Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXXV - French disconnect in NYC?

[NYSPORTS]

That’s why they get paid the big bucks. Find a way to get the cap off the books. Strome and ADA. I’m not delusional to think the return will be good, but if they can shed the dollars that will be the real value.

ah, it was pretty easy to clean up the books prior to this

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Oh, that’s not what I remember on here. At all.

In fact, it’s adherence to the timeline was quite a fun topic on here. With similar rebuttals claiming past “ dead wood” had longer timelines than they did as well.

I honestly dont remember Torts or AV getting bombarded with FIRE THEM speeches on here in their first couple years. We were going to the Conference Finals and Finals with them. Torts finally turned the team around and placed accountability back after Renney did absolutely nothing for 4 years. Never understood the love some gave him here, guy only got one more coaching gig after that and that experiment didn't last very long either.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Gallant is a players coach. And that works well for a year or two before things start breaking down. What he’s shown thus far is that players tend to start tuning him out pretty quickly and the ROI diminishes from there.

Gallant at this point would only add another transition piece to the journey. He’s not the answer.

Who would you hire as the next coach if you were making the decision?

 

[Edge]

I honestly dont remember Torts or AV getting bombarded with FIRE THEM speeches on here in their first couple years. We were going to the Conference Finals and Finals with them. Torts finally turned the team around and placed accountability back after Renney did absolutely nothing for 4 years. Never understood the love some gave him here, guy only got one more coaching gig after that and that experiment didn't last very long either.

Torts was the fiery idiot whose teams had to play defense because he couldn’t develop an offensive plan ( those groans grew louder with the use of Gaborik and then Nash). Along the way he destroyed our roster with his diving on the puck strategies, despite having the best goalie in the world.

AV was the smug idiot who inherited a roster from Torts and had people claiming we made it to the finals in spite of him, not because of him. So those snipes starter 2014/15 timeframe.

In the 23 years I’ve been here, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a coach stay in the board’s good graces much beyond the second season.

 

[Synergy27]

Why are we limiting ourselves to known quantities and retreads? I say we have an essay writing contest and give the bench to the guy that writes the longest, most well reasoned entry.

 

[Edge]

Who would you hire as the next coach if you were making the decision?

I don’t think our guy is out there right now.

All things being equal, I think Quenneville would be a very good choice for when this team is a little older.

Another strong candidate would likely be Mike Sullivan.

 

[Edge]

Why are we limiting ourselves to known quantities and retreads? I say we have an essay writing contest and give the bench to the guy that writes the longest, most well reasoned entry.

Hand written.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

There were people saying AV was a serial ruiner of young players because, like, Chris Kreider didn't score enough and JT Miller was inconsistent. And HFNYR as a whole probably gave those arguments too much credence instead of going, like, what are you even talking about. (Obviously the atmosphere turned after the Ottawa series, as it should have). But if we miss on Kakko and Lafreniere, or if they're just Kreider and Miller in five years, we're in pretty rarified air. We did something special.

I would be fine with a weird, dysfunctional team that couldn't win faceoffs, or had Jack Johnson hanging around for some reason, or didn't have enough #grit, or whatever the issue is if those two were playing and producing in line with other successful top draft picks.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Torts was the fiery idiot whose teams had to play defense because he couldn’t develop an offensive plan ( those groans grew louder with the use of Gaborik and then Nash). Along the way he destroyed our roster with his diving on the puck strategies, despite having the best goalie in the world.

AV was the smug idiot who inherited a roster from Torts and had people claiming we made it to the finals in spite of him, not because of him. So those snipes starter 2014/15 timeframe.

In the 23 years I’ve been here, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a coach stay in the board’s good graces much beyond the second season.

This was a very, very, very, VERY small minority at that time.

I remember this because I was in that minority. Any coach who will move heaven and earth to insert Tanner Glass onto a contending roster (where we had SEVERAL better options as extras) is a moron. The tide didn't really turn for him on here until after the 2017 ECSF, which to this day is the worst coaching job I've seen here (makes current Quinn look like Bowman.)

 

[Synergy27]

I’d also entertain the idea of an AI coach. Have some nerd develop an ML model that soaks up all historical hockey stories, pop psychology and economics literature, and then scrapes the web for Twitter, Reddit and HF trends to make lineup and tactical decisions.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

If the Penguins fire Sullivan in the off-season now that Rutherford is gone, I hope the Rangers get rid of Quinn ASAP

He’s my preferred guy

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Torts was the fiery idiot whose teams had to play defense because he couldn’t develop an offensive plan ( those groans grew louder with the use of Gaborik and then Nash). Along the way he destroyed our roster with his diving on the puck strategies, despite having the best goalie in the world.

AV was the smug idiot who inherited a roster from Torts and had people claiming we made it to the finals in spite of him, not because of him. So those snipes starter 2014/15 timeframe.

In the 23 years I’ve been here, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a coach stay in the board’s good graces much beyond the second season.

I mean, you can dislike him all you want but he has a Stanley Cup, Two Jack Adams Trophies and nominated 3 others...hard to really call someone with that hardware an idiot.

 

[Edge]

This was a very, very, very, VERY small minority at that time.

I remember this because I was in that minority. Any coach who will move heaven and earth to insert Tanner Glass onto a contending roster (where we had SEVERAL better options as extras) is a moron. The tide didn't really turn for him on here until after the 2017 ECSF, which to this day is the worst coaching job I've seen here (makes current Quinn look like Bowman.)

Yeah, see by 2017 those whispers were screams. The real turning point was the regression people felt took place in 2015-2016. That was when this board really got hostile.

There wasn’t only 12 months between the board turning and AV being fired. That would’ve seemed like a cake walk.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I’d also entertain the idea of an AI coach. Have some nerd develop an ML model that soaks up all historical hockey stories, pop psychology and economics literature, and then scrapes the web for Twitter, Reddit and HF trends to make lineup and tactical decisions.

So basically hire sir avgard or what ever his name is?

 

[Savant]

Lmao Vegas fired Gallant after 2 seasons.

Vegas fired Gallant after a cup appearance with an expansion team. And keeping them in playoff position.
This is also true

 

[NYR94]

If the Penguins fire Sullivan in the off-season now that Rutherford is gone, I hope the Rangers get rid of Quinn ASAP

He’s my preferred guy

Pens fans seem pretty down on Sullivan lately from what I've read on their board. We'll see how Rutherford's replacement feels about Sullivan eventually.

 

[Edge]

I mean, you can dislike him all you want but he has a Stanley Cup, Two Jack Adams Trophies and nominated 3 others...hard to really call someone with that hardware an idiot.

I agree.

Between the two of them, they’d been to three cup finals and been nominated for coach of the year.

And yet there we were.

 

[Savant]

Is he not?

Kakko looks light years better, ditto for Howden, we talk about how smooth the transition for Fox and Miller to the NHL has been.

We can point to flaws with Quinn, but I don’t think youth has been one of them.

I think Quinn has been good with players that have been though the college ranks because that is what he knows. Kakko looks better but he also couldn’t not have looked much worse. Lafreniere isn’t putting any production up either. Both of these guys have more to give. I don’t think Quinn gets a gold star for misusing Kakko for a year before figuring it out. Making similar mistakes with Lafreniere too. Line shuffling inconsistent usage. It’s like deja by. He doesn’t prepare the team and he doesn’t learn. Quinn has more closely shown that he is not a NHL level coach than that he can stick. He shouldn’t be getting a free pass. Only look at Krueger taking his lunch money last night. Buffalo played a much smarter game and it showed.

 

[aufheben]

Is he not?

Kakko looks light years better, ditto for Howden, we talk about how smooth the transition for Fox and Miller to the NHL has been.

We can point to flaws with Quinn, but I don’t think youth has been one of them.

Hot take/baseless speculation: any problems between Quinn and the team are because he spends too much time and focus on the kids, and the veterans aren’t happy and/or have zoned him out.

 

[Fitzy]

I don't like some of the lack of chemistry and roster choices we've seen, but I do want to see what the team's record looks like WITHOUT .890 goaltending first.

 

[Edge]

I think Quinn has been good with players that have been though the college ranks because that is what he knows. Kakko looks better but he also couldn’t not have looked much worse. Lafreniere isn’t putting any production up either. Both of these guys have more to give. I don’t think Quinn gets a gold star for misusing Kakko for a year before figuring it out. Making similar mistakes with Lafreniere too. Line shuffling inconsistent usage. It’s like deja by. He doesn’t prepare the team and he doesn’t learn. Quinn has more closely shown that he is not a NHL level coach than that he can stick. He shouldn’t be getting a free pass. Only look at Krueger taking his lunch money last night. Buffalo played a much smarter game and it showed.

Okay, so based on that belief, what about the progress of Howden and ADA? Or Chytil?

 

[Fitzy]

Okay, so based on that belief, what about the progress of Howden and ADA? Or Chytil?

It's difficult for use to parse out what individual player failures/successes are influenced by the coach, and to what degree.

But I get your point that if we are going to blame every disappointment as if Quinn himself made it happen, we also have to give him all the credit for the improvements.

 

[aufheben]

Vegas fired Gallant after a cup appearance with an expansion team. And keeping them in playoff position.
This is also true

Yeah because I knew about the guy getting fired by Vegas but this is the first I’m hearing about Vegas making the SCF.

Obviously he can get a lot out of a team over a short period of time.

But you don’t find it a little strange that Gallant gets fired after 2 1/2 years everywhere he goes? Or that he was fired almost exactly 1 year ago and is still not with a new NHL team?

 

[Edge]

It's difficult for use to parse out what individual player failures/successes are influenced by the coach, and to what degree.

But I get your point that if we are going to blame every disappointment as if Quinn himself made it happen, we also have to give him all the credit for the improvements.

Bingo.

I can’t tell you specifically what or how Quinn has done to help the young players along. But I can tell you there’s very clear and obvious progress from them.

And to your point, if we’re going to blame him for things we don’t like, or express the belief that his approach has hurt players (with just as little evidence of what or how Quinn has hurt them), then there has to be some kind of balance there.

So that leads me right back to what I’ve been saying for a little while - I don’t really have a problem with how the youth are coming along. I have a problem with how the vets are leading and performing.

 

[aufheben]

Okay, so based on that belief, what about the progress of Howden and ADA? Or Chytil?

Howden sucks
ADA other systems, asshole
Chytil AHL
Buchnevich AV
Fox he’s just good/NCAA
Lindgren AHL/other systems
Miller he’s just good/NCAA
Georgiev goalie, doesn’t count
Kakko yeah took him long enough
Lafreniere retire at this point