I will probably hate the article for a variety of reasons, but I do like that they use U25 talent. We've had a number of discussion on here about prospect rankings, young players, who should be included, etc., and I always advocate for U25 rankings.
Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXX
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What started this discussion that has turned into the cost of equipment, roller hockey, etc., is how to make hockey more popular, or why it isn't popular across the US. I think it was mentioned that the cost of entry was too high for many kids.
You don't really need to play the sport to become a fan of it. I played street hockey with the kids in the neighborhood--this was literally running around on the tennis courts or in the streets using tennis balls or hockey balls. I played a couple terrible years in HS but by that time I was already a diehard fan. Most of this was in Maryland, which at that time wasn't exactly a huge or traditional market.
At the same time, a billion kids in the US play soccer, and it is not exactly a huge spectator sport in the US. So there's more to creating fans that will watch your sport than getting kids playing the sport.
Hockey is great at marketing to the diehards but struggles with the casual fans. I think losing their deal with ESPN and moving to nonsense channels like VS/Outdoor Life Network/NBC Sports/whatever hurt them. You can point to the ratings for Sunday games on NBC and say "well no one watches those" but the problem is people have no real frame of reference that makes them want to watch those games. They aren't even causal fans because they aren't watching Tuesday night games on NBC Sports or NHL Network or whatever. The outdoor games do pretty well but that's because it's a novelty, people are watching who don't even care.
I'm not a marketing person so I don't really know what you do to bring in those non-fans or casual fans. Just seems like we're not doing something right. They difficulty in getting kids playing might be part of it but I don't think it's the only part, or even the biggest part.
You don't really need to play the sport to become a fan of it. I played street hockey with the kids in the neighborhood--this was literally running around on the tennis courts or in the streets using tennis balls or hockey balls. I played a couple terrible years in HS but by that time I was already a diehard fan. Most of this was in Maryland, which at that time wasn't exactly a huge or traditional market.
At the same time, a billion kids in the US play soccer, and it is not exactly a huge spectator sport in the US. So there's more to creating fans that will watch your sport than getting kids playing the sport.
Hockey is great at marketing to the diehards but struggles with the casual fans. I think losing their deal with ESPN and moving to nonsense channels like VS/Outdoor Life Network/NBC Sports/whatever hurt them. You can point to the ratings for Sunday games on NBC and say "well no one watches those" but the problem is people have no real frame of reference that makes them want to watch those games. They aren't even causal fans because they aren't watching Tuesday night games on NBC Sports or NHL Network or whatever. The outdoor games do pretty well but that's because it's a novelty, people are watching who don't even care.
I'm not a marketing person so I don't really know what you do to bring in those non-fans or casual fans. Just seems like we're not doing something right. They difficulty in getting kids playing might be part of it but I don't think it's the only part, or even the biggest part.
Fitzy
Very Stable Genius
- Jan 29, 2009
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Fitzy
Very Stable Genius
- Jan 29, 2009
- 36,368
- 24,174
I'm pro signing Brassard but only if he plays with better defensive wingers. That 3rd line would be a gong show.
Finding the right line combinations that mix veterans and kids is going to be a real challenge.
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
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Ideally, you limit your young players to 1 per line
Panarin-Strome-Kakko
Lafrenière-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Kreider-Brassard-Chytil
Lemieux-Howden-Gauthier
Rangers in 7
Registered User
hockey is a priority when they are winning, in 94 the city was buzzing and even in their most recent run of success they were a story
if the rangers are in cup contention its a completely different city, new yorkers want winners and thats all they care about
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
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That's my point. For the Rangers to make the news, they have to win the Stanley Cup. Anything less, and it's moved to a 2 paragraph blurb on page 37
I still think the problem lies in the fact that hockey is not ingrained in the American lifestyle the same way the other 3 sports are.
They didn't so much lose their deal as much as ESPN basically said they weren't guaranteeing some amount of money/years/etc. I think it was coming out of the lockout and ESPN was putting the screws to the NHL so the NHL went looking for another partner. At this point to be honest being with NBC is a pretty good spot and it seems like ESPN has fallen far from where it was back in the day. The NHL probably needs to look more into how to grow in non-traditional media, doing shit like youtube or what have you. As more media consumption moves away from the regular cable channels etc the NHL should be all in on finding ways to get the game out to "cord cutters" as well, and honestly find a way to be able to let people watch broadcast games over streaming even if it's some kind of pay per view thing.
At any rate I'm starting to feel skeptical that we'll see a season at this point with the way the NHL is acting and that's going to hurt them pretty bad
- Sep 17, 2007
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Just because the NHL isn't as popular as other sports, doesn't mean they are doing something wrong. Baseball, football and basketball are all American sports, and have always been more mainstream than hockey. They are all much more common at the local and high school levels. Kids play those sports everywhere, not just in certain states. Having teams in places like Florida, California, Arizona, Texas and Tennessee helps, but it's not a quick process.
They've done the winter classic and other outdoor games to get more exposure and give casual fans something to watch. They've expanded to non-traditional states. They've tried doing the world cup and sending players to the olympics (most of the time). They have played games in Europe. Honestly, how much more could they realistically do? The game has grown a lot since the 2005 lockout.
The NHL won't ever be as popular as football or baseball, and probably never as popular as basketball, but as long as it continues to grow, it doesn't matter.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
To the bolded, there are people in this thread conflating "playing hockey" with "playing organized hockey" when they talk about how expensive it is. There's also a lot of conflating "playing hockey" with "playing ice hockey." Playing hockey doesn't automatically mean organized or ice.
Literally all you need to play hockey is a stick and a puck or ball, and hopefully some friends. That's it. Your experience growing up, and mine, tell us that this is true. This insistence that there must be more to it has come at the detriment of expanding the sport. The NHL should be heavily invested in supplying cheap plastic sticks and rubber pucks to grade school gym departments so they can have a floor hockey module. They should be heavily invested in putting roller/street hockey rinks in public parks near basketball courts, particularly in warmer climates, where people can go any time and find a pickup game (or just a place to shoot around). Yes, there would and should be organized play on those rinks too, but that kind of public accessibility doesn't exist to the level it should. It's because of those mentalities I mentioned above that this doesn't seem to be happening. Simplify the act itself of bringing the game to more people and I think they'd make some bigger strides than they have been.
And this is without talking about the marketing you mentioned.
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BBKers
Registered User
Pool guy-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Panarin-Strome-Kakko
LaF-Chytil-Perry
Lemieux-AA/Fredric - Gauthier/Rooney
Smith - Trouba
Lindgren - Fox
Hutton - ADA
JmFJ
Howden dealt to Boston along with our 4th/5th for Bostons 3rd, Bostons 7th and Trent Fredric. I want a rough and tumble 4th line. That can be replaced by speed against suitable opponents.
C Perry signed for ~1M and one year. AA likewise. Kravtsov, Miller and Barron are all possible late season additions when ELC bonus cap implications are no longer reachable. Lundkvist arrives in 2021. Some moving roster pieces this season likely too.
Sign Hutton on D for depth. Same deal as the other 2. Bargain bin shopping makes our youth earn their spots.
Might also be some short term pieces to be dealt at the TDL to add more assets for what looks like an extremely interesting 2021 offseason.
Panarin-Strome-Kakko
LaF-Chytil-Perry
Lemieux-AA/Fredric - Gauthier/Rooney
Smith - Trouba
Lindgren - Fox
Hutton - ADA
JmFJ
Howden dealt to Boston along with our 4th/5th for Bostons 3rd, Bostons 7th and Trent Fredric. I want a rough and tumble 4th line. That can be replaced by speed against suitable opponents.
C Perry signed for ~1M and one year. AA likewise. Kravtsov, Miller and Barron are all possible late season additions when ELC bonus cap implications are no longer reachable. Lundkvist arrives in 2021. Some moving roster pieces this season likely too.
Sign Hutton on D for depth. Same deal as the other 2. Bargain bin shopping makes our youth earn their spots.
Might also be some short term pieces to be dealt at the TDL to add more assets for what looks like an extremely interesting 2021 offseason.
NYR Viper
Registered User
I have liked Frederic's game as a projectable bottom-6 power forward for a while but I'm not sure I see the benefit of trading Howden for him. He would make the team harder to play against and provide another guy who is willing to stand up for his teammates so that's a plus. He'd be similar to a guy like Lemieux although he can play center
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
yeah, i've been a hockey fan all my life and I didn't step onto the ice until I was 30 years old. (aside from a couple seasons of roller/ball hockey as a young kid)
EdJovanovski
#FreeRempe
We need to do an HFNYR hockey game meetup some day
NYRangers16
Registered User
Hockey, especially ice hockey has major barriers to entry. Skating being one. Unless you were raised in MN or Canada(as examples), you probably weren’t born living on ice skates. Lessons take money.
Then the gear is an issue. Then add in access to a rink, etc.
Compare that to baseball... a mitt, a ball, and a bat that a lot of people just have hanging around. Or football you really just need a ball to throw around. Basketball is the same. There’s a reason pro players are mostly either from cold weather states, or from relatively well off families. There are exceptions of course, but this has been the trend by and large.
Imagine how many kids who could have been great but never grew up knowing/learning how to skate, or those who did but couldn’t afford the equipment/league joining costs.
Meanwhile baseball/basketball/football/soccer have community rec leagues all over the US.
Then the gear is an issue. Then add in access to a rink, etc.
Compare that to baseball... a mitt, a ball, and a bat that a lot of people just have hanging around. Or football you really just need a ball to throw around. Basketball is the same. There’s a reason pro players are mostly either from cold weather states, or from relatively well off families. There are exceptions of course, but this has been the trend by and large.
Imagine how many kids who could have been great but never grew up knowing/learning how to skate, or those who did but couldn’t afford the equipment/league joining costs.
Meanwhile baseball/basketball/football/soccer have community rec leagues all over the US.
Will I get an infraction for clocking you...? Honest question
I’m in Stamford CT. Not sure where you guys have In mind.
pld459666
Registered User
Lol, no. Where i grew up, ice was virtually unobtainable and the only roller rink was located in what we called Crack Park.
So we made due.
I was in my late teens and playing goalie for 6-7 younger kids and no defensive help at all was fun, but even at tjat young an age, you wear out quick
Player big P
no more striptease no more flashes
I hadn't skated for like fifteen years, got on the ice, promptly caught an edge, fell on my face and broke my nose.
Two days after my insurance expired.
Rangers in 7
Registered User
ehh yes and no
they are on the back page when they are winning, and by winning i mean being a top team in the league...they dont have to raise a cup to be relevant in the city, they need a buzz about them that makes people want to go watch them, we are very close to that
Rangers in 7
Registered User
this seems like a recipe for disaster lol
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I also think the sense of scale for the NYC market, compared to many others, is pretty different.
Like most people think of Philly, Boston and Chicago as big markets. And they are. But I think many are surprised at just how much smaller than they are than NYC --- and the amount of activity that goes on daily.
As someone once said to me, 4 or 5 million people seems like a hell of a lot of people until you're surrounded by 8 or 10 million.
So in that sense, the Rangers aren't consistently on the front page of the sports section. But they are consistently followed and have a huge audience, if for no other reason than the market in which they work.
At some point it becomes the size of the fish and the body of water. Some teams are the big fish in a smaller or medium sized pond. Some teams are the fourth biggest fish in an ocean.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
It's always interesting to see which larger personalities online fall into a much smaller scale in person.
TheBloodyNine
Pure Bred Soviet Savage
The rabidness of the Rangers fan base can be abundantly seen even from this board right here. The amount of discussion that goes on here dwarfs most of the other boards. There are teams that have one Roster building thread for their whole season.
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