Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LV

[NYR Viper]

Been posting about this possibility since the overvalued Keller pitch, but Pierre McGuire is reporting that teams are going to be sold.

TeamS plural?

 

[Edge]

TeamS plural?

Keller being on the block would be the least surprising aspect of this off-season for me.

Months ago I was told he was a distinct possbility to be moved and that management was already divided on him as a long-term investment.

Rangers asked about him June (reported here), and the serious traction of Keller potentially being moved goes back to at least November (on here).

 

[NYR Viper]

Keller being on the block would be the least surprising aspect of this off-season for me.

Months ago I was told he was a distinct possbility to be moved and that management was already divided on him as a long-term investment.

Rangers asked about him June (reported here), and the serious traction of Keller potentially being moved goes back to at least November (on here).

Ah sorry, I took it as multiple teams were looking to sell (as in the owners were selling).

Keller being the odd-man out makes sense. Think the Rangers kick the tires?

 

[GAGLine]

I like Krebs as a prospect quite a bit. I'm not sure I like him enough to be the centerpiece of a DeAngelo deal though. Earlier in the year I thought Tuch and Krebs for DeAngelo and Georgiev would be interesting for them but that was pre-Lehner and and also prior to Tuch having a strong playoff.

Just have a hard time seeing Gorton dealing a guy who was top-5 in scoring from the blue line for a completely unproven quantity. It also goes against the insight from Edge that the Rangers probably aren't looking to deal roster players for picks and prospects.

While I fully expect that we will see players coming in to balance out whomever we send out, it could end up being a multi-step process. Trade ADA for futures and then trade futures for a player we need. It would be easier to make that work, I think, than trying to find an exact player for player match.

 

[GAGLine]

Ah sorry, I took it as multiple teams were looking to sell (as in the owners were selling).

Keller being the odd-man out makes sense. Think the Rangers kick the tires?

If they see him as a center, maybe, but it would be tough to make the contract fit.

 

[LokiDog]

While I fully expect that we will see players coming in to balance out whomever we send out, it could end up being a multi-step process. Trade ADA for futures and then trade futures for a player we need. It would be easier to make that work, I think, than trying to find an exact player for player match.

This is another aspect that never gets talked about. If you’re going to move a player like ADA, why not get the absolute best return possible and have another deal in the works that flips those assets/existing assets to get the piece you want.

 

[Edge]

Ah sorry, I took it as multiple teams were looking to sell (as in the owners were selling).

Keller being the odd-man out makes sense. Think the Rangers kick the tires?

Doubtful at this point.

In a world without the top pick, or Kreider re-signing, I think they would have interest though.

 

[Mikos87]

There are what I have found to be a mix of "advanced" team KPIs that are pretty interesting in hockey. These aren't the analyses you see out there on Twitterverse... same source data, but with my spin on it. Generally speaking the final 4 teams from the last 10 years in the NHL (all conference finalists) come from teams that finish in the top 5-7 in these KPI sets.

Basically it measures... here is how the game is played... here are the circumstantial scenarios that you see in the game of hockey... here's whose good.... then we get a little more specialized in how that information is augmented.

Net/Net here are the Rangers gaps to true contention imo, with alternative player profile options to fill that gap, or how to acquire it:


Top 6 Center: Strome can fill in the slot for a regular season team or another 1st round exit. Overall the team is still early in their build up towards contention, but waiting two to three more years for Fil isn't going to fly. So unless Fil takes a step, I think you upgrade this slot in the off-season of 2021.

Trade or Wait for Filip to Take a Step.

• 45-55 Point Center who is reliable defensively
• 70 point center who reaps favorable

Top 4 LD: It's all about Special K' here as he is physically more than ready and capable of dominating the NHL game. I think he pushes for a spot, but you need some veteran insulation with kids and injuries. You also have to protect Lindy from Seattle. Hajek needs to take a step, and unless you get surprised by Tarmo, I think you have to make an acquisition this off-season. With the Seattle draft coming up, this isn't the time to acquire a player who will expose another player you have to protect.

Trade or Value Free Agent Signing

• 15-18 minute at 5v5 night mobile LD who is reliable defensively, and can make a solid first pass
• Sign a modern journeyman like Nathan Beulieu

Top 6 W: You have Laf, KK, & currently Kravstov with Gaut being a fringe option in the prospect pool. While you don't have to make a trade to add a player, you can make one to upgrade a player. But with Laf and KK, there really isn't a need when the team already has Panarin, Kreider, and Buchnevich.

Wait for one of the kids to take the spot.

• Internal Options

4th Line Grinders: You can have a guy like Zibs be the next Kopitar. But I don't want him out there trying to block a shot from Ovechkin. You need bodies who are versatile and embrace being a grinder. I think with some kids, they still believe in the upside as if they are getting pep talks from first time agent in a junior locker room. If you're a grinder, you're a grinder, be a f***ing grinder. You're still a 1% income earner in society if you do. If you don't, you're not. Get guys who already believe in that or get your guys to believe in that, otherwise you aren't building an identity of hard work. Period.

Trade for a high character grinder who can impact the locker room. Wait for a kid or two to develop.

• Howden could be an option, but he needs to be paired up with a veteran grinder.
• Trade Options- Ideally you find a Sundqvist before he takes a step.
• Get a guy or two who know what to do here.
• Hire a defensive forwards advisor.
• Build your messaging around guys who embrace leaving a game where they threw their around and not make excuses for disengaged play.

Veteran Depth Defensemen: Not talking about the Chayka type of D here, but rather AHLers who can play an NHL shift or 7-8th guys that act as insulation. I think you need what Jason Strudwick brought back in the day. You have that in Marc Staal but maybe at a fraction of the cap hit. Helps the locker room out too, shows guys around cool places. Think adding a guy like this can be tremendously beneficial, especially if one of Smith or Staal are not brought back.

UFA signing/Low Asset price trade

 

[bleedblue94]

AZ signed Hill to backup cheap
Raanta should be the goner to say the Sens or Wings?

It's been reported the keumper is being traded, it seems they are looking to cash in on his performance

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

There are what I have found to be a mix of "advanced" team KPIs that are pretty interesting in hockey. These aren't the analyses you see out there on Twitterverse... same source data, but with my spin on it. Generally speaking the final 4 teams from the last 10 years in the NHL (all conference finalists) come from teams that finish in the top 5-7 in these KPI sets.

Basically it measures... here is how the game is played... here are the circumstantial scenarios that you see in the game of hockey... here's whose good.... then we get a little more specialized in how that information is augmented.

Net/Net here are the Rangers gaps to true contention imo, with alternative player profile options to fill that gap, or how to acquire it:


Top 6 Center: Strome can fill in the slot for a regular season team or another 1st round exit. Overall the team is still early in their build up towards contention, but waiting two to three more years for Fil isn't going to fly. So unless Fil takes a step, I think you upgrade this slot in the off-season of 2021.

Trade or Wait for Filip to Take a Step.

• 45-55 Point Center who is reliable defensively
• 70 point center who reaps favorable

Top 4 LD: It's all about Special K' here as he is physically more than ready and capable of dominating the NHL game. I think he pushes for a spot, but you need some veteran insulation with kids and injuries. You also have to protect Lindy from Seattle. Hajek needs to take a step, and unless you get surprised by Tarmo, I think you have to make an acquisition this off-season. With the Seattle draft coming up, this isn't the time to acquire a player who will expose another player you have to protect.

Trade or Value Free Agent Signing

• 15-18 minute at 5v5 night mobile LD who is reliable defensively, and can make a solid first pass
• Sign a modern journeyman like Nathan Beulieu

Top 6 W: You have Laf, KK, & currently Kravstov with Gaut being a fringe option in the prospect pool. While you don't have to make a trade to add a player, you can make one to upgrade a player. But with Laf and KK, there really isn't a need when the team already has Panarin, Kreider, and Buchnevich.

Wait for one of the kids to take the spot.

• Internal Options

4th Line Grinders: You can have a guy like Zibs be the next Kopitar. But I don't want him out there trying to block a shot from Ovechkin. You need bodies who are versatile and embrace being a grinder. I think with some kids, they still believe in the upside as if they are getting pep talks from first time agent in a junior locker room. If you're a grinder, you're a grinder, be a f***ing grinder. You're still a 1% income earner in society if you do. If you don't, you're not. Get guys who already believe in that or get your guys to believe in that, otherwise you aren't building an identity of hard work. Period.

Trade for a high character grinder who can impact the locker room. Wait for a kid or two to develop.

• Howden could be an option, but he needs to be paired up with a veteran grinder.
• Trade Options- Ideally you find a Sundqvist before he takes a step.
• Get a guy or two who know what to do here.
• Hire a defensive forwards advisor.
• Build your messaging around guys who embrace leaving a game where they threw their around and not make excuses for disengaged play.

Veteran Depth Defensemen: Not talking about the Chayka type of D here, but rather AHLers who can play an NHL shift or 7-8th guys that act as insulation. I think you need what Jason Strudwick brought back in the day. You have that in Marc Staal but maybe at a fraction of the cap hit. Helps the locker room out too, shows guys around cool places. Think adding a guy like this can be tremendously beneficial, especially if one of Smith or Staal are not brought back.

UFA signing/Low Asset price trade

Reading this, the Rangers really aren't close. A lot of what you say is missing (a lot of which I agree with) is not the easiest to acquire either by FA or trade. I happen to think they lack 2, possibly even 3, centers at the moment..

 

[Trxjw]

While I fully expect that we will see players coming in to balance out whomever we send out, it could end up being a multi-step process. Trade ADA for futures and then trade futures for a player we need. It would be easier to make that work, I think, than trying to find an exact player for player match.

Certainly possible but giving up your most premium asset for futures seems like a hell of a risk.

 

[bleedblue94]

Keller being on the block would be the least surprising aspect of this off-season for me.

Months ago I was told he was a distinct possbility to be moved and that management was already divided on him as a long-term investment.

Rangers asked about him June (reported here), and the serious traction of Keller potentially being moved goes back to at least November (on here).

Is Keller still a possible piece here or do you think with the lottery win and cap flattening for a few years that ship has sailed based on his cap hit and assets to get him?

Also, what impact do you think yesterdays game has on any potential deal(s) going forward and specifically with our boys in blue?

 

[Edge]

Is Keller still a possible piece here or do you think with the lottery win and cap flattening for a few years that ship has sailed based on his cap hit and assets to get him?

Also, what impact do you think yesterdays game has on any potential deal(s) going forward and specifically with our boys in blue?

Right now, I don't see a path to Keller or a strong desire to go that direction. I think Lafreniere and Kreider have closed that door from both a roster building standpoint and a salary standpoint.

Vegas is a possible trade partner, but I don't suspect they are the Rangers preferred partner. I don't think the Rangers are looking for futures when it comes to ADA. I think they strongly prefer a roster player. I don't know if Vegas is willing to part with the roster pieces the Rangers would like.

 

[Mikos87]

Keller being on the block would be the least surprising aspect of this off-season for me.

Months ago I was told he was a distinct possbility to be moved and that management was already divided on him as a long-term investment.

Rangers asked about him June (reported here), and the serious traction of Keller potentially being moved goes back to at least November (on here).

Keller's anti-social. So the issue of team chemistry and all of that is an issue. I don't think that's a real problem. I think it's a cultural misfit since the expectations on how the kid should interact versus what he does are two very very different things. You also had Chayka who seems to have had a thing for giving out long term contracts thinking that was the smart move... without ever considering what that can do to a person's motivation level.

IMHO- This thing between Keller and ARI is the first Gen Z vs the Millennial misalignment in hockey.

I'm sure the Rangers management have kids who spend their entire time on an iPad or playing video games, and not giving a shit about what's around them. But if those kids can do out an ace a test, or their weekend sports game you get a kid who just did that, and goes back to the iPad. That's Clayton Keller.

 

[bleedblue94]

Right now, I don't see a path to Keller or a strong desire to go that direction. I think Lafreniere and Kreider have closed that door from both a roster building standpoint and a salary standpoint.

Vegas is a possible trade partner, but I don't suspect they are the Rangers preferred partner. I don't think the Rangers are looking for futures when it comes to ADA. I think they strongly prefer a roster player. I don't know if Vegas is willing to part with the roster pieces the Rangers would like.

So that would be why there could be a focus on the flames in case they intend to make some major changes.

 

[Leetch3]

I'll take Ryan Reaves

they just signed him to a new deal and his cap hit of $1.75 mil isn't that bad...

I think the more likely salary coming back will be a dman that would get bumped from the lineup which the rangers would be ok with most likely cause they will need a dman. mcnabb ($2.5 mil, signed for 2 years and played 71 games) and holden ($1.7 mil, signed for 2 years and played 61 games) would both fill our expansion exposure requirements.

but I wouldn't consider either the + in the deal. that would be just taking back a salary to make the deal work. they would still have to add something.

 

[Mikos87]

Reading this, the Rangers really aren't close. A lot of what you say is missing (a lot of which I agree with) is not the easiest to acquire either by FA or trade. I happen to think they lack 2, possibly even 3, centers at the moment..

Which is why I think they will need 3-6 transaction periods, meaning the draft, free agency, and trade deadlines, to get to those pieces. Which really is two years if you think about it. If this off-season is about getting the veteran depth, and that 4th liner, you can run a weaker defense core with Strome for one more year. You have to anyway since the Seattle draft can force you to go 4-4 if you trade for that big defenseman now.

If they shore up their depth options for the next two-three years this off-season, then I will consider it a success.

 

[True Blue]

While I fully expect that we will see players coming in to balance out whomever we send out, it could end up being a multi-step process. Trade ADA for futures and then trade futures for a player we need. It would be easier to make that work, I think, than trying to find an exact player for player match.

The problem with that is that you need the second deal be set before you do the first. I do not see Gorton (and who knows, I am not Gorton nor do I play him on tv) subtracting such a piece from the starting roster without bringing back that will help the starting line up immediately. Subtracting a defenseman who was 5th in scoring out of all defensemen is a significant hole on the starting roster. Gorton will not hamstring the team for a prolong period of time like that.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Minn doesn’t touch that. Hajek hasn’t proven himself yet. He’s not dead in the water but his shine has started to fade and it’s likely he gets passed by other upcoming defenseman.

I’m personally not a fan of Lias, but the jury is still out.

Lias, Hajek, and 22OA is probably in the ballpark.

I agree, only thing better than zero value is doubling it...

 

[Off Sides]

I am not so sure how a multi step trade turning ADA into prospects/picks then flipping some or all of that for a good young player works.

Wouldn't any team looking to trade for picks and prospects want to keep their own good young players as that would be the point to them wanting picks and prospects in the first place?

 

[Mikos87]

they just signed him to a new deal and his cap hit of $1.75 mil isn't that bad...

I think the more likely salary coming back will be a dman that would get bumped from the lineup which the rangers would be ok with most likely cause they will need a dman. mcnabb ($2.5 mil, signed for 2 years and played 71 games) and holden ($1.7 mil, signed for 2 years and played 61 games) would both fill our expansion exposure requirements.

but I wouldn't consider either the + in the deal. that would be just taking back a salary to make the deal work. they would still have to add something.

McNabb takes a lot of bad penalties, Brenden Smith like or worse (think the Rangers Ryan Strome was the worst offenders in the league as well). I mentioned this months ago, and why Vegas needed defensemen. Vegas' management is short-sighted on a couple of things. Send them a Western boy, they'll pay a premium for that. Seriously, I mean that.

 

[True Blue]

I am not so sure how a multi step trade turning ADA into prospects/picks then flipping some or all of that for a good young player works.

Wouldn't any team looking to trade for picks and prospects want to keep their own good young players as that would be the point to them wanting picks and prospects in the first place?

I think that the more one starts to layer onto a trade (multiple trades, multiple players) the more unrealistic a trade starts to look. Especially when it comes a player like a DeAngelo whose trade value will be done to improve both the present and the future and not just the future.

 

[Leetch3]

McNabb takes a lot of bad penalties, Brenden Smith like or worse (think the Rangers Ryan Strome was the worst offenders in the league as well). I mentioned this months ago, and why Vegas needed defensemen. Vegas' management is short-sighted on a couple of things. Send them a Western boy, they'll pay a premium for that. Seriously, I mean that.

well I didn't mention him cause I thought he was good. it was a salary dump from their side.

 

[Off Sides]

I think that the more one starts to layer onto a trade (multiple trades, multiple players) the more unrealistic a trade starts to look. Especially when it comes a player like a DeAngelo whose trade value will be done to improve both the present and the future and not just the future.

I think any team who had any good young players and is looking to add picks/prospects is probably rebuilding, or they have financial issues. In either case they'd likely be keeping their good young players as those are the best to keep for their rebuild or they are least likely to have big cap hits, and if they have some who happen to be young, good and also have a big cap hit, how do the Rangers fit them in anyway?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

McNabb takes a lot of bad penalties, Brenden Smith like or worse (think the Rangers Ryan Strome was the worst offenders in the league as well). I mentioned this months ago, and why Vegas needed defensemen. Vegas' management is short-sighted on a couple of things. Send them a Western boy, they'll pay a premium for that. Seriously, I mean that.

Could Howden be involved in an ADA deal in that case? If they’re gonna trade is Krebs of Glass (hypothetically), I think sending back Howden makes some sense