Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXXIII

[Off Sides]

DeAngelo isn’t worth anything near Zegras

you guys are setting yourself up for disappointment when he gets traded for a middle 6 forward with upside lol

I was thinking middle 6 with intangibles and a bland prospect the Rangers like because they liked him at the draft like 2-3 years ago.

 

[mas0764]

DeAngelo isn’t worth anything near Zegras

you guys are setting yourself up for disappointment when he gets traded for a middle 6 forward with upside lol

I'm not really expecting DeAngelo to be traded for Zegras. I'm just arguing against the notion that if such a deal were available, it would be the Rangers saying no.

They'd say yes. They'd say yes for Zegras and they'd say yes for someone less than Zegras too, is my bet, even if they'd never played in the NHL yet.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I'm not really expecting DeAngelo to be traded for Zegras. I'm just arguing against the notion that if such a deal were available, it would be the Rangers saying no.

They'd say yes. They'd say yes for Zegras and they'd say yes for someone less than Zegras too, is my bet, even if they'd never played in the NHL yet.

Depends on the prospect but generally yes I’d agree

Tony is a good player but if you can get a long term core piece they’d be foolish not too. We’re not looking to contend this year, and next years 50/50

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

I was thinking middle 6 with intangibles and a bland prospect the Rangers like because they liked him at the draft like 2-3 years ago.

Bland Prospect - Check
Middle 6 with "intangibles" - Check(maybe, that was the rumor anyway)
Rangers liked him at the draft 2-3 years ago - Check

The Rangers have just Acquired forward Lias Anderson from the LA Kings in return for defenseman ADA, and a 2nd.

 

[True Blue]

People we’re not getting Zegras. And ADA will never score 70 points those are ridiculously high expectations.

He was pacing 60 last year and is only 24 years old. Is it a stretch to think that he continues to develop? What if it were 65? Is that still ridiculously high?

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Bland Prospect - Check
Middle 6 with "intangibles" - Check(maybe, that was the rumor anyway)
Rangers liked him at the draft 2-3 years ago - Check

The Rangers have just Acquired forward Lias Anderson from the LA Kings in return for defenseman ADA, and a 2nd.

Cant wait, dude basically gave his employer an issue because he couldn’t manage his video game time.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I thought the issue of the Hockey Gamer was still a mystery

 

[True Blue]

You yourself are advocating that they not deal current roster production for futures. That is "win now."

No. Win now is to begin to trade off prospects and picks for major acquisitions. They are nowhere near that stage.

I think the problem is your lack of reasonability in accepting the nuance of the argument and what our insiders are saying. Frankly it mirrors your intransigence on the "convert to center," debate.

I think that the difference is that you equate possibilities with probabilities. I take what could happen as just that and then proceed that as could is not nearly should, that probabilities point against it. And is such, you could speculate on what could happen

I think we've all heard Edge say they were exploring a Lindholm trade, but we also heard him say they loved Lundell and had him 6th on their board. We also witnessed that they almost moved Buch for 8th overall (Zegras) just one draft ago. We all heard JD say they want to make the playoffs; but we also all heard him say patience and they are gonna do this the right way (which indicates drafting, acquiring and developing young, elite talent). They never came out and said they were done with that at all.

We also all heard him say that the love for Lundell (no matter where he was ranked) was NOWHERE near to what they felt about Zegras (no matter where he was ranked). That alludes to their feeling about a player, as opposed to a number on their draft board in a particular draft year. You seem to want to not pay attention to that. We also heard him and others state that there is no desire to trade a Buchnevich or a DeANgelo for picks and prospects. Yet you seem to want to ignore that.

It's hardly outside the realm of possibility that they would re-examine that type of deal under the right circumstances. I agree the ship has probably sailed on moving long term roster pieces for completely unknowable assets like future picks or guys who are years and years away with no certain development trajectory. But as you move along the trajectory from "safe roster spot," to "likely to be displaced by Braden Schneider as soon as he's ready," and you move along the trajectory from "shot in the dark prospect," to "can't-miss Alexis Lafreniere-like stud," it becomes more and more likely that they'd make such a move, until the point where it reaches "certainty," that they'd do such a deal.

Of course there is a right circumstance. However, what your right circumstance seems to be, as to what Gorton's is, seem to be two different things.

Schneider is not now ready. We can pick up the conversation on who he is pushing out when he gets there. Until then, it is nothing but dreams.

The parameters you are setting for when they would and wouldn't make such a deal do not line up with any available evidence other than your own interpretation of their words and actions, and on top of that, do not make sense under a real-life application. Again, it would make zero sense NOT to trade DeAngelo for Zegras, if Schneider is almost ready to make the jump and replace him. Insisting that you get existing NHL talent that may top out as a 2/3C on a non-ELC is simple bad business and bad franchise building if you could otherwise get a Zegras who projects as a 1/2C and is a year or less away from entering the pros.

For the sake of this discussion, let's subtract Zegras for two reasons. 1) he may be an outlier based on how love management felt for him. 2) It makes no sense for Anaheim to trade him for an established player and that salary right now. So insert another name. As to the paramenters, not trying to be flip here but since these debate started there have been no trades for strictly picks and prospects. Any rumors involving a trade, involved a player who would step in TODAY to help NOW. Not a few years from now. So one of us appears to have more realistic parameters than the other.

I find it kind of nuts you are trying to argue that they wouldn't trade ADA for Zegras. Of course they would.

The possibly could. I have made multiple statements regarding why I believe that Zegras may be an outlier. And as a trade of DeANgelo for Zegras is not looking like good trade partners, it is utterly unrealistic.

From there, there are other names they would certainly entertain as well. Again, a long list? Maybe not. But it's a list.

What is your list? Who are your realistic targets and realistic trade partners?

This logic also extends to guys like Buch. Whether or not we have a RW ready to duplicate his production. Example: If Byfield, or Stutzle, or Jack Hughes, or Zegras was offered for Buch, they probably jump on that deal as well. As we drift down the future impact matrix to players like Newhook or Lundell who aren't as high-ceiling or are farther away, it becomes less and less likely that they'd be willing to do such a deal, but it's not a zero percent chance.

I am not sure of where you are going? Are we debating trades in the land of make-belief or trying to have a serious conversation? If the former, I am sorry as I have misunderstood. Sure, in such play land, let's discuss trading DeAngelo for one of those names. If it is the latter, yes, the chances are not zero. But they still fall into the not very realistic area of the bell curve.

Frankly I believe the limiting factor in this discussion is that other teams wouldn't be willing to give up the young talent, as opposed to the Rangers being unwilling to acquire it for current roster pieces. That is why you haven't seen these trades materialize; not because the Rangers haven't asked. Ie, it was the Oilers who said no to the Buch-for-Zegras deal in 2019, not the Rangers.

Teams that are rebuilding have certain needs and wants and budgets. Teams that are trying to make the playoffs also have certain needs and wants. Which is why you do not see the latter dealing established players to the former for their prospects.

 

[Trxjw]

Nothing really new here, but PLD stuff from 31 Thoughts:

2. According to several sources, interested teams are “not screwing around” when it comes to Pierre-Luc Dubois. I’m not sure what path GM Jarmo Kekalainen is going to walk, but Columbus knows the centre is coveted. No one wants to lose out on an opportunity to acquire Dubois because other clubs took the process more seriously. Montreal and Winnipeg are definitely among the pursuers, but there are more, some of whom haven’t received much attention. Are the Blue Jackets willing to move this quickly?

3. Hopefully, there’s eventual clarity on why Dubois wanted the change of scenery. He bought a place in Columbus last season. There’s something we’re not seeing.

Feels an awful lot like PLD had some minor doubts about staying in Columbus long term and other teams sold him on playing elsewhere during RFA discussions.

Would be a great add but hopefully Gorton holds firm on a price that makes sense. No doubt he will.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Nothing really new here, but PLD stuff from 31 Thoughts:



Feels an awful lot like PLD had some minor doubts about staying in Columbus long term and other teams sold him on playing elsewhere during RFA discussions.

Would be a great add but hopefully Gorton holds firm on a price that makes sense. No doubt he will.

Well, in reference to Friedman's quote below -

Montreal and Winnipeg are definitely among the pursuers, but there are more, some of whom haven’t received much attention

We know the Rangers are one of those teams.

 

[True Blue]

Would be a great add but hopefully Gorton holds firm on a price that makes sense. No doubt he will.

I have not seen Gorton cave and buy or sell anything at a fire sale price. He is aggressive when he believes the right time to be aggressive is, but aside from that, all of the evidence points to him being patient and more than willing to wait to get his price.

 

[True Blue]

I will say one thing. It certainly feels great to even rehash the trading of DeAngelo for prospects debate. After a long, long time of discussing and arguing anything but hockey, we finally have hockey to debate again, my Rangers fans brothers and sisters. No doubt there will be covid delays, as evidenced by other professional sports and even some players missing time for it. But I cannot wait to watch the game on Thursday. And then have to come on and remind people that Miller is only a rookie and Lafrienre has not played in real game in a long time on Friday.

 

[Avery16]

Off topic, but:

 

[Trxjw]

Well, in reference to Friedman's quote below -

Montreal and Winnipeg are definitely among the pursuers, but there are more, some of whom haven’t received much attention

We know the Rangers are one of those teams.

Yup. I'm sure pretty much every team has inquired, but we're one of a handful with the ammunition to make it happen. Even if the Jackets fans are hell-bent on a one-for-one, Johansen-Jones-redux sort of deal, we can certainly provide them with a heck of a package option.

 

[Trxjw]

I have not seen Gorton cave and buy or sell anything at a fire sale price. He is aggressive when he believes the right time to be aggressive is, but aside from that, all of the evidence points to him being patient and more than willing to wait to get his price.

Yeah I'm not worried about it. I trust Gorton & Co to do the right thing.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

The more I hear about PLD talks to more I'm wary of the price. Don't think Chytil + is gonna do it and at that point it's gotta be too rich.

 

[Mr Clutch]

That's some alpha shit for an 19 year old to come into camp burying guys. Future captain of this team, book it.

Agree. He most have some serious confidence. Imagine getting to your first nhl training camp and not having any issue wrecking guys into the corner boards lol

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

I think for Quinn, it's just as important, if not more so, that Laf and Kakko take quantum leaps than the W-L record.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Off topic, but:

i still hated the Marc Savard trade from the announcement it was made.

 

[Mr Clutch]

ADA for zegras would be awesome but zegras grew up a rangers fan. You never know, he may try and sign here when he's 26 lol

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Players have literally forced their way to the NYR for years, even when they sucked on the ice and as an organization.

If Laf, Kakko, Fox, Shesty show what we believe they are capable of this team will have a ton of options to attract and land some really good players through a variety of avenues.

That is a cocky statement and will rub some people the wrong way, but especially if those players develop to elite or near elite I stand by it.

If it’s not PLD it will be someone else. Bucket.

 

[Hire Sather]

Gotta say, it's really nice to not have a McLeod/Haley/Glass on the roster this season

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I think for Quinn, it's just as important, if not more so, that Laf and Kakko take quantum leaps than the W-L record.

Quinn is a coach. W-L is all that matters to him. Maybe JD and Gorts (and obviously the fans) care about the youngsters tearing it up but not Quinn.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Gotta say, it's really nice to not have a McLeod/Haley/Glass on the roster this season

...yet.

 

[True Blue]

Gotta say, it's really nice to not have a McLeod/Haley/Glass on the roster this season

Just wait until the JJ threads get going.