Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LV

[Krams]

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[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Hey, folks, I just remembered...

...we won the 1st pick overall!!!

23 days until the draft.

 

[Rongomania]

@KreiderBomb & @MahomesIsGod

The entire offense was horrendous, Tony for an injured player made some seriously beautiful O plays that none of our players ever put in the net. Tony is not gonna score goals all on his own during a playoff series against a great team, and yes he's gonna get walked on D. We know we are going to just have to deal with that, but I just don't think Troubda or Fox are capable of what Tony is offensively.

And I love Fox and Troubda I really do. I think keeping ADA and Fox for the next 10 years would be unreal and unlike anything we've seen before on our back end in the 'modern era'.

I'm f*ckin very excited, but I hate that you're all right that a few guys are just going to have to go now that we have two young serious game changers coming up in Kakko & Laf and they're going to get PAID

 

[gravey9]

To continue the conversation at the end of the last thread. I totally get why people would be afraid to lose ADA as PPQB. But, we have LOTS of options to run the PP through a bunch of players now.

In addition to Panarin and Fox, we will Laf. Kakko and Kravtsov who all have the vision to have the PP run through them eventually. We only need one of these guys on each unit plus Fox and any version of Trouba, Lundkvist and (the LD they will trade for).

Unit 1; Panarin, Zib, Kreids, Fox, Laf
Unit 2: Kakko, Kravtsov, Trouba/Lundkvist/LD (Dunn?), Chytil. (Buch, Strome or 2C trade target)

Point is, as awesome as ADA is, there's a LOT of offensive talent on the team. I think we can figure it out.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

@KreiderBomb & @MahomesIsGod

The entire offense was horrendous, Tony for an injured player made some seriously beautiful O plays that none of our players ever put in the net. Tony is not gonna score goals all on his own during a playoff series against a great team, and yes he's gonna get walked on D. We know we are going to just have to deal with that, but I just don't think Troubda or Fox are capable of what Tony is offensively.

And I love Fox and Troubda I really do. I think keeping ADA and Fox for the next 10 years would be unreal and unlike anything we've seen before on our back end in the 'modern era'.

I'm f*ckin very excited, but I hate that you're all right that a few guys are just going to have to go now that we have two young serious game changers coming up in Kakko & Laf and they're going to get PAID

I doubt that Fox will ever be as good on the PP as DeAngelo is. His mobility allows him to open up lanes that Fox just can't open up.

It's not just the PP though, DeAngelo out produced him at 5v5 too while having to carry around the worst regular in the league. If you gave him a better partner who isn't a complete and utter zero in transition or with the puck on his stick, he probably widens that production gap even more.

Fox is the better all around player and will continue to be so, but unless his 5v5 production gets to the point where hes close to tops in the league, he won't match DeAngelo's production with this group.

 

[Leetch3]

On the ada topic...if your concern is offense from the blue line and the pp, then you keep deangelo. Trading him will make us worse in those areas, we can argue how much worse but we will be worse.

but if we are moving him it is based on the idea that we are a better team overall by upgrading other areas even though you are downgrading another

 

[Leetch3]

As much as I love American buch, I think a deal around buch for Elias lindholm knowing that both teams have interest in the other player would be a fantastic trade...

I question though if he’s good enough to give up ada for...my expectations for the return might be too high but I want a future 1c or 1d in return.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I doubt that Fox will ever be as good on the PP as DeAngelo is. His mobility allows him to open up lanes that Fox just can't open up.

It's not just the PP though, DeAngelo out produced him at 5v5 too while having to carry around the worst regular in the league. If you gave him a better partner who isn't a complete and utter zero in transition or with the puck on his stick, he probably widens that production gap even more.

Fox is the better all around player and will continue to be so, but unless his 5v5 production gets to the point where hes close to tops in the league, he won't match DeAngelo's production with this group.

A bunch of counterarguments to make here, but the biggest is that you're rating them both as finished products. Fox is nearly 3 years younger than ADA. And whereas Fox did what he did this year in his first year as a 21-y-o, in '17-'18, Tony went 0-8-8 in 32 games while splitting time in HFD.

 

[LeetchisGod]

On the ada topic...if your concern is offense from the blue line and the pp, then you keep deangelo. Trading him will make us worse in those areas, we can argue how much worse but we will be worse.

but if we are moving him it is based on the idea that we are a better team overall by upgrading other areas even though you are downgrading another

Offense is the least of our problems going forward. We need to get significantly better defensively and become much harder to play against.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

A bunch of counterarguments to make here, but the biggest is that you're rating them both as finished products. Fox is nearly 3 years younger than ADA. And whereas Fox did what he did this year in his first year as a 21-y-o, in '17-'18, Tony went 0-8-8 in 32 games while splitting time in HFD.

The mobility gap will continue to exist though.

And I see your age gap and raise you having to carry around Staal at 5v5

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

@Edge What is far more likely to happen? Trading #22 or keeping #22? I ask because you mentioned the notion of trading #22 in a deal for a guy like Vince Dunn or Jonas Brodin, but you also mentioned how high the Rangers were on Hendrix Lapierre and Ridly Grieg. What is the far more likely scenario?

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

I just wonder why the Flames would trade Lindholm a year after they acquired him as the main asset coming back in a deal for a phenomenal young D in Dougie Hamilton.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Deangelo had sheltered minutes on the 3rd pair while Fox and Trouba did the heavy lifting vs the opposing teams top lines.

 

[gravey9]

The mobility gap will continue to exist though.

And I see your age gap and raise you having to carry around Staal at 5v5

My big concern with moving TDA is what he brings to the PP. I love Fox, but the mix of speed and shot and vision making TDA the more dynamic of the two. Fox lacks a little explosiveness and doesn't always get a ton on his shots from the point. And I think with the facilitators the team will have, it'd be nice if we have at least one D who can always get their shot through with velocity. That may one day be NL as i think this is a strength at least in the SHL. Also depends on who or what we have in our LDs. It's possible that Miller or a trade target can also bring that. Trouba does that and can be used in spots.

 

[Leetch3]

I just wonder why the Flames would trade Lindholm a year after they acquired him as the main asset coming back in a deal for a phenomenal young D in Dougie Hamilton.

because we want him lol

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I just wonder why the Flames would trade Lindholm a year after they acquired him as the main asset coming back in a deal for a phenomenal young D in Dougie Hamilton.

Im doubtful they would...imo they are looking to move Johnny Hockey.

 

[gravey9]

I just wonder why the Flames would trade Lindholm a year after they acquired him as the main asset coming back in a deal for a phenomenal young D in Dougie Hamilton.

This is a valid point. Though I don't quite get Calgary's build in general. They are a better run version of the Minnesota Wild. Always just slightly better than mediocre.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

My big concern with moving TDA is what he brings to the PP. I love Fox, but the mix of speed and shot and vision making TDA the more dynamic of the two. Fox lacks a little explosiveness and doesn't always get a ton on his shots from the point. And I think with the facilitators the team will have, it'd be nice if we have at least one D who can always get their shot through with velocity. That may one day be NL as i think this is a strength at least in the SHL. Also depends on who or what we have in our LDs. It's possible that Miller or a trade target can also bring that. Trouba does that and can be used in spots.

You think our pp will suck with Panarin, Zibanejad, Lafreniere, Kreider, Strome, Fox, Trouba, Kakko and Buch as options? Plus add whatever you get in a trade and eventually Lindqvist, Miller, Jones....i think our pp is the last thing we have to worry about. We need to figure out keeping the puck out of our end, fill holes in our lineup and some grit for playoffs.

 

[gravey9]

You think our pp will suck with Panarin, Zibanejad, Lafreniere, Kreider, Strome, Fox, Trouba, Kakko and Buch as options? Plus add whatever you get in a trade and eventually Lindqvist, Miller, Jones....i think our pp is the last thing we have to worry about. We need to figure out keeping the puck out of our end, fill holes in our lineup and some grit for playoffs.

Nope, didn't say it would suck. And if you read my post from earlier, i've already made your point. Acknowledging the combo of skills/talent TDA brings is in some ways more dangerous than Fox at the moment. He has the shot, vision and skating that makes him more dynamic on the PP than any other D we have. And it's Lundkvist.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

My big concern with moving TDA is what he brings to the PP. I love Fox, but the mix of speed and shot and vision making TDA the more dynamic of the two. Fox lacks a little explosiveness and doesn't always get a ton on his shots from the point. And I think with the facilitators the team will have, it'd be nice if we have at least one D who can always get their shot through with velocity. That may one day be NL as i think this is a strength at least in the SHL. Also depends on who or what we have in our LDs. It's possible that Miller or a trade target can also bring that. Trouba does that and can be used in spots.

For sure, but otoh I think thats a role that Laf can fill eventually.

I'd rather have him in the Strome spot but hes worked the point before and he's great at opening up lanes.

Deangelo had sheltered minutes on the 3rd pair while Fox and Trouba did the heavy lifting vs the opposing teams top lines.

DeAngelo's percentage of 5v5 ice time vs elite competition: 40%
Fox's percentage of 5v5 ice time vs elite competition: 43%

Now Fox did start to draw those assignments more often as the season went on, but lets not act like he was getting the heaviest and hardest minutes all season. He wasn't.

At 40% is not like DeAngelo was heavily sheltered either.

 

[Savant]

Im doubtful they would...imo they are looking to move Johnny Hockey.

Would rather have Lindholm

 

[gravey9]

For sure, but otoh I think thats a role that Laf can fill eventually.

I'd rather have him in the Strome spot but hes worked the point before and he's great at opening up lanes.

To further this point, I noticed in a bunch of the footage that Laf wasn't only playing the half-wall, but often playing the top of the umbrella. Meaning, he was in the D spot. And we was wicked dangerous from there because he has a great shot. And to give him both sides of theice to pass to with his deceptiveness is eye-opening. But I can't imagine the Rangers letting him take that spot for a long time. It's a big liability defensively, even on the PP to have the forward in that spot. But absolutely should replace Strome once he's comfortable in the league.

 

[Krams]

Nope, didn't say it would suck. And if you read my post from earlier, i've already made your point. Acknowledging the combo of skills/talent TDA brings is in some ways more dangerous than Fox at the moment. He has the shot, vision and skating that makes him more dynamic on the PP than any other D we have. And it's Lundkvist.

I think it's a fair point that ADA brings a dynamic to the PP that Fox is not capable of replicating but it's really the least of my concerns. There's so much talent on the powerplay that if we're not a top-10 team in that regard then there's a problem with strategy and not personnel.

 

[NYR Viper]

For a deal with Calgary you’re probably looking at either:

Buch + for Lindholm

Or

ADA for Lindholm +

I’d be good with either as the basis for a deal. Maybe something like:

Buch + Georgiev for Lindholm

or

ADA for Lindholm + Bennett


the guy I am most curious about is Strome. What type of value does he have around the league. He showed this year he can play a top-6 center role this year and he can raise his level to compliment an elite player. Teams that have issues attracting UFA’s may be of interest. Say, Montreal, Buffalo, Dallas. I’d be inclined to look at picks and maybe a nice depth forward. @Edge had Strome as the most likely to be moved.

 

[RGY]

Buch + 3rd round pick for Lindholm ? Is that enough? Their offensive outputs might be similar for next season. But Lindholm can play center.

What will it take to come away with Dunn.

Lafreniere-Zib-Kreider
Panarin-Lindholm-Strome

Dunn-Trouba
Lindgren-Fox
Reunanen-DeAngelo
Staal

Bottom 6 still TBD. Really want to see them add a vet center. And really want them to look at Josh Anderson as well.