Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXVII

[True Blue]

PDG is fine as a 13F. Between him and Blackwell, we will have a winger on the 4th line who can take a regular shift. He isn't Micheal Haley.

Lemieux - Howden - PDG/Barron/Blackwell

If Howden can become just a league average 4C, that's a decent 4th line.

Rooney is going to get a shot at 4C.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

I know Vatanen has been bad recently but I think he could have some hope in Jacques’ system

 

[True Blue]

Interesting angle on expansion I hadn’t considered - with a super deep prospect pool the NYR could actually have something to offer teams worried about expansion that Seattle can’t.

Last time around we saw lots of pieces traded to Vegas to not take a given player...”expansion draft considerations”. If teams are reluctant to deal cheap futures due to economic uncertainty, NYR could offer them an exempt prospect for a good player they may been looking at losing anyway. Jump Seattle in line so to speak.

I think that expansion is playing a factor as to who is signed and not signed and/or traded for. I am positive that they do not want to risk needing to expose a player that they do not want to. Like one of the young defensemen.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I like DG. Wish he would supply a more offense, but hopefully that comes around next season. Not expecting it though.

 

[bobbop]

If we were to trade Deangelo, do you guys think there might be some sense in signing Vatanen for cheap. His market value dropped severely and he could be a decent RD stopgap.

If A then B yes. But a heavy lift to accomplish A right now.

 

[SA16]

Also why would we possibly trade DeAngleo now? Have you seen what the trade market looks like? It's a disaster. Better off signing him to his deal, whatever it may be, and looking to deal him in a year or two if things get that way.

 

[rangers1314]

Keeping in mind that our forward depth last season consisted of Brendan Smith and Michael Haley...I welcome PDG back with open arms.

 

[Thirty One]

I know Vatanen has been bad recently but I think he could have some hope in Jacques’ system

Every assistant coach we've ever had is either a miracle worker, or a drain who will suck any ability out of our players. There is no in between.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Every assistant coach we've ever had is either a miracle worker, or a drain who will suck any ability out of our players. There is no in between.

Indeed, and it changes depending on if we won the game or lost it.

 

[GAGLine]

Also why would we possibly trade DeAngleo now? Have you seen what the trade market looks like? It's a disaster. Better off signing him to his deal, whatever it may be, and looking to deal him in a year or two if things get that way.

The trade market is terrible for deals that are lopsided in terms of cap-space. Player for player deals that are roughly cap-neutral should be fine.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

The Isles got decent value for Toews as an RFA, the market is terrible for players with big contracts.

 

[TominNC]

I mean if you're not in first, you're in last. You can still get your young players experience even if you're an abysmal team. That's why it was so crucial for them to lose against Carolina, which I openly advocated for them to do and my post history shows it. They had a far, FAR greater chance of landing 1st overall than winning the Cup. And even if they had won against Carolina and didn't win the Cup, they still would've had a far better draft pick even if it were only at #13. The last thing you want to do is be good enough to be in the playoffs, but not good enough to seriously compete. At least if you're terrible you get good draft pick and are eligible for the lottery.

Nonsense. There's a process. Last year they got a small taste of post season. This coming year we look for a step forward from a lot of the kids. You need to surround them with competent vets, trying to win. Most fans realize they're not experienced enough and deep enough to win it all this season. But they should be striving for the next step forward. Throwing that away to tank would be unproductive. You don't go form last to the Cup.

 

[426ers]

I know Vatanen has been bad recently but I think he could have some hope in Jacques’ system

What is Jacques’ system? what is his approach defensively?

 

[RangerBoy]

Jeff Gorton is such a cut throat business guy. Good to see. No sentimental hand holding stuff.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

What is Jacques’ system? what is his approach defensively?

Despite his clearly flawed obsession with JMFJ, his system seems to create strong two-way defense that results in defenders being competent in their own end. His system favors board play and body on body contact in the defensive zone. Pittsburgh’s players had many flaws but they were able to read a play and play physical without taking themselves out of the play too often. Vatanen could use some coaching in that regard.

 

[Off Sides]

Also why would we possibly trade DeAngleo now? Have you seen what the trade market looks like? It's a disaster. Better off signing him to his deal, whatever it may be, and looking to deal him in a year or two if things get that way.

I'd probably just offer ADA a 1 year deal at about what they think he would get by going through with arbitration anyway.

Maybe also a offer to buy up his remaining 3 RFA years, or maybe those 3 and 1 UFA year as well, however I'm not thinking ADA is going to cut them much if any of a break there so they will probably end up just sticking with the one year deal, which turns into another 1 or 2 year deal next off-season or trade.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Jeff Gorton is such a cut throat business guy. Good to see. No sentimental hand holding stuff.

JD and JG have the whole good cop/bad cop down pat. Too bad JD's good cop won over when it came to JJ.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Just thinking about things:

Despite the Rangers being stacked organizationally and making some necessary moves to set themselves correctly financially - this flat cap that no one anticipated is really going to hamper them in the short teram and I am not as confident going into this season as I was before Covid hit. Even with Laf. I think thats safe to say now.

It's looking like they will be taking a step back or remain relatively the same next year, even with Lafreniere in the mix. They haven't been able to upgrade anywhere other than LW, downgraded on RW and we all know about the D. They will be forced to rely on the development of several young players to make any improvements over last seasons finish - but that's necessary right now.

Don't get me wrong, I am super excited to watch this team play (whenever that is) but signing JJ and losing Fast were two big hits. Not the end of the world and I understand there will be patience needed, but its definitely one of those two steps back so you can take 4 steps forward things.

The problem is that no one anticipated the flat cap, I can't blame the Rangers FO for that. They built their cap future based on the TV deal and a normal expanding limit. I'm sure it was a modest rise they predicted as well. But when you have to resign Zibanejad and others and now worry about all of the entry deal bonuses thrown into the mix, it's not going to be AS easy to fill the holes this team needs to fill to become a true competitor. I don't think it's the end of the world by any means, but it will be more of a challenge now.

The important thing to keep in mind is that all 31 teams have to deal with it and I'm sure that some of the new contracts will reflect that. We've already seen it begin to happen. But losing out on that potential 6-10M in the expanded upper limit (I am spit-balling that number) in 2-3-4 seasons is going to potentially hurt them from adding players who may be a notch more impactful and it will be more about retaining the services of what we have then adding in quality pieces. We have to hope that the free agent market dips a little, but im not sure it will

I think one of the saving graces is a kind of unintentional savings account the Rangers have built for themselves through the buyouts. Trading Staal was huge for the upcoming season instead of another possible buyout and with just about 13M coming off the books for next years free agency period that will be a huge cushion they can work with. Then another 4M comes off the following year. That is cap room they are desperate for, but they need to make the right decisions now to keep things as light as possible.

So I expect this upcoming season to be all about the kids and they may even finish below where they finished last season. Unless of course we see major developmental improvements from players like Chytil and Kakko.

 

[Leetch3]

If we were to trade Deangelo, do you guys think there might be some sense in signing Vatanen for cheap. His market value dropped severely and he could be a decent RD stopgap.

it depends on the price...if ADA gets moved then a short term deal for Vatanen to backfill would be great but he's probably too expensive...similar to ceci and hamonic.

kind of surprised that the depth signings of Johnson and Biletto that one of them wasn't a righty.

 

[WojtekWolski86]

Just thinking about things:

Despite the Rangers being stacked organizationally and making some necessary moves to set themselves correctly financially - this flat cap that no one anticipated is really going to hamper them in the short teram and I am not as confident going into this season as I was before Covid hit. Even with Laf. I think thats safe to say now.

It's looking like they will be taking a step back or remain relatively the same next year, even with Lafreniere in the mix. They haven't been able to upgrade anywhere other than LW, downgraded on RW and we all know about the D. They will be forced to rely on the development of several young players to make any improvements over last seasons finish - but that's necessary right now.

Don't get me wrong, I am super excited to watch this team play (whenever that is) but signing JJ and losing Fast were two big hits. Not the end of the world and I understand there will be patience needed, but its definitely one of those two steps back so you can take 4 steps forward things.

The problem is that no one anticipated the flat cap, I can't blame the Rangers FO for that. They built their cap future based on the TV deal and a normal expanding limit. I'm sure it was a modest rise they predicted as well. But when you have to resign Zibanejad and others and now worry about all of the entry deal bonuses thrown into the mix, it's not going to be AS easy to fill the holes this team needs to fill to become a true competitor. I don't think it's the end of the world by any means, but it will be more of a challenge now.

The important thing to keep in mind is that all 31 teams have to deal with it and I'm sure that some of the new contracts will reflect that. We've already seen it begin to happen. But losing out on that potential 6-10M in the expanded upper limit (I am spit-balling that number) in 2-3-4 seasons is going to potentially hurt them from adding players who may be a notch more impactful and it will be more about retaining the services of what we have then adding in quality pieces. We have to hope that the free agent market dips a little, but im not sure it will

I think one of the saving graces is a kind of unintentional savings account the Rangers have built for themselves through the buyouts. Trading Staal was huge for the upcoming season instead of another possible buyout and with just about 13M coming off the books for next years free agency period that will be a huge cushion they can work with. Then another 4M comes off the following year. That is cap room they are desperate for, but they need to make the right decisions now to keep things as light as possible.

So I expect this upcoming season to be all about the kids and they may even finish below where they finished last season. Unless of course we see major developmental improvements from players like Chytil and Kakko.

I think just like any rebuild, success will be predicated on young guys stepping up.

Ideal world you have some vets that can insulate young guys so their isnt so much pressure to perform but unfortunately that isnt the hand that is dealt. Best foot forward is to tell Kaako and Chytil the world is your oyster and we are giving you an opportunity in the top 6. Especially with Chytil at 2C, we are pretty much going to fall on this sword and it will either succeed or be stuck with Strome's deficiencies with top 6 ice time and Ziba plays 26 min a game.

 

[True Blue]

I think just like any rebuild, success will be predicated on young guys stepping up.

Ideal world you have some vets that can insulate young guys so their isnt so much pressure to perform but unfortunately that isnt the hand that is dealt. Best foot forward is to tell Kaako and Chytil the world is your oyster and we are giving you an opportunity in the top 6. Especially with Chytil at 2C, we are pretty much going to fall on this sword and it will either succeed or be stuck with Strome's deficiencies with top 6 ice time and Ziba plays 26 min a game.

The vets are already here to insulate the kids. With Strome at 2C, no one is rushed or a timeline is moved. Some of the younger ones got that year of experience in and even got a taste of the playoffs. It looks like there will be opportunities for players like Kakko and Gauthier to step up and play RW on the Panarin/Strome line.

This is likely a bubble team next year anyway. Will be entertaining, but they are even younger than they were last year. There will be ups and downs.

 

[Kravtsov420]

I’m not sure if I’m the only one that feels this way, but I’m concerned with Kakko. Not because of anything he’s doing wrong, but because of circumstance.

I’m pretty concerned with him being on the second line. I think that the grinding and cycling game will come more with his body maturing and him getting older, but I think right now he really excels when he has a line mate that is great at getting to the puck first with the forecheck. I think that’s why the second line really worked with Fast being a big component on the forecheck and getting to the puck. I don’t think Strome is good enough in that aspect to help Kakko. Strome’s strength really comes with his chemistry with Panarin and being able to finish.

I’m also really worried about Kakko being pushed to the second power play unit due to circumstance as well with Laf coming in. I also don’t trust Quinn enough to not put Ryan Strome or some other stupid decision on the half wall. I think Kakko’s strengths lie within having time and space. We know speed is not his game but it’s his ability his body and leverage when he has time and space. I think that the half wall on the first powerplay is where is would be really effective.

Not sure if I’m the only one with these thoughts. But I don’t trust the organizations/fanbases lack of patience to want to cut ties with him in an Eichel package the first chance they get if this happens and Kakko doesn’t light it up on the second line.

It’s going to really take time and patience.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Jeff Gorton is such a cut throat business guy. Good to see. No sentimental hand holding stuff.

Jup. He's the last guy to play Mr. Nice.

This is one of the main things that professional sports is about.

 

[kovazub94]

Just thinking about things:

Despite the Rangers being stacked organizationally and making some necessary moves to set themselves correctly financially - this flat cap that no one anticipated is really going to hamper them in the short teram and I am not as confident going into this season as I was before Covid hit. Even with Laf. I think thats safe to say now.

It's looking like they will be taking a step back or remain relatively the same next year, even with Lafreniere in the mix. They haven't been able to upgrade anywhere other than LW, downgraded on RW and we all know about the D. They will be forced to rely on the development of several young players to make any improvements over last seasons finish - but that's necessary right now.

Don't get me wrong, I am super excited to watch this team play (whenever that is) but signing JJ and losing Fast were two big hits. Not the end of the world and I understand there will be patience needed, but its definitely one of those two steps back so you can take 4 steps forward things.

The problem is that no one anticipated the flat cap, I can't blame the Rangers FO for that. They built their cap future based on the TV deal and a normal expanding limit. I'm sure it was a modest rise they predicted as well. But when you have to resign Zibanejad and others and now worry about all of the entry deal bonuses thrown into the mix, it's not going to be AS easy to fill the holes this team needs to fill to become a true competitor. I don't think it's the end of the world by any means, but it will be more of a challenge now.

The important thing to keep in mind is that all 31 teams have to deal with it and I'm sure that some of the new contracts will reflect that. We've already seen it begin to happen. But losing out on that potential 6-10M in the expanded upper limit (I am spit-balling that number) in 2-3-4 seasons is going to potentially hurt them from adding players who may be a notch more impactful and it will be more about retaining the services of what we have then adding in quality pieces. We have to hope that the free agent market dips a little, but im not sure it will

I think one of the saving graces is a kind of unintentional savings account the Rangers have built for themselves through the buyouts. Trading Staal was huge for the upcoming season instead of another possible buyout and with just about 13M coming off the books for next years free agency period that will be a huge cushion they can work with. Then another 4M comes off the following year. That is cap room they are desperate for, but they need to make the right decisions now to keep things as light as possible.

So I expect this upcoming season to be all about the kids and they may even finish below where they finished last season. Unless of course we see major developmental improvements from players like Chytil and Kakko.

You're right that the upcoming season seems to be all about the continuous development of kids. You're wrong in the estimating (downplaying) its impact.

1OA freshman season, 2OA sophomore season, also sophomore seasons for Shesterkin, Fox & Lindgren. Then 3rd seasons for Chytil, Howden. Gauthier is wild card. We haven't seen the best of American Buch yet. IMO the only thing that could slow them down in pursuit of play-offs is injuries.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

I know Vatanen has been bad recently but I think he could have some hope in Jacques’ system

Not a bad idea to sign on a "prove-it" deal. Or even Hamonic. If we trade TDA, we have an opening at RD3 unless they want to play Smith there.