’t a marriage. It’s about raising the level now. Torts wasn’t exactly a long term kind of guy either. Passing on a good coach to stick with an unproven (at best) coach is dumb. He doesn’t need to be here for a dynasty he needs to teach NHL hockey. We don’t know that Quinn can do that.

 

[Edge]

Howden sucks
ADA came through other systems and is also an asshole
Chytil AHL coach is good
Buchnevich AV
Fox he’s just good/NCAA
Lindgren AHL/other systems
Miller he’s just good/NCAA

And I’m sure that’s how true for some beliefs out there.

Nevermind that many of the same people weren’t impressed by Lindgren in college or the AHL, or that Miller was supposedly ruined by the disaster that was Granato and Wisconsin, or that Chytil survived the wasteland that is our AHL development, or AV couldn’t develop talent he didn’t inherit from Torts, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Which, joking aside, makes these conversations difficult. Because the goal posts keep getting moved on some of these topics.

And again, I’m not enamored with Quinn be any stretch. I just think there are criticisms that are fair and grounded in truth, and then there’s the ones that really attempt to pile on or at least stretch the complaint a little out of context.

 

[Edge]

Again. Chytil is another guy that took multiple years for Quinn to figure out. Showed little in first two years. Howden...come on. Replacement level 4th line center that isn’t good in any other role but is over-trusted to go above his weight. DeAngelo had a great season last year, but he hasn’t exactly built off of it yet and he isn’t doing anything to raise his value. I don’t think it’s enough. Even if the youth is doing better than the vets, the Rangers have one win so he’s not exactly building anything here.

lol, Chytil is a kid who is just barely 21. He was a 21st overall pick three drafts ago. He’s not a 7 years vet or an RC car that comes out of the box ready to run.

Maybe the problem isn’t Quinn “figuring the kids out” so much as it’s the “kids figuring themselves out.”

Because when you’re talking about 18-21 year olds, that’s pretty much what you’re dealing with.

 

[Fitzy]

Bingo.

I can’t tell you specifically what or how Quinn has done to help the young players along. But I can tell you there’s very clear and obvious progress from them.

And to your point, if we’re going to blame him for things we don’t like, or express the belief that his approach has hurt players (with just as little evidence of what or how Quinn has hurt them), then there has to be some kind of balance there.

So that leads me right back to what I’ve been saying for a little while - I don’t really have a problem with how the youth are coming along. I have a problem with how the vets are leading and performing.

I'll add goat lending to the list, but that doesn't fall to Quinn in a meaningful way.

Was really hoping that if one goalie started slow the other would step in and seize the moment but it hasnt happened yet.

Still can't believe Georgiev was too timid to come play the puck away on that breakaway.

 

[Edge]

I'll add goat lending to the list, but that doesn't fall to Quinn in a meaningful way.

Was really hoping that if one goalie started slow the other would step in and seize the moment but it hasnt happened yet.

Still can't believe Georgiev was too timid to come play the puck away on that breakaway.

One of the weird things was that stretch when the advanced stats and the eye test people were all in agreement that the Rangers seemed to be playing better than their opposition and somehow only managed to go 1-4.

That about sums up the first stretch of the season. Even when we agree, we still don’t arrive at a happy place.

 

[Cheapshot]

But didn’t it come out after they were outed that more players had a problem with sully then they did with torts during their time here?

 

[Fitzy]

You all keep pretending that if Quinn gets let go there’s no chance we end up with Guy Boucher as the next coach

 

[Savant]

lol, Chytil is a kid who is just barely 21. He was a 21st overall pick three drafts ago. He’s not a 7 years vet or an RC car that comes out of the box ready to run.

Maybe the problem isn’t Quinn “figuring the kids out” so much as it’s the “kids figuring themselves out.”

Because when you’re talking about 18-21 year olds, that’s pretty much what you’re dealing with.

Maybe? But again where is the balance? What are the expectations? Slowly develop at an individual level or improve the team? I don’t see it. Maybe I’m wrong and that’s fine but I don’t see it. I don’t think anyone can justify Quinn doing a good job.

 

[SA16]

No matter who the coach is the board isn't going to like them and a large reason is because they are all very similar and do the same bad things. It's just a different name to complain about.

 

[Edge]

Maybe? But again where is the balance? What are the expectations? Slowly develop at an individual level or improve the team? I don’t see it. Maybe I’m wrong and that’s fine but I don’t see it. I don’t think anyone can justify Quinn doing a good job.

I think when you’re dealing with kids who are 18-20, it’s a different ballgame than the kids who are 21-23. And I think we also see that with how the evolution of Howden, Chytil and others has looked. I don’t think we can necessarily group all youngsters together without having a distinction there.

Here’s my thing - if you look at the 18 skaters who are in the Rangers lineup on a given night, the kids between 19-22 years of age consistently are in our top half, and in more than a few cases our top quarter.

That doesn’t typically happen with a coach who is ruining youth. And it’s certainly not been something we’ve seen with previous coaches.

Now, the play of the veterans and other issues? Yeah, that’s worth questioning. That’s fair.

 

[duhmetreE]

One of the weird things was that stretch when the advanced stats and the eye test people were all in agreement that the Rangers seemed to be playing better than their opposition and somehow only managed to go 1-4.

That about sums up the first stretch of the season. Even when we agree, we still don’t arrive at a happy place.

I thought we have been sloppy with the puck. Like we haven't practiced in 10 months.

I had a glimmer of hope, that we were turning the corner in the 1st period against Buffalo. Tape2tape passes. We looked crisp. Supporting the puck, forechecking and transitioning well....

It all faded away with the Jack Johnson penalty... Then the Miller goal.. Then that 2nd period... Emotional rollercoaster.

 

[Savant]

I think when you’re dealing with kids who are 18-20, it’s a different ballgame than the kids who are 21-23. And I think we also see that with how the evolution of Howden, Chytil and others has looked. I don’t think we can necessarily group all youngsters together without having a distinction there.

Here’s my thing - if you look at the 18 skaters who are in the Rangers lineup on a given night, the kids between 19-22 years of age consistently are in our top half, and in more than a few cases our top quarter.

That doesn’t typically happen with a coach who is ruining youth. And it’s certainly not been something we’ve seen with previous coaches.

Now, the play of the veterans and other issues? Yeah, that’s worth questioning. That’s fair.

The Rangers are still a NHL team. They need to do both. Quinn can’t hold this job if he can only focus on one age group at a time. There is still no NHL system in place, there is no identity with the team and it shows almost every night. It’s a problem.

 

[NYR94]

Lots of teams have looked sloppy. Taking a lot of penalties too. Berube was pretty ticked off about the penalties last night after the Blues game, but seemed to be partially blaming it on the referees (who also didn't get a preseason).

 

[Bob Richards]

No matter who the coach is the board isn't going to like them and a large reason is because they are all very similar and do the same bad things. It's just a different name to complain about.

Whenever I've read another team board discussing all the reasons they hate their coach, you could replace that coach's name with Torts or AV or Quinn and it sounds exactly the same lol.

 

[mas0764]

I am not demanding Quinn be immediately ousted and I do think he’s done a good job with some of the kids. Buch for one, ADA for another.

But I simply refuse to believe that Kakko and Lafreniere, despite being billed as way above average for first/second overall picks, have to own their struggles and it’s all on them cause they need more time. I do not buy it. I do not buy that Lafreniere in year 1 and Kakko in year two do not look capable of approaching Svechnikov’s 0.45 ppg pace in his own rookie year. Lafreniere has a goose egg. Kakko has 2 points in six games but they are two one-timer goals and he does not really control the puck or the play in the offensive zone yet and it was supposed to be his specialty. He does not look electric at all. I do not believe that these two guys are just whiffs on expectations. There is SOMETHING that the staff isn’t doing right with these kids. In conjunction with Kravtsov and Andersson it becomes more apparent; there is probably something off with what they are asking of these kids. Youth dominates the league like at no other time, I do not buy that Kakko wasn’t ready to look like Svechnikov. Not after I see it repeating with Lafreniere.

 

[NYR94]

Whenever I've read another team board discussing all the reasons they hate their coach, you could replace that coach's name with Torts or AV or Quinn and it sounds exactly the same lol.

Every board is the same, right down to the inexplicable and mind numbing obsession with debating who should be the 12th forward and 6th defenseman ad infinitum.

 

[Avery16]

Hot take/baseless speculation: any problems between Quinn and the team are because he spends too much time and focus on the kids, and the veterans aren’t happy and/or have zoned him out.

Explain JJ and Smith over Hajek

 

[Avery16]

We got the wrong Q

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

We got the wrong Q

Gonna have to ask the mods to move this to the Tony thread

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Gonna have to ask the mods to move this to the Tony thread

LOL

 

[SA16]

Every board is the same, right down to the inexplicable and mind numbing obsession with debating who should be the 12th forward and 6th defenseman ad infinitum.

Well that's because those guys matter. The impact of Jack Johnson over a replacement player is probably more than the impact of losing Chytil.

 

[JCProdigy]

I mean, you can dislike him all you want but he has a Stanley Cup, Two Jack Adams Trophies and nominated 3 others...hard to really call someone with that hardware an idiot.

He was using a first person narrative to describe what many on the board were saying during their tenures here, not his own personal beliefs.

I don’t think our guy is out there right now.

All things being equal, I think Quenneville would be a very good choice for when this team is a little older.

Another strong candidate would likely be Mike Sullivan.

Ah Mike Sullivan, who only received heaps of praise during his tenure here as assistant coach. BTW we probably wouldn't want him because he sucks now too according to many Pens fans.

Roster-wise, if I were Quinn, I think it's time to take the dilapidated carcass that is Strome off that first PP and give Lafreniere some time there. The extra time and space for Laffy may result in a nice play or two and give him more confidence. Plus it will bump up his TOI with that extra time solely feeding into his offensive abilities

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Ah Mike Sullivan, who only received heaps of praise during his tenure here as assistant coach. BTW we probably wouldn't want him because he sucks now too according to many Pens fans.

See Quinn is more handsome than Sullivan. But Sullivan appears to have some sort of hockey system that he runs

So it’s a difficult choice but a fair trade off

 

[NYRangers16]

It's difficult for use to parse out what individual player failures/successes are influenced by the coach, and to what degree.

But I get your point that if we are going to blame every disappointment as if Quinn himself made it happen, we also have to give him all the credit for the improvements.

By the same logic, can we necessarily give him credit for the succeses either?