Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXVIII

[True Blue]

I don't know, it's a tough decision. I mean who would you want to play with in a contract year? Panarin, Kreider, Lafreniere, Kakko, and Buchnevich. Or Jeff Skinner and Kyle Okposo....

Tough call.

I hear the trees are actually quote lovely in Buffalo.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

#AndTheHitsJustKeepOnComing

#Wenevergetagoodclown

 

[True Blue]

#Wenevergetagoodclown

#OhThereIsNoShortage

 

[OriginalLimbo]

Pronman's Post-Draft Org rankings

The criteria for players considered in this ranking changed this year. All players in an organization who were 22 years old or younger as of Sept. 15, 2020, regardless of how many NHL games they’ve played, along with the rest of the players in the pipeline, were included. Not included are: Skaters older than 22 as of Sept. 15, 2020, who have played 25 NHL games in a season or 50 career games; goalies with 10 games in a season or 25 in a career; and any player age 26 or older as of Sept. 15, 2020.

1. New York Rangers

Pre-draft org ranking: No. 1
2020 draft grade: A+
I had the Rangers as the No. 1 organization pre-draft, and with a No. 1 pick, they added the most talent of any team in the draft. Safe to say, this one shouldn’t shock anyone. This is an organization that is deep in young talent, both in terms of players who can play high in the lineup and provide depth. This is a team that is now positioned to potentially win in the future.
1. Alexis Lafreniere, LW
2. Kaapo Kakko, RW
3. Adam Fox, D
4. Filip Chytil, C
5. Nils Lundkvist, D
6. Vitaly Kravtsov, RW
7. Brett Howden, C
8. Julien Gauthier, RW
9. Braden Schneider, D
10. K’Ande Miller, D
11. Matthew Robertson, D
12. Morgan Barron, C
13. Will Cuylle, LW
14. Zac Jones, D
15. Ryan Lindgren, D
16. Dylan Garand, G

2. NJ
3. Ottawa
4. Toronto
5 LA Kings

Yeesh. Not good if Howden and Gauthier are ahead of Schneider/Miller/Robertson. Because, IMO, the former are just barely NHLers.

 

[BKGooner]

Buchnevich is a non, winning player. I'll jump for joy when JD and Gorton finally get rid of this clown.

I used to be of a similar opinion, but I really think he has turned a corner. I still think he eventually gets moved for LD help (and DeAngelo gets moved for C help) but going into next season, I am happy he is a Ranger. Would not have said that a year ago.

 

[jay from jersey]

Athanasiuou is Kreider-lite, I presume?

A facilitator if I ever saw one

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Hypothetical time.

Would you trade Zibs for Eichel, next year? or do we extend a 29 year old Zibanejad?

Zibs + our prospect pool, I feel like we could land any player we want

If you trade Zibanejad for Eichel, it kind of defeats the purpose of getting Eichel. You want to pair Eichel with Zibanejad, not deal one for the other.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Buchnevich is a non, winning player. I'll jump for joy when JD and Gorton finally get rid of this clown.

#HotTakeAlert

 

[UnSandvich]

Yeesh. Not good if Howden and Gauthier are ahead of Schneider/Miller/Robertson. Because, IMO, the former are just barely NHLers.

Pronman has been weirdly high on Howden for a long time. I don't see what he's seeing but hey, maybe he'll be right.

 

[Greg02]

If you trade Zibanejad for Eichel, it kind of defeats the purpose of getting Eichel. You want to pair Eichel with Zibanejad, not deal one for the other.

It makes sense from a risk mitigation perspective.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Pronman has been weirdly high on Howden for a long time. I don't see what he's seeing but hey, maybe he'll be right.

Honestly with how high Pronman seems to be on Howden in his writing I legitimately feel like the only explanation is he hasn't watched him at all at the NHL level.

Howden was a good prospect who had good junior numbers so Pronman had his read on him then. Then sees him progress a bit and then he's in the NHL as a center and has decent TOI and puts up some points so Corey probably just assumes he's a young player growing, which he is, but without watching him you lose the context of how he's actually playing. He has a handful of games where he looks great and has a good motor and forechecks well and cycles well. But the vast majority of his career has been basically like a baby deer lost on the ice with no direction, trying really hard but not doing much of anything at all. And worst of all, he's made very little progress at the NHL level, if anything I'd argue last season saw regression.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

"Experts" opinions about Howden vary because some see him as a guy who made the jump to the NHL at 20 and has put up close to 20 points each season. Yet the people who watch him consistently see how bad he is

I think the Rangers thoughts on him are probably somewhere in the middle, but I can understand if someone like Pronman just looks at his stats relative to age and say "yeah he's a very promising under 25 guy"

 

[NYR Viper]

Howden's issue has a lot to do with strength, and that's something that will naturally take care of itself over time. He played a very mature, 2-way game in juniors and he was okay playing at his size there. It's a game that translates well to a 2-way 3C in the NHL. The issue being that his physical strength has needed time to develop. If he had played a full season in the AHL and put up 50 points in 70 games which is reasonable, followed by his first season in the NHL at age 21-22 putting up ~20 points people would be higher on him. He's still so young and he actually projects to fill a glaring hole in the organization, 2-way 3C.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Pronman's Post-Draft Org rankings

The criteria for players considered in this ranking changed this year. All players in an organization who were 22 years old or younger as of Sept. 15, 2020, regardless of how many NHL games they’ve played, along with the rest of the players in the pipeline, were included. Not included are: Skaters older than 22 as of Sept. 15, 2020, who have played 25 NHL games in a season or 50 career games; goalies with 10 games in a season or 25 in a career; and any player age 26 or older as of Sept. 15, 2020.

1. New York Rangers

Pre-draft org ranking: No. 1
2020 draft grade: A+
I had the Rangers as the No. 1 organization pre-draft, and with a No. 1 pick, they added the most talent of any team in the draft. Safe to say, this one shouldn’t shock anyone. This is an organization that is deep in young talent, both in terms of players who can play high in the lineup and provide depth. This is a team that is now positioned to potentially win in the future.
1. Alexis Lafreniere, LW
2. Kaapo Kakko, RW
3. Adam Fox, D
4. Filip Chytil, C
5. Nils Lundkvist, D
6. Vitaly Kravtsov, RW
7. Brett Howden, C
8. Julien Gauthier, RW
9. Braden Schneider, D
10. K’Ande Miller, D
11. Matthew Robertson, D
12. Morgan Barron, C
13. Will Cuylle, LW
14. Zac Jones, D
15. Ryan Lindgren, D
16. Dylan Garand, G

2. NJ
3. Ottawa
4. Toronto
5 LA Kings

But what does Byron Bader think?

 

[haohmaru]

But what does Byron Bader think?

His friends just call him “Bad”

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

Pronman's Post-Draft Org rankings

The criteria for players considered in this ranking changed this year. All players in an organization who were 22 years old or younger as of Sept. 15, 2020, regardless of how many NHL games they’ve played, along with the rest of the players in the pipeline, were included. Not included are: Skaters older than 22 as of Sept. 15, 2020, who have played 25 NHL games in a season or 50 career games; goalies with 10 games in a season or 25 in a career; and any player age 26 or older as of Sept. 15, 2020.

1. New York Rangers

Pre-draft org ranking: No. 1
2020 draft grade: A+
I had the Rangers as the No. 1 organization pre-draft, and with a No. 1 pick, they added the most talent of any team in the draft. Safe to say, this one shouldn’t shock anyone. This is an organization that is deep in young talent, both in terms of players who can play high in the lineup and provide depth. This is a team that is now positioned to potentially win in the future.
1. Alexis Lafreniere, LW
2. Kaapo Kakko, RW
3. Adam Fox, D
4. Filip Chytil, C
5. Nils Lundkvist, D
6. Vitaly Kravtsov, RW
7. Brett Howden, C
8. Julien Gauthier, RW
9. Braden Schneider, D
10. K’Ande Miller, D
11. Matthew Robertson, D
12. Morgan Barron, C
13. Will Cuylle, LW
14. Zac Jones, D
15. Ryan Lindgren, D
16. Dylan Garand, G

2. NJ
3. Ottawa
4. Toronto
5 LA Kings

How is Lindgren #15?!

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

It makes sense from a risk mitigation perspective.

Say more....

 

[True Blue]

How is Lindgren #15?!

That is a bit puzzling. Considering what he did last year, that is criminally low. If you were to tell a franchise that their 15th best prospect just stepped in and played a second pair defenseman and held his own, would not one wonder just how good the other prospects are?

Lingren may well have quietly a much longer career than some above him.

 

[RangersFan1994]

That is a bit puzzling. Considering what he did last year, that is criminally low. If you were to tell a franchise that their 15th best prospect just stepped in and played a second pair defenseman and held his own, would not one wonder just how good the other prospects are?

Lingren may well have quietly a much longer career than some above him.

I hope he is a future captain here down the road. he has leadership abilities. he should def get an A within a few years in my opinion.

 

[SA16]

Howden's issue has a lot to do with strength, and that's something that will naturally take care of itself over time. He played a very mature, 2-way game in juniors and he was okay playing at his size there. It's a game that translates well to a 2-way 3C in the NHL. The issue being that his physical strength has needed time to develop. If he had played a full season in the AHL and put up 50 points in 70 games which is reasonable, followed by his first season in the NHL at age 21-22 putting up ~20 points people would be higher on him. He's still so young and he actually projects to fill a glaring hole in the organization, 2-way 3C.

There's a big difference between putting up 20 points and playing well in that role and putting up 20 points while also being terrible defensively. Howden is nothing like a Blair Betts defensively. There's basically not a single thing he's done well in the NHL. He doesn't score. He doesn't shoot. He's not a big playmaker for a non-shooter. The team doesn't shoot with him on the ice. The team gets outshot like crazy. He doesn't defend well. He doesn't have a good penalty differential. He doesn't show signs of being a skilled player who can make plays with the puck. He's not a good penalty killer. The only thing he does at an above average rate is block shots which I'm sure has a lot to ton with constantly being pinned. And he's reasonably good on faceoffs for a young player. I see no upside in his game and no reason to give him another second of TOI as a Ranger without seeing some serious improvement at the AHL level.

 

[Fitzy]

How is Lindgren #15?!

Yeah if you swap Howden and Lindgren you've got a pretty solid list.

 

[Greg02]

Say more....

Eichel is younger with less of an injury history, and is signed for longer term. Zibenejad is of course proven as a Ranger, a team leader, and cheaper, but if we're not using the cap space to make a legitimate run right now, the swap is advantageous because you get a player who fits the timeline of the team a bit better. You don't have to worry about your star center being a UFA at 29 right around the time your top young talent is going to get very expensive.

I guess there's the added twist of the cap having a lot more uncertainty over the next few years than one would have thought though.

 

[gravey9]

"Experts" opinions about Howden vary because some see him as a guy who made the jump to the NHL at 20 and has put up close to 20 points each season. Yet the people who watch him consistently see how bad he is

I think the Rangers thoughts on him are probably somewhere in the middle, but I can understand if someone like Pronman just looks at his stats relative to age and say "yeah he's a very promising under 25 guy"

Howden isn't bad for his age. He is perhaps our best young forward when it comes to defensive awareness and generally being in the right place. He's got a decent motor and he's not afraid to go to the dirty areas. He PKs. He's highly coachable. I wouldn't be surprised to see him become a bit of a leader this season for the even younger kids. If he can just work on his strength, his core and base strength, he'll be a very useful bottom 6 forward for a very long time. If he can't, he'll be bounce around a bunch. But to call him bad means, you'd have to call Kakko putrid. Because we'd be in the game unfairly judging young players before they're physically mature.

 

[bigdog16]

People need to relax on Howden. Two way forwards take time, he was never a player that was going to come in immediately and light the world on fire. If he turns into a 40 point 3C that can learn to be depended on in his own zone within the next few years thats a valuable player.

Can't just write off every forward that isnt a ppg forward at 22 years old

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Howden isn't bad for his age. He is perhaps our best young forward when it comes to defensive awareness and generally being in the right place. He's got a decent motor and he's not afraid to go to the dirty areas. He PKs. He's highly coachable. I wouldn't be surprised to see him become a bit of a leader this season for the even younger kids. If he can just work on his strength, his core and base strength, he'll be a very useful bottom 6 forward for a very long time. If he can't, he'll be bounce around a bunch. But to call him bad means, you'd have to call Kakko putrid. Because we'd be in the game unfairly judging young players before they're physically mature.

He was among the worst forwards in the league the last two years. He's been objectively bad.

It doesn't have to be black and white though. I can say he's bad while also taking into account his age and the fact he's not done developing.

But he's been bad, I don't think it's up for debate. Frankly there is no reason he shouldn't have spent a significant amount of time in the AHL the last two seasons