Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXX

[Edge]

oh I’m sure. Can say that for anyone really a concussion away from derailing your career.

He needs to continue to play the way he’s playing but if he does and I don’t see why he wouldn’t it becomes a no brainer.

I also tend to agree with you feels like if they were going to name Mika or Kreider Captain they would have.

maybe the C is going to go to the dark horse. A guy that I believe might actually be a better pick than Mika who’d be my choice. That being Jacob Trouba

Right n0w I'm getting the vibes that they might not name anyone for a while. There's a general feeling that the next era is going to be defined by Lafreniere and company.

Now, obviously the kid hasn't played an NHL game yet, there's still many miles to go, etc. etc. But I have a hunch that there's at least some mindset of not naming a captain until they see what they have in Lafereniere --- over the next few years.

Whether or not that's the path they ultimately choose remains to be seen. But it's not a concept that's merely been mentioned in passing either.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

oh I’m sure. Can say that for anyone really a concussion away from derailing your career.

He needs to continue to play the way he’s playing but if he does and I don’t see why he wouldn’t it becomes a no brainer.

I also tend to agree with you feels like if they were going to name Mika or Kreider Captain they would have.

maybe the C is going to go to the dark horse. A guy that I believe might actually be a better pick than Mika who’d be my choice. That being Jacob Trouba

I have a hard time believing it’ll be anyone that isn’t Lafreniere in another year or two

 

[Edge]

I see a lot of salary speculation based on the old world order. It's unlikely there will be any $10MM players in the near future. Some of the guys who got big contracts (I'm looking at you Eichel, Marner among others) would be looking at less money and/or term now. All of those contracts were given out with the expectation that the cap was going to continue to grow $3-4MM each year. Who had Taylor Hall 1/$8MM in January?

We just have to rethink those numbers. The economics have changed.

My gut reaction is maybe. In 2020, definitely. By 2022, I honestly don't know.

I think the crunch you're going to see could look an awful lot like what happened to the restaurant industry a few years back --- it's the mid-range tier of options that feel the crunch.

I supect we might see scenarios where the teams are still willing to invest in their top tier talent, a guy who is a centerpiece player for them. I think it's the tier or two below those guys who are going to feel some market contraction --- recent examples being guys like Kreider, or Trouba, or Hayes, or McD, etc.

I think if you're a player in that neighborhood, you might have reason to be concerned.

But if Zibanejad is hovering in that 90-100 point range for another two seasons, I think he's going to get paid.

 

[SA16]

I see a lot of salary speculation based on the old world order. It's unlikely there will be any $10MM players in the near future. Some of the guys who got big contracts (I'm looking at you Eichel, Marner among others) would be looking at less money and/or term now. All of those contracts were given out with the expectation that the cap was going to continue to grow $3-4MM each year. Who had Taylor Hall 1/$8MM in January?

We just have to rethink those numbers. The economics have changed.

Yea we should be expecting lower number given the flat cap. It's only holding the number at the all time high instead setting a new high.

Pietrangelo just got 8.8M.

 

[kovazub94]

I don’t think you trade away star 29 year old top 10 centers unless they don’t want to play for you. You sign them and you live with the the back end of the contract. It’s extremely difficult to find top centers. They’ll trade/buyout whatever it takes a lot of other guys before they do that.

I’d be shocked if Mika isn’t extended if he continues to play the way he’s been playing.

God forbid but what you’d say if Zibanejad gets another concussion this upcoming season that causes him to miss a dozen or more games? The point is it’s really not only about the backend of the next contract.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

God forbid but what you’d say if Zibanejad gets another concussion this upcoming season that causes him to miss a dozen or more games? The point is it’s really not only about the backend of the next contract.

Also if you're conceding that the backend of that contract will be an anchor, that backend will be during Lafreniere and Kakko's primes

 

[Leetch3]

I see a lot of salary speculation based on the old world order. It's unlikely there will be any $10MM players in the near future. Some of the guys who got big contracts (I'm looking at you Eichel, Marner among others) would be looking at less money and/or term now. All of those contracts were given out with the expectation that the cap was going to continue to grow $3-4MM each year. Who had Taylor Hall 1/$8MM in January?

We just have to rethink those numbers. The economics have changed.

is that changed economics or taylor hall being a loser that makes you 10 times more likely to pick 1st overall than make the playoffs?

and hopefully in 2 years we are back to normal and looking towards a normal cap moving forward

 

[egelband]

I think those 2 conversations are tied together...I don't think we can give Mika a huge extension and then also add another $10 mil center. we'll be paying too much $$ to wingers.

If there is concern/hesitation of giving Mika a 7-8 year extension at 29 than Eichel and Barkov potentially become alternate 1C options that have more prime years left.

but I can't see us affording a 1-2 punch unless its a trade while mika is still on his current contract.

Totally agree. My gut tells me they won’t be able to afford more than one more big deal. Signing one center longterm, be that Ziba or someone currently not in the organization, can work I assume. But that’s it. And that may preclude another high cost defenseman since soon enough Kakko and even Lafreniere may need big money. I know they’re restricted for years but we know that if they play up to expectations they’ll start making big money pretty soon. Not that they couldn’t sign big short term deals but the stars will want longer term.
Long story short, unless I hear otherwise I think we’re about maxed out for star deals. Players can be swapped but it’s like: Panarin, Trouba, Mika (or replacement), Kreider, and raises for the young guys. Buchnevich, Strome probably gone in a year. ADA, we shall see. But i don’t see them adding any big deals. The variable, of course, is how the ELC and inexpensive vets play.

 

[egelband]

On one hand, if you can get Eichel or Barkov using Zibanejad it’s kind of hard to argue; Brassard/Mika trade on steroids.

On the other hand, if you trade Zibanejad for another Center, the Rangers still don’t have a 2C. It’s a weird move.

Would rather try to get Barkov in FA and trade Zibanejad for someone with more term.

for this reason I reckon the FO is (or should be) scoring the league looking for good center prospects. They’ll be happy to overpay fo a guy who’s good and fits the salary structure for a while.

 

[egelband]

I don’t think you trade away star 29 year old top 10 centers unless they don’t want to play for you. You sign them and you live with the the back end of the contract. It’s extremely difficult to find top centers. They’ll trade/buyout whatever it takes a lot of other guys before they do that.

I’d be shocked if Mika isn’t extended if he continues to play the way he’s been playing.

I’d be shocked too. Especially if he gets through this upcoming season injury-free. But this front office seems willing to make tough choices. So I wouldn’t dismiss the possibility completely, as I would were Sather still running things.

 

[egelband]

IMO Barkov and Mika are both getting over 10 mil per on their extension

Sure. I think it doesn’t realllllllly matter though. An $8.5m or $10m deal is still a huge deal. The difference is keeping or losing a Buchnevich level salary. I think of them all the same. Big deals or cheapies. The in-betweens are either kept or dealt based on the them.

 

[egelband]

My gut reaction is maybe. In 2020, definitely. By 2022, I honestly don't know.

I think the crunch you're going to see could look an awful lot like what happened to the restaurant industry a few years back --- it's the mid-range tier of options that feel the crunch.

I supect we might see scenarios where the teams are still willing to invest in their top tier talent, a guy who is a centerpiece player for them. I think it's the tier or two below those guys who are going to feel some market contraction --- recent examples being guys like Kreider, or Trouba, or Hayes, or McD, etc.

I think if you're a player in that neighborhood, you might have reason to be concerned.

But if Zibanejad is hovering in that 90-100 point range for another two seasons, I think he's going to get paid.

Yep. If Mika or whomever gets $10m, A mid-range guy like Buchnevich (or whomever) gets moved out to make room. If Mika takes $8m maybe there’s room for an extra mid-level guy on RFA type money.

 

[bobbop]

is that changed economics or taylor hall being a loser that makes you 10 times more likely to pick 1st overall than make the playoffs?

and hopefully in 2 years we are back to normal and looking towards a normal cap moving forward

Unfortunately, it’s going to be more than two years

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Right n0w I'm getting the vibes that they might not name anyone for a while. There's a general feeling that the next era is going to be defined by Lafreniere and company.

Now, obviously the kid hasn't played an NHL game yet, there's still many miles to go, etc. etc. But I have a hunch that there's at least some mindset of not naming a captain until they see what they have in Lafereniere --- over the next few years.

Whether or not that's the path they ultimately choose remains to be seen. But it's not a concept that's merely been mentioned in passing either.

They cannot go this long without naming a captain. It will 3 years once the season starts. Just give it to Kreider.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

They cannot go this long without naming a captain. It will 3 years once the season starts. Just give it to Kreider.

Why can't they?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

They cannot go this long without naming a captain. It will 3 years once the season starts. Just give it to Kreider.

Vegas has never had a captain. They are entering their 4th season in the league and have been quite successful without one. Captaincy is overrated. Well, having a player wear that letter is overrated. Leadership doesn't come with the letter. It's already there

 

[SA16]

Hockey is the only sport that anyone cares who the captain is in football they change every week, Baseball almost nobody has one, it doesn’t matter.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Captaincy matters if you have a good one...its irrelevant otherwise, so maybe the team feels they don't have that guy right now. With the way the 'A' has been passed around its almost like they are trying to get someone to step up and take the C.

 

[Leetch3]

Captaincy matters if you have a good one...its irrelevant otherwise, so maybe the team feels they don't have that guy right now. With the way the 'A' has been passed around its almost like they are trying to get someone to step up and take the C.

stitching a letter on a jersey has nothing to do with it though besides selling new jerseys...if someone is a good leader they are a leader with or without the letter

 

[Profet]

Lundqvist was always seen by management as the leader. With him gone, and Kreider accepting a long term deal, my bet is on Kreider.

He has shown massive amounts of leadership with the youngsters and even with the other star players.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Captaincy matters if you have a good one...its irrelevant otherwise, so maybe the team feels they don't have that guy right now. With the way the 'A' has been passed around its almost like they are trying to get someone to step up and take the C.

A player has never become a better leader or player by having a letter stitched onto his jersey.

 

[RGY]

Completely disagree with everyone who says the captaincy doesn’t matter. When you designate 3 or 4 players with an “A” it becomes a too many cooks in the kitchen situation. If you don’t have some worthy then thats one thing, but you should have the one guy that separates himself from the group who the teams leans on to lead them with all the ups and downs of a long season, all the growing pains (especially with a young team), someone who has been there before and knows how to respond during adversity. How many of the last Stanley Cup teams didn’t have a Captain? The Captaincy still has value. And sometimes it can be a negative affect as I think it was the minute McDongah had the C put on his jersey. Always thought it should have been Stepan. Same with Leetch, never thought he should have been given the C especially following Messier. He didnt have the personality for it and I think it affected him as well. So yes if you do not have the right option for it then you don’t force it on someone.

Of the 4 major sports Hockey and Football are the most team oriented sports. Football has its captains too on Offense/Defense/Special teams, despite what someone else said. They only change captains every week when the team is either hot garbage or young or someone is on IR. They don’t change them often as suggested. Baseball is an individual sport. It is not really team oriented at all. The pace is lethargic too. There is a lot of individual strategy. And Basketball, over time, became an extremely individual sport. Yes the team aspect pierces through here and there, but the play is also lethargic. Up and down the court the ball is brought then it is passed around a little until one guy makes a move to open up daylight for a Jump shot or those physically gifted mammoths drive the hoop and will their way to a dunk. Its a lot of 1-on-1 play imo. So not really a Captain needed there either.


I think Kreider should be the Captain. I think he should be the next face of the team to represent the organization. There is no need to wait a couple years for Laf nor do we have to bring any added pressure to him. Let Kreider handle that side of the game.

 

[Fitzy]

I have a hard time believing it’ll be anyone that isn’t Lafreniere in another year or two

That would make him the first NYR Quebecois captain since Camile Henry if I'm not mistaken.

 

[bobbop]

A player has never become a better leader or player by having a letter stitched onto his jersey.

Sometimes the opposite happens

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Vegas has never had a captain. They are entering their 4th season in the league and have been quite successful without one. Captaincy is overrated. Well, having a player wear that letter is overrated. Leadership doesn't come with the letter. It's already there

Kreider is the leader in the NYR locker room, he's been a Ranger for 8 years already and will be here for 7 more. There's no reason not to make him the Captain.