Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXX

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Just because Florida took a gamble giving the term and dollars up front with the hope that the contract would look better for them down the road, doesn’t mean every team and/or prospect will be handled that way.

If Chytil, Igor, Lindgren are all getting long term deals then I think management is approaching them the right way. Lindgren isn’t getting that. Chytil, unless he absolutely has a monster year, is not getting that. Yeah, its likely they try to lock Igor up longterm, but that is worth it.

Can’t look at everything in a vacuum. Buchnevich, Strome, and/or DeAngelo could be moved after this season. Especially if it came down to improving the 2C position.

It's not just Ekblad. Look at players drafted 1st and 2nd overall and what they were given after their ELC expired. These aren't players who will sign a bridge deal for 2.5m

 

[JimmyG89]

With the news that it is more and more likely Kravtsov is staying in the KHL, there are an opening on the roster, especially on the 4th line. Buch, Kakko, and Gauthier should make up the top 3 RW, but they could do what people are asking and move someone from LW to RW. Kreider is the guy I think would move over. I think something like this is very likely:

Panarin-Strome-Buchnevich
Lafreniere-Zibanejad-Kreider
XXXX-Chytil-Kakko
Lemieux-Howden-Gauthier

Howden or Lemieux could move to the 3LW spot, opening up the 4th line for others. Barron is likely to be one of those guys.

EDIT: added Kakko in.

 

[Avery16]

With the news that it is more and more likely Kravtsov is staying in the KHL, there are an opening on the roster, especially on the 4th line. Buch, Kakko, and Gauthier should make up the top 3 RW, but they could do what people are asking and move someone from LW to RW. Kreider is the guy I think would move over. I think something like this is very likely:

Panarin-Strome-Buchnevich
Lafreniere-Zibanejad-Kreider
XXXX-Chytil-Gauthier
Lemieux-Howden-XXXX

Howden or Lemieux could move to the 3LW spot, opening up the 4th line for others. Barron is likely to be one of those guys. Think Rooney slots into the 4RW spot for PK purposes. Same for Blackwell.

I think you left off Kakko, but otherwise I agree the hole is 3LW.

 

[Avery16]

https://nypost.com/2020/11/11/rangers-plan-for-vitali-kravtsov-could-work-out-for-everyone

The Post has confirmed that while the Blueshirts have the contractual right to recall Kravtsov at any time, there is an understanding that the winger will complete the season in Russia before he’d be summoned to North America.

Larry's roster musings here are just…wacky

 

[JimmyG89]

I think you left off Kakko, but otherwise I agree the hole is 3LW.

Yes, I typed him in and removed, then left out. Probably slots in for Gauthier's spot and moves him down to 4RW.

 

[Avery16]

Yes, I typed him in and removed, then left out. Probably slots in for Gauthier's spot and moves him down to 4RW.

Which would be more appropriate for Gauthier, IMO

 

[NYR425]

I was just reading Larry Brooks article about stacking lines and was wondering what would you guys think of these 3 lines? Moving Kreider and Buchnevich to Chytil's line could really help him take the next step. Meanwhile, Lafreniere gets an elite shooter/sniper in Zibanejad & Zibanejad gets the elite playmaker in Lafreniere. Gauthier gives them size and speed on the other wing.

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Gauthier

Panarin - Strome - Kakko

Kreider - Chytil - Buchnevich

Lemieux - Howden - Rooney

Blackwell

Lindgren - Fox

(Smith/Hajek) - Trouba

(Johnson/Biletto ) - DeAngelo


Shestorkin - Georgiev


Think it would give us 3 very strong lines for the time being. Chances are by the draft some combination of Strome, Buchnevich and/or DeAngelo will be moved for a 2nd line Center.
The following season Kravtsov replaces Buchnevich, Lundqvist/ Schneider are here to replace DeAngelo and Miller/ Robertson are here to replace Smith/Hajek and Biletto/Johnson.
Flame away

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Im hopeful that by the mid point of the year that Miller will be a part of our top 4, possibly paired with Trouba or Fox. Imo if he proves ready our best scenario for the season is this as i didn't mind the Smith Trouba pairing after the Skjei trade. I like Lindgren Fox but I think Deangelo needs to have someone reliable with him, i also think that could be a nasty pair to play against.

Smith Trouba
Miller Fox
Lindgren Deangelo

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I was just reading Larry Brooks article about stacking lines and was wondering what would you guys think of these 3 lines? Moving Kreider and Buchnevich to Chytil's line could really help him take the next step. Meanwhile, Lafreniere gets an elite shooter/sniper in Zibanejad & Zibanejad gets the elite playmaker in Lafreniere. Gauthier gives them size and speed on the other wing.

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Gauthier

Panarin - Strome - Kakko

Kreider - Chytil - Buchnevich

Lemieux - Howden - Rooney

Blackwell

Lindgren - Fox

(Smith/Hajek) - Trouba

(Johnson/Biletto ) - DeAngelo


Shestorkin - Georgiev


Think it would give us 3 very strong lines for the time being. Chances are by the draft some combination of Strome, Buchnevich and/or DeAngelo will be moved for a 2nd line Center.
The following season Kravtsov replaces Buchnevich, Lundqvist/ Schneider are here to replace DeAngelo and Miller/ Robertson are here to replace Smith/Hajek and Biletto/Johnson.
Flame away

Gauthier doesnt see top 6 mins this year unless we have some injuries imo. He seems to have a lot in what you'd want in a hockey player but i see him more of a Pouliot than a Kreider and that might even be generous as Pouliot had more grit in him.

 

[Avery16]

If Kravstov isnt on the roster opening night, is that hole necessarily filled by one of the plugs we signed, or does Barron or Gettinger get a real shot at bottom-six minutes?

 

[NYR Viper]

If Kravstov isnt on the roster opening night, is that hole necessarily filled by one of the plugs we signed, or does Baron or Gettinger get a real shot at bottom-six minutes?

Hopefully Gettinger or Barron

 

[Edge]

LOL...it was a bad trade IMO and that likely won't change anytime soon unless one of those guys we got in return becomes a guy that plays 20 minutes a night . Say what you want . TB and McDonagh have a Cup ring now...we got scraps . Front line Dmen should fetch more than that .... EDIT...I respect your opinion Edge...I just don't agree with it . Time will tell at some stage but right now....they have a Cup to show for it and likely one more next year and I doubt they will mind paying McD's salary with two Cups to show for the deal....

But he's not a front line D-man. At this point he's a 31 year old second pair defenseman who struggles to stay healthy, especially coming into the playoffs. And he was already phasing out of his duty as a front line d-man when we traded him, which is one of the main reasons we didn't have teams tripping over themselves with mega offers.

I think the whole, "they have a cup to show for it" can be a little misleading and void of some important context --- namely McD's role and some of the benefit he received by having a huge break in the season that wouldn't normally be there.

Right now, the Rangers have a 22 year old player with 140 games under his belt, a B-level prospect and an A-level prospect to show from the assets they received in that deal. Outside of being handing ready to play A-level prospects, or emerging young talent, that's pretty much what you're going rate is going to be for what McD was circa 2018.

I honestly don't think the challenge was the value, I think the challenge was the expectations of some fans and the belief that there was some better deal out there just waiting to be head. Truth is there really wasn't.

And that's part of the problem - we don't talk about a Toronto deal that included Jeremy Bracco and Andrew Nielsen and what would've been the 29th pick in the 2018 draft.

Nor do we do talk about Boston offering Frederic and Lindgren as part of their offer for McD, and how that would've meant moving Nash elsewhere for a less attractive return.

At the end of the day, some of the alternatives are significantly less attractive than people realize. We don't talk about them because they never came pass, but there's very few missed trade opportunities the last two seasons. Whether the deal works out remains to be seen, but we didn't pick the mystery prize over the brand new car either.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

But he's not a front line D-man. At this point he's a 31 year old second pair defenseman who struggles to stay healthy, especially coming into the playoffs. And he was already phasing out of his duty as a front line d-man when we traded him, which is one of the main reasons we didn't have teams tripping over themselves with mega offers.

I think the whole, "they have a cup to show for it" can be a little misleading and void of some important context --- namely McD's role and some of the benefit he received by having a huge break in the season that wouldn't normally be there.

Right now, the Rangers have a 22 year old player with 140 games under his belt, a B-level prospect and an A-level prospect to show from the assets they received in that deal. Outside of being handing ready to play A-level prospects, or emerging young talent, that's pretty much what you're going rate is going to be for what McD was circa 2018.

I honestly don't think the challenge was the value, I think the challenge was the expectations of some fans and the belief that there was some better deal out there just waiting to be head. Truth is there really wasn't.

And that's part of the problem, we don't talk about a Toronto deal that includes Jeremy Bracco and Andrew Nielsen and what would've been the 29th pick in the 2018 draft. Nor do we do talk about Boston offering Frederic and Lindgren as part of their offer for McD, but how that wouldn't meant moving Nash elsewhere for a less attractive return elsewhere.

At the end of the day, some the alternatives are significantly less attractive than people realize. We don't talk about them because they never came pass, but there's very few missed trade opportunities the last two seasons. Whether the deals work out remains to be seen, but we didn't pick the mystery prize over the brand new car either.

I agree with most everything you are saying and im fine with the deal but id have to imagine in hindsight we probably could have traded those players individually and gotten more somewhere else. I like Lundkvist and the cap space we got out from under but could we have gotten a 1st for mcdonagh and then traded Miller in another deal? Probably so. Its hindsight, and to be fair both Hajek and Howden still have time to become decent players. If there's a problem with this trade it was the value put on Hajek.

 

[charliemurphy]

I was just reading Larry Brooks article about stacking lines and was wondering what would you guys think of these 3 lines? Moving Kreider and Buchnevich to Chytil's line could really help him take the next step. Meanwhile, Lafreniere gets an elite shooter/sniper in Zibanejad & Zibanejad gets the elite playmaker in Lafreniere. Gauthier gives them size and speed on the other wing.

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Gauthier

Panarin - Strome - Kakko

Kreider - Chytil - Buchnevich

Lemieux - Howden - Rooney

Blackwell

Lindgren - Fox

(Smith/Hajek) - Trouba

(Johnson/Biletto ) - DeAngelo


Shestorkin - Georgiev


Think it would give us 3 very strong lines for the time being. Chances are by the draft some combination of Strome, Buchnevich and/or DeAngelo will be moved for a 2nd line Center.
The following season Kravtsov replaces Buchnevich, Lundqvist/ Schneider are here to replace DeAngelo and Miller/ Robertson are here to replace Smith/Hajek and Biletto/Johnson.
Flame away

Brooks' piece aside, I think Quinn goes with the following lines out of camp...

Kreider-Zib-Buch
Panarn-Strome-Kakko
Laf-Chytil-Gauthier
Lemieux-Howden-PDG/Rooney/Blackwell

Lindgren-Fox
Smith-Trouba
Johnson-TDA

Shesty/Georgiev

...not the lines we see by the end of the season.
Anticipating Miller, Barron, Kravstov coming in.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Strome, TDA and Buch going out along with some shuffling around depending on the return.

 

[Edge]

I agree with most everything you are saying and im fine with the deal but id have to imagine in hindsight we probably could have traded those players individually and gotten more somewhere else. I like Lundkvist and the cap space we got out from under but could we have gotten a 1st for mcdonagh and then traded Miller in another deal? Probably so. Its hindsight, and to be fair both Hajek and Howden still have time to become decent players. If there's a problem with this trade it was the value put on Hajek.

That's hard to say. You probably could've traded McD for a first, and maybe a pair of B-level prospects, or in some cases a B level prospect and a C level prospect. That seemed to be what teams were offering.

So your Tampa deal probably looks like something along the lines of their first, Howden or Hajek (but not both), and maybe Matthew Spencer.

You then probably could've flippsed Miller for first and a mid-round pick.

So basically you're looking at Two late firsts, a third, Howden and Spencer (along with maybe a modest add)

vs.

A first, a second (that had a chance to become a first), Howden, Hajek and Namestnikov.

Could you argue for the former? Sure, but I don't think we're talking about a world of difference --- and that's with taking into account the benefit of hindsight.

I think the crappy part was Namestnikov not finding his niche on this team as a jack of all trades type.

I also think one of the more underrated aspects of the deal was Tampa winning in 2020 and not 2019. Though, having said that, I can tell you that the extra first in 2019 likely would not have been used on the prospect most fans suspect.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Them not messing with Kravstov until the KHL season is over is the right move

I also think one of the more underrated aspects of the deal was Tampa winning in 2020 and not 2019. Though, having said that, I can tell you that the extra first in 2019 likely would not have been used on the prospect most fans suspect.

I was going to make a joke about them taking Lindbolm in the 1st as opposed to the 2nd, but he was 2018

 

[BKGooner]

Some thinking out loud...

I think the Rangers clearly want to make a talent for talent trade that brings back a potential second line center. Most likely that’s a young talent for young talent trade. Think Drouin for Sergachev.

I’m starting to think that Lundkvist may be the bait that brings that player to New York.

My belief is still Tony D. goes for a comparable center and then some combination of Buch, Strome futures go to get a LD. Besides matching talent, I think the Rangers are going to look to match up dollars. They need to save the upcoming glut of cash to play guys coming off ELCs.

 

[Thirty One]

This is getting on the silly end of things. We're talking about trading for a 2C not Jack Eichel.
If the Rangers can't afford a 2C then they're probably screwed

I'm talking about Eichel!

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

https://nypost.com/2020/11/11/rangers-plan-for-vitali-kravtsov-could-work-out-for-everyone


"Whither Brett Howden, the natural center who moved to the wing for last season’s final 36 games before moving back to the middle for all three games of the qualifying round, where he was one of the team’s most imposing players?"

Uh, what?

 

[Edge]

My belief is still Tony D. goes for a comparable center and then some combination of Buch, Strome futures go to get a LD. Besides matching talent, I think the Rangers are going to look to match up dollars. They need to save the upcoming glut of cash to play guys coming off ELCs.

I'd say your two most likely candidates are ADA and Lundkvist --- albeit for different reasons.

ADA is an NHL-level player, but one will who require a corresponding salary. So any deal there is more likely going to be for someone in a similar are/salary range.

Lundkvist doesn't carry that same salary, but he also doesn't carry the NHL level accomplishments either. Any deal for him would likely be focused on a similarly aged player, or would require a follow-up move if he's traded for someone with a decent salary. Because otherwise you're looking at having to pay for a youngish/prime second line center AND whatever you pay to ADA.

To that last point, that's one reason I tend to think the business aspect of things is likely to mean that ADA is the sacrafice at some point. Looking at how the roster is likely to shape, you're going to instances where the Rangers will be looking to backfill with cheaper contracts.

 

[Hockey Gamer]

we traded McDonagh when he only had 2 playoffs and a regular season left on his contract. If Tampa won the cup in that window then I could go along with the notion that Tampa got what they wanted from the trade. They didn't though. They signed him to a deal after his contract expired but at that point, it no longer involved us. It was solely their business with McDonagh and no longer involved the trade. I also think Tampa was going to win the cup with or without him. He clearly didn't put them over the top for the 2 playoff seasons that we traded away.

I think people either forget or just choose to neglect the time relevance with a contract status. We traded a year and half's worth of McDonagh. Tampa didn't win in that window. That was really all our business with them.

 

[bobbop]

I'd say your two most likely candidates are ADA and Lundkvist --- albeit for different reasons.

ADA is an NHL-level player, but one will who require a corresponding salary. So any deal there is more likely going to be for someone in a similar are/salary range.

Lundkvist doesn't carry that same salary, but he also doesn't carry the NHL level accomplishments either. Any deal for him would likely be focused on a similarly aged player, or would require a follow-up move if he's traded for someone with a decent salary. Because otherwise you're looking at having to pay for a youngish/prime second line center AND whatever you pay to ADA.

To that last point, that's one reason I tend to think the business aspect of things is likely to mean that ADA is the sacrafice at some point. Looking at how the roster is likely to shape, you're going to instances where the Rangers will be looking to backfill with cheaper contracts.

A lot of this depends on how fast Schneider progresses. It's entirely possible that in time, both of these things could happen.

 

[UnSandvich]

https://nypost.com/2020/11/11/rangers-plan-for-vitali-kravtsov-could-work-out-for-everyone


"Whither Brett Howden, the natural center who moved to the wing for last season’s final 36 games before moving back to the middle for all three games of the qualifying round, where he was one of the team’s most imposing players?"

Uh, what?

The only thing he imposed himself upon was our chances of winning a game that series.

 

[Edge]

A lot of this depends on how fast Schneider progresses. It's entirely possible that in time, both of these things could happen.

This is also very true. It's not impossible to think that even if everyone develops as hoped, two of ADA, Lundkvist and Schneider could be used as assets for other needs.

 

[Fitzy]

It's not just Ekblad. Look at players drafted 1st and 2nd overall and what they were given after their ELC expired. These aren't players who will sign a bridge deal for 2.5m

IDK if we get lucky we can get the Nolan Patrick deal