Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LVI

[Savant]

My hot take is that with today's conditioning, 4th liners shouldn't be playing much except in long games in the playoffs.

Do you need one or two spare forwards to fill in for shifts where there is an injury, or a player is in the penalty box? Sure. But do you need the 10th, 11th, and 12th best forwards on your team skating a regular shift all together? I'm not sure.

I get that this allows teams to 'stretch' forwards ice time on the PP, but we're gonna have two decently balanced PP units if they play their cards right.

If they up the ES minutes of (Now possibly third line players) Chytil, Kredier, and the like, we shouldn't have to see Lemieux at ES more than 9 minutes a game and the other two guys more than 5. (Though ideally they can kill penalties.)

I’m closer to this view too. 4th line is where you stick your role players. I don’t think you need a 4th line but I think it’s worse to try and force one together. That never really works. I don't even have a problem with 11F 7D, or using a utility guy like Smith. Find guys that contribute on special teams/faceoffs that aren’t going to kill you and keep them there. Martin is a terrible idea. Taking players like that from rival teams that have already used up their best mileage very seldom works.

 

[egelband]

Hanifin interests me a lot. His development certainly hasn’t been a straight line but I’ve seen many young defensemen who don’t figure things out at a young age but go up from there. He was pretty good in 2018-19, not as good this year. He does have some similarities to Brady Skeji but I think he is a better player. And I think his upside is much greater.

There’s sure a lot of smoke between here and Calgary.

I like Buch and Strome but I’d be fine if the Rangers can find a good deal to cash out on either or both. I’d rather hold ADA and Lemmy.

 

[RangersFan1994]

I bet Kravtsov or Barron will get a look at center before Rangers make a panic trade for a center

 

[Alluckks]

Just crushing s kid who was one of the few in our playoff debacle that showed consistent battle. He's physically maturing still, he's like a wet noodle. He needs to time. People do not like the P word

Mentality, resolve, and play style reminds me a lot of Brian Boyle, and in a good way

 

[Synergy27]

Hanifin interests me a lot. His development certainly hasn’t been a straight line but I’ve seen many young defensemen who don’t figure things out at a young age but go up from there. He was pretty good in 2018-19, not as good this year. He does have some similarities to Brady Skeji but I think he is a better player. And I think his upside is much greater.

There’s sure a lot of smoke between here and Calgary.

Not sure if this has been discussed here or not, and I do know there’s a desire for many here to expand this to include Lindholm, but what about a straight up Tony D for Hanifin hockey trade? I feel like people here would want more in return?

 

[NYR Viper]

Howden is 22. Friendly reminder that Kreider, Hayes and Boyle we’re older than he is currently when they made their NHL debuts. Boyle much older before he became an effective 4th liner on this team.

I would prefer to see a veteran, hard-nosed 4th line winger added to play with Lemieux and Howden. Gauthier to the 3rd line with Chytil.

Someone like Clifford or Reaves is who I’d be looking at. If Gorton uses someone like Buch to bring in a d-man then I’d also sign Nosek if possible.

I really believe Buch and/or Strome are traded.

 

[pld459666]

You can't be physical if there's nobody to hit. We don't put ourselves in situations where hitting is necessary.

Quinn preaches playing hard and stuff but he plays the same passive, conservative, scared-kitten system AV did.

I agree that this is a problem.

 

[jay from jersey]

Hanifin is certainly a guy that could be a late bloomer, but I’m also not exactly sure what he does. Doesn’t seem like a great offensive guy or defensive guy. I think he is a better version of Skjei, but I also don’t know if that’s a compliment. I don’t know if he ever gets to that McDonagh level for example. Rangers need to be really careful that the LHD they acquire is a good fit with Trouba, because that’s where they are going to settle up. With Brodin off the board, and Dunn likely off the board, the pool is shrinking a bit.

As for his development, the guy who coached him for most of his pro career was one Bill Peters, so who knows of there is some collateral damage from that.

That is they key. Trouba played his best hockey with morissey . As the season went on Trouba got better. Dunn would be a good partner. He needs someone on his left that is mobile and makes good decisions with the puck. That will allow Jake to be more physical. We may have it within our system already in Miller or Robertson. They key is the chemistry that develops between the 2. There were a few games where Lindgren was paired with Trouba as well. They weren’t bad at all. I think at the start of the year Trouba was trying to do too much to impress. When he can focus on his game with a dependable mobile partner he is a very good defenseman and very tough to play against. I’m hoping miller turns into a bigger version of josh morrisey. While miller is big and mobile he’s not overly physical. He doesn’t go around looking to throw huge hits but he does not shy away from contact. His decision making and game awareness needs improvement though which is to be expected from a kid that wasn’t a defenseman all his life. I’m hoping miller is that guy

 

[haohmaru]

Here is everyone’s friendly reminder that howden isn’t an NHL player

Here's a friendly reminder that 136 NHL games by age 21 = "NHL Player"

 

[pld459666]

In order to limit the minutes of the 4th line, its nice to have a great top 6, but if that third line is trash, you are not going to be managing your TOI very well.

CK and PB
AP and KK
AL and

Thats where the problem starts in terms of limiting TOI for the 4th line.

Mika, Strome, Chytil are down the middle, who's the RW that we can trust on tjat 3rd like?

Maybe CK shifts there, but who slots up??

AL to top line and Lemmy to 3rd line?

Do we trust Gauthier to play a competent 3rd line next to CK and FC??

Its easy to

 

[egelband]

My hot take is that with today's conditioning, 4th liners shouldn't be playing much except in long games in the playoffs.

Do you need one or two spare forwards to fill in for shifts where there is an injury, or a player is in the penalty box? Sure. But do you need the 10th, 11th, and 12th best forwards on your team skating a regular shift all together? I'm not sure.

I get that this allows teams to 'stretch' forwards ice time on the PP, but we're gonna have two decently balanced PP units if they play their cards right.

If they up the ES minutes of (Now possibly third line players) Chytil, Kredier, and the like, we shouldn't have to see Lemieux at ES more than 9 minutes a game and the other two guys more than 5. (Though ideally they can kill penalties.)

Interesting point. Players now can surely handle more minutes. Particularly with all the breaks. I’ve always wondered if there was really a huge difference between playing 16 and 20 mins a night. I bet there isn’t, physically. It’s one more shift per period.

 

[leetch99]

Tony

DeAngelo is an elite offensive right shot 24 year old former first round pick Dman

he’s on his 3rd team and for some reason that team is shopping him around. Add in He has a very public And polarizing reputation that proceeds him

and we’re wondering why he may not be attractive to other teams? This worries me. This is why I was complaining about the podcast. I don’t think any of this stuff is attractive to anyone in a very conservative league that hates big personalities

Tony would look some good on TB's PP unit these days instead of Shattenkirk . Tony is much more opportunistic and would have been better then Shattenkirk ....imagine Tony feeding them passes to the speedy TB forwards right now . Now sit back and imagine him feeding Kakko,Lafrenier,Mika,Panarin and speedsters Kreider and Gauthier....that is an element we best retain for the sake of sacrificing some defense . He is a game changer . Personally though I think management should tame him a bit on his off ice stuff for the good of the whole club and have him focus on doing things that will help his game and not generate more hate for the club then we will have in the future .

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Tony
Tony would look some good on TB's PP unit these days instead of Shattenkirk . Tony is much more opportunistic and would have been better then Shattenkirk ....imagine Tony feeding them passes to the speedy TB forwards right now . Now sit back and imagine him feeding Kakko,Lafrenier,Mika,Panarin and speedsters Kreider and Gauthier....that is an element we best retain for the sake of sacrificing some defense . He is a game changer . Personally though I think management should tame him a bit on his off ice stuff for the good of the whole club and have him focus on doing things that will help his game and not generate more hate for the club then we will have in the future .

Now imagine a salary cap

 

[frozenrubber]

Interesting point. Players now can surely handle more minutes. Particularly with all the breaks. I’ve always wondered if there was really a huge difference between playing 16 and 20 mins a night. I bet there isn’t, physically. It’s one more shift per period.

You could make the case that it's the opposite.

Simplifying, injuries are directly related to exposure risk (playing time). Theoretically, that risk should also increase with fatigue on the body (when playing more). For example, injuries from blocking a shot are not based on conditioning, they are based on sample size of # of blocked shots.

Can you minimize this via better conditioning and off-ice rest/maintenance, yes. But, I'd rather have a top player going 100% for 17 minutes/night compared to being a pacer on a few shifts to manage energy. Playing heavy top 3 line minutes is successful in the shortrun, but takes huge toll over the many hundred day grind that is a season.

Ideally, you should utilize a 4th line that can pickup heavy short-handed time. Save the minutes for top players when they statistically have the best chance to score.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Here's a friendly reminder that 136 NHL games by age 21 = "NHL Player"

Nope

 

[leetch99]

Now imagine a salary cap

It has been written in here a million times a million different ways and scenarios for the retention of Tony and staying within the Cap parameters . Buy outs-trades -retirements....and whatever way /combo of to find 5 million for Tony and possibly not needed until the following year . Worse case scenario...you look at it at the deadline when he has racked up almost a PPG average playing with that top 9 we have .....increases his value....and betters our return if a future deal can not be mutually agreed upon . I have a feeling though he will be around for a few more seasons....

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

It’s almost astounding to realize Brett Howden has never spent a second in Hartford when you consider how awful he’s looked the last two years

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

It’s almost astounding to realize Brett Howden has never spent a second in Hartford when you consider how awful he’s looked the last two years

When the coach likes you, you get away with more.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I agree that this is a problem.

The difference is AV played that system with a veteran team. I think, with Quinn, as the team matures and the defense gets more mobile and athletic, that system will change and evolve.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I bet Kravtsov or Barron will get a look at center before Rangers make a panic trade for a center

If their options are to move a wing who is finally showing signs of being the player the team drafted to center or counting on a kid who has never played professional hockey before, I would argue that a trade for a center would be far from a panic trade.

 

[QJL]

That is they key. Trouba played his best hockey with morissey . As the season went on Trouba got better. Dunn would be a good partner. He needs someone on his left that is mobile and makes good decisions with the puck. That will allow Jake to be more physical. We may have it within our system already in Miller or Robertson. They key is the chemistry that develops between the 2. There were a few games where Lindgren was paired with Trouba as well. They weren’t bad at all. I think at the start of the year Trouba was trying to do too much to impress. When he can focus on his game with a dependable mobile partner he is a very good defenseman and very tough to play against. I’m hoping miller turns into a bigger version of josh morrisey. While miller is big and mobile he’s not overly physical. He doesn’t go around looking to throw huge hits but he does not shy away from contact. His decision making and game awareness needs improvement though which is to be expected from a kid that wasn’t a defenseman all his life. I’m hoping miller is that guy

I actually feel more confident in the prospects of Miller or Robertson morphing into a good partner for Trouba. Dunn is often a liability defensively. Morrissey was a defensive stud since the moment he stepped into the league. Very different players.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

In order to limit the minutes of the 4th line, its nice to have a great top 6, but if that third line is trash, you are not going to be managing your TOI very well.

CK and PB
AP and KK
AL and

Thats where the problem starts in terms of limiting TOI for the 4th line.

Mika, Strome, Chytil are down the middle, who's the RW that we can trust on tjat 3rd like?

Maybe CK shifts there, but who slots up??

AL to top line and Lemmy to 3rd line?

Do we trust Gauthier to play a competent 3rd line next to CK and FC??

Its easy to

This is why I’m an advocate of moving Krieder down to the 3rd line especially if the other two are young like personably Chytil and Kratvsov. If the 3RW is Gauthier then maybe he’ll learn from Krieder more. Agree that it’s critical to have a dependable 3rd.

 

[NYSPORTS]

This is why I’m an advocate of moving Krieder down to the 3rd line especially if the other two are young like personably Chytil and Kratvsov. If the 3RW is Gauthier then maybe he’ll learn from Krieder more. Agree that it’s critical to have a dependable 3rd.

lot of money for a 3rd liner yet the Rangers situation became unique with that lottery win. Who knows, maybe Laf does get a crack at Center.

 

[RGY]

Not sure if this has been discussed here or not, and I do know there’s a desire for many here to expand this to include Lindholm, but what about a straight up Tony D for Hanifin hockey trade? I feel like people here would want more in return?

Absolutely f***ing not. That would be an abysmal trade. Hanifan has been underwhelming in his career. And while his upside may put him ahead of Brady Skjei eventually*, he is still right on par with Skjei currently TODAY. You dont trade a much more premium asset/player in DeAngelo for Hanifan. Yuck.

 

[QJL]

lot of money for a 3rd liner yet the Rangers situation became unique with that lottery win. Who knows, maybe Laf does get a crack at Center.

At this rate, Kravtsov should be back for opening night.

With no trades, this is what I want to see:

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Buchnevich
Panarin - Strome - Kakko
Kreider - Chytil - Kravtsov
Lemieux - Barron - Fast
Howden - Gauthier

People can complain all they want about Kreider’s money on the 3rd line but I have zero concerns. Guy will continue play 15+ minutes on a line that could be our best on any given night.